Souness must go ?

[Tango]

All those calling for Souness to be sacked I would point in the direction of Sunderland last season. Peter Reid had worked wonders with Sunderland getting them to the Premiership and keeping them there. 8 games in (can't remember if that's right) they sack him. By the end of the season they had had 2 new managers, amassed the record lowest number of points ever in the Premiership and been on the longest losing streak of any Premiership club ever. A change isn't always the solution and Souness has proved over the years that he can manage a football club with a considerable amount of success. Save the 'Sack Souness' drivel for after the challenging games ahead - there, I believe, will be the proof in the pudding that Souness is still the right man for the job.

[RoyRover]

Things will change, however I'm still concerned abot Souness. Sky Sports reported that Souness was so angry that he wouldn't do an interview. Tony Parks has said that he is at his lowest since coming here.

[rover6]

All those calling for Souness to be sacked I would point in the direction of Sunderland last season. Peter Reid had worked wonders with Sunderland getting them to the Premiership and keeping them there. 8 games in (can't remember if that's right) they sack him. By the end of the season they had had 2 new managers, amassed the record lowest number of points ever in the Premiership and been on the longest losing streak of any Premiership club ever. A change isn't always the solution and Souness has proved over the years that he can manage a football club with a considerable amount of success. Save the 'Sack Souness' drivel for after the challenging games ahead - there, I believe, will be the proof in the pudding that Souness is still the right man for the job.

You make a good point.

BUT

Sunderland did not have a team as good as ours. I.e they did not spend £7 million on a central midfielder.

Peter Reid had a dreadful end to the season before, in preseason they lost most of their games to nobodies and in his final season they were equally rubbish.

Sunderland brought in Howard Wilkinson. A football dinosaur.

[Nelsta]

souness please stay..................souness souness please stay.................souness please stay..........souness souness please stay

[Walls]

You make a good point.

BUT

Sunderland did not have a team as good as ours. I.e they did not spend £7 million on a central midfielder.

Peter Reid had a dreadful end to the season before, in preseason they lost most of their games to nobodies and in his final season they were equally rubbish.

Sunderland brought in Howard Wilkinson. A football dinosaur.

They didn't spend £7m on a midfielder but they did spend £7m on a striker in Tore Andre Flo and also £4m + on Marcus Stewart.  Add that to the players such as Phillips, Mccan, Gray and Sorensen and they did have the basis of a good team.

How can Souness be blamed for the result yesterday?  The fault has to lie with the players.  We had enough possesion to win 3 matches let alone 1.  Our strikers missed easy chances and you can't blame that on Souness.

[rover6]

Like I said, it's a psychological thing - Souness may not be a bad manager, but the players need a change to freshen things. Hearing the same voices everyday in training and matchdays can become monotonous and stale.

Like at Old Trafford you mean??  

Do I have to spell it out?

At Man U, Ferguson is obviously such a good manager that he can keep his players on their toes year after year.

In special circumstances, a highly rated manager suddenly sees his team in terminal decline that he cannot alter. It's when that sets in that he must get the boot regardless of his achievements.

Examples: George Burley - took Ipswich into 5th or 6th - next season spent money (£5 million on a GK Matteo Sereni) and relegates them. Had the Town board not been sentimental and blinkered by Burley's past achievements, relegation could have been averted.

Bryan Robson - Took Boro to cup finals but suddenly a season comes along where they're awful and can't win a match. Surely they're heading down if Steve Gibson doesn't sack Robson. What do they do? Bring in Venables to right things before it's too late. He saves them.

Glenn Roeder - the WH board stuck doggedly with the man who took them into the top seven. Next season their loyalty is rewarded by relegation.

My point being - big slumps can sometimes have no solution but to sack the manager. I would sack some of the players but seeing as that's not possible, Souness has to go.

[roversactive]

All those calling for Souness to be sacked I would point in the direction of Sunderland last season. Peter Reid had worked wonders with Sunderland getting them to the Premiership and keeping them there. 8 games in (can't remember if that's right) they sack him. By the end of the season they had had 2 new managers, amassed the record lowest number of points ever in the Premiership and been on the longest losing streak of any Premiership club ever. A change isn't always the solution and Souness has proved over the years that he can manage a football club with a considerable amount of success. Save the 'Sack Souness' drivel for after the challenging games ahead - there, I believe, will be the proof in the pudding that Souness is still the right man for the job.

