Souness must go ?

[Clive]

The Irish bloke with the wellies.

Of course Jim Davidson would be out of the question to replace Souness, as he'd offend Tugay, Andy Cole and Dwight Yorke within about 3 minutes of arriving. And the players will get bored of Julian Clary's 'balls into the box' remarks very rapidly, whilst Bobby Davro's Wurzel Gummage impersinations will look very dated.

[Nuclearsox]

The Irish bloke with the wellies.

It would be a stark contrast to Souness.

Imagine if a referreeing decision went against us. Instead of Souey remonstrating, swearing and waving his arms about we'd have "Hey ref! .... C'm 'ere"

[Ste B]

The Irish bloke with the wellies.

Of course Jim Davidson would be out of the question to replace Souness, as he'd offend Tugay, Andy Cole and Dwight Yorke within about 3 minutes of arriving.

Jim Davidson would refuse to be the manager due to the Wheelchairs on the front row.

[Grimshaw]

Jack Dee as his unimpressed expression would be something our supporters could empathise with! :'>

[S15]

Has this thread now reached the point where Jim Davidson is being touted as the replacement for Souness?

[Clive]

I'm not touting or promoting Jim Davidson to be manager . Anyway, he'll take over at Burnley with Jethro as assistant.

[Neil Weaver]

Has this thread now reached the point where Jim Davidson is being touted as the replacement for Souness?

Stop it right now.  You'll be putting ideas into the head of jim mk 2.

[chris]

Jim Davidson's not even funny, i could go on stage with my "101 great jokes" book and be more funny then him, Strachan there's a really funny man

[1864roverite]

whilst enduring a tortuous drive through Blackpool, then Preston and then home to sunny Leyland I couldnt be arsed listening to radio 5, talksport or even whether or not fathead dixie has escaped from debenhams window so I turned my thoughts to my beloved team and the reasons why we dont seem to be in the market for "named" players especially after unloading some dead wood.

Okay i know being a town club, added to the fact that Sir JW is no longer with us, the current state of home attendences, the cost of wages etc but still I couoldnt really add it up when it came to spending money on say the likes of Nicky Butt and VChris Sutton.

Then one blinding thought shot across my furrowed forehead.

Are the Rovers considering sacking Mr Souness and at the same time are they trying to force him out by the tightening of the purse strings ?

The reasoning I came to is this. We know Rovers received in excess of 20 million squid in incoming fees, we know we only spent around 6.8 million on incoming players. We know we saved a decent amount of wages on deadwood and we also know we wasted money on the likes of Baggio.

Even if you added this to our current and expected state of affairs next week when it is expected the club will announce a deficit of 12 million (NOT including transfer fees), we know that Rovers paid off 6 million to the trustees last year and we further know they did the same this year, it still leaves a fairly decent amount unaccounted for.

I understand the wage bill to turnover ratio is around 78 percent and by the middle of May is expected to drop to around 59 per cent. But if you go along and say that Rovers will finish say 15th in the league that still proves around 6.9 million in prize money.

if you summise and assume the figures are round about then you have a decent sum of around 9 million floating in the club accounts. Surely half that amount is spendable and may even be paid for if the club jumped upto 12th in the league, a position that even now is a more than realistic goal.

it all says to me there is an underlying problem with the outlay on players. If it isn't then the club are surely well down the line of preparing an exit to div 1 for next year.

anyone agree ?

[CAPT KAYOS]

whilst enduring a tortuous drive through Blackpool, then Preston and then home to sunny Leyland I couldnt be arsed listening to radio 5, talksport or even whether or not fathead dixie has escaped from debenhams window so I turned my thoughts to my beloved team and the reasons why we dont seem to be in the market for "named" players especially after unloading some dead wood.

Okay i know being a town club, added to the fact that Sir JW is no longer with us, the current state of home attendences, the cost of wages etc but still I couoldnt really add it up when it came to spending money on say the likes of Nicky Butt and VChris Sutton.

Then one blinding thought shot across my furrowed forehead.

Are the Rovers considering sacking Mr Souness and at the same time are they trying to force him out by the tightening of the purse strings ?

The reasoning I came to is this. We know Rovers received in excess of 20 million squid in incoming fees, we know we only spent around 6.8 million on incoming players. We know we saved a decent amount of wages on deadwood and we also know we wasted money on the likes of Baggio.

Even if you added this to our current and expected state of affairs next week when it is expected the club will announce a deficit of 12 million (NOT including transfer fees), we know that Rovers paid off 6 million to the trustees last year and we further know they did the same this year, it still leaves a fairly decent amount unaccounted for.

I understand the wage bill to turnover ratio is around 78 percent and by the middle of May is expected to drop to around 59 per cent. But if you go along and say that Rovers will finish say 15th in the league that still proves around 6.9 million in prize money.

if you summise and assume the figures are round about then you have a decent sum of around 9 million floating in the club accounts. Surely half that amount is spendable and may even be paid for if the club jumped upto 12th in the league, a position that even now is a more than realistic goal.

it all says to me there is an underlying problem with the outlay on players. If it isn't then the club are surely well down the line of preparing an exit to div 1 for next year.

anyone agree ?

Sort of 1864 but not as in depth as you.

There is something definitely amiss behind the scenes, or at least appears to be which I have stated previously - the thing is What? Things keep being said or happening that I think why and the lack of bums on seats seems to be the only major thing the club seems to be worrying about.

IMO I don't think they are trying to force Souness to walk but I do think they are preparing in a roundabout way for the drop

[Paul]

IMO I don't think they are trying to force Souness to walk but I do think they are preparing in a roundabout way for the drop

I would hope they are preparing for the drop in some way. If, and it is still IF no matter how bad I feel, we go down and if the club have not been making sensible provisions in the last few months we will have an huge financial problem to resolve. There won't be any PL wages being paid in the Nationwide this time round.

The lack of signings may well be a large part of this despite the arguement that a few £m now could earn £20m by staying in the PL.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Sobering thoughts indeed

[The Producer]

I understand the wage bill to turnover ratio is around