You make a good point.

BUT

Sunderland did not have a team as good as ours. I.e they did not spend £7 million on a central midfielder.

Peter Reid had a dreadful end to the season before, in preseason they lost most of their games to nobodies and in his final season they were equally rubbish.

Sunderland brought in Howard Wilkinson. A football dinosaur.

Rover6, i backed you up when people where on your backs, i found it laughable that (in your opinion) you wanted the Plymouth manager, but now some of your opinions are just outright Stupid!

Pre-season is nothing - results don't matter, fitness does.

As it happens, that £7 million midfielder is starting to show his worth and will become a class act for Rovers.

Funny how you think Sunderland had a bad squad, yet it was the same squad at finished high in the table the year before.

Peter Reid was Sunderland's only chance, and getting rid so early was a mistake that almost earnt them the worst amount of games without a win ever, losing out to Accy Stanley by one.

Getting rid of Souness won't do us any favours right now. Some people have the memory span of a fish, we were around the Relegation zone most of the 20001/02 season yet we finisehd 9th and won the Worthington cup, the following season we finished 6th. Our squad wouldnt be any better with Dunn right now, obviously Duff but he missed meny games last season. Dunn no longer showed any passion for the club, despite it being his boyhood club.

Could i also point out that we had less points at this stage in the 1996/97 season. 4 points from 11 games and our final league position was 13th.

Come May 2004 this will be in Message Bord Gold and Rover6 will be looking back thinking "What a fool i made myself look"  

[rover6]

How can Souness be blamed for the result yesterday?  The fault has to lie with the players.  We had enough possesion to win 3 matches let alone 1.  Our strikers missed easy chances and you can't blame that on Souness.

The fault may lie with the players - what are we going to do about that? Keeping with the current set up and continuing to lose match after match? Fining, insulting, screaming, crying, begging is not going to give the players confidence.

It's obvious that the players are not responding to the manager. What are we going to do about that - Sack the boss.

[rover6]

Pre-season is nothing - results don't matter, fitness does.

Which is why Sunderland fans poured beer over Reid after another preseason defeat to an obscure Belgian team.

Sunderland fans were disillusioned with Reid well before the start of that ill-fated season. It wasn't Peter Reid that took Sunderland into the top 7. It was the dynamic Niall Quinn - Phillips partnership and the fact they were riding the crest of a positive wave following promotion.

[Radagast]

Who cares what Sunderland fans did? What does it have to do with us? To say something like two players being the sole reason a club had a successful season is nothing short of idiotic, really sums up about everything else you've said since joining this board full of old men that you hate posting on. 175 posts of smug, contradictory bullsh**.

[philipl]

rover6, you are becoming tiresome.

By the same logic you are advocating, ManU should have dumped Ferguson in 91/2 and presumably Bobby Robson should have gone from Newcastle in mid-September when they were out of the Champs League, in a relegation spot and that bunch of scoundrels he collected up there were spending as much time in Police Stations as on the training ground?

It is not inconceivable that Souness could be dismissed deservedly. But now is not the time to be debating the point. Souness and the club deserve our total support to cheer them through this rough patch.

PS Roversactive, Sunderland fell one short of equalling Darwen's record run of consequetive defeats. Rovers are twelve defeats short of equalling that record! Even if we do, equal that record, there would still be 15 games left and 45 points to play for this season.

[roversactive]

Pre-season is nothing - results don't matter, fitness does.

Which is why Sunderland fans poured beer over Reid after another preseason defeat to an obscure Belgian team.

Sunderland fans were disillusioned with Reid well before the start of that ill-fated season. It wasn't Peter Reid that took Sunderland into the top 7. It was the dynamic Niall Quinn - Phillips partnership and the fact they were riding the crest of a positive wave following promotion.

anyone who thinks pre-season suggests how well the team will do in the league needs help! The obscure wouldnt stand a chance against them in a competitive match, indeed in the Premiership.

Reid needed time, not hesitance.

are you telling me Phillips and Quinn never went training, they where never motivated by Pete Reid??

3 managers in a season doesnt work fo r a club fighting relegation as we well know.

[den]

In special circumstances, a highly rated manager suddenly sees his team in terminal decline that he cannot alter. It's when that sets in that he must get the boot regardless of his achievements.

The key word rover6 - terminal!

If everyone on here thought the decline was terminal, you would get a lot more backing for your views.

The problem for JW and the fans is: how do you know when it's terminal? If it's something that can be corrected, would you still sack Souness?

A straight answer please.

[Morph]

Rover6, do you not think that, given all he has achieved for the club, Souness has at the very least earned the right to try and dig Rovers out of the hole we are currently in? This is not a question of sentimentality speaking, but respect. Since taking over Souness has led us to promotion, cup glory and European football (however briefly) two seasons running. To sack him for a poor start to the season would be a monumental injustice in my book. If we are still mired in the bottom three at christmas then there may be a better case for a change of manager (who would then still have enough games to put things right, considering the quality at their disposal) but to be arguing for one at the start of November is premature in the extreme.

[rover6]

Well I think we're in terminal decline because whatever the manager says to them, the players just go out and lose.

He's tried all manner of formations and permutations. Nothing seems to work. That is my defenition of a club in terminal decline.

[Alan75]

Dont panic

[broadsword]

Well I think we're in terminal decline because whatever the manager says to them, the players just go out and lose.

He's tried all manner of formations and permutations. Nothing seems to work. That is my defenition of a club in terminal decline.

5 losses on the spin and we're in terminal decline?

Absolute and utter pap.

If that was true, what would you say has happened to QPR, Sheff Wed, Luton (good in the Eighties!), Oxford (days of Ray Houghton and Dean Saunders) and Notts County (they were in the top flight for a season not so long ago).

Terminal decline means that the club goes kaput, it doesn't recover. Out of the clubs I've mentioned there, I think only Notts County come close to terminal decline.

You seem to fit the facts to your argument all the time, it gets a bit tiresome after a while.

[Simon Says]

One thing I noticed over the weekend is that the saviour rover6 has in mind for us Paul Sturrock could not lead his Plymouth side to a victory against 9 man Oldham.

Obviously he is the tactical genius that we are crying out for.  

[Tarka]

Rover6. I admire your undeterred, single-minded, tunnel-vision campaign on this fine message-board to rid the Rovers of Souness but all you are succeeding in doing is uniting the majority of the members.

[jim mk2]

Interesting to see that Crystal Palace gave Steve Kember the chop today after the club slipped to 20th place in the first division.

Simon Jordan, the chairman, said that results had been unacceptable and he had to act before it was too late. Quite right too.

How long do we have to wait before the Rovers board acts? After the Everton game, and another defeat? December? January? When?

Souness's position is very close to becoming untenable now, but to wait too long for results to improve is inviting disaster.  In my opinion, the club should tell Souness that he has three games to turn the situation round: if he does not, then he will have to go.

Of course, Souness could tender his resignation before then, but I doubt if his pride and arrogance will allow him to do that.

[booth]

My main beef with Souness was that he got rid of Berg, one of our most consistent members of the team who seemed to be able to get some order out of players such as Taylor and Gresko. I mean, what the hell was Gresko doing yesterday???

That and he brought in no players pre-season that were proven in the premiership despite losing Duff, Berg and Dunn. Duff and Berg being the greater losses.

That said, I would hate to see Souness go. I think we have a top manager in Souness and have enjoyed a good few seasons with him at the helm. I just hope he can turn it around before we get into a relegation battle. Maybe he will take advantage of the transfer window and strengthen the defence.

[den]

How long do we have to wait before the Rovers board acts? After the Everton game, and another defeat? December? January? When?

God help any new manager who finds rovers in the bottom three. Instant dismissal Jim?

We'll go through them faster than light travel

[RovertheHill]

I have to say I don't agree with all the "Souness must go" threads, but I remember back to 98/99 thinking the same thing about Hodgson.  Eventually my view turned but looking back Kidd was a disaster.

To all those arguing for a change, who would you suggest? (that is available, or is likely to be to a club like Rovers)  I'm struggling to think of anybody decent

[trueblue]

My main beef with Souness was that he got rid of Berg

Get it right... He didn't get rid of Berg, Berg got rid of himself by refusing a contract extension.

[modes98]

I do not think we should get rid of soui

but in answer to that question i would put Paul Hart at teh top of any list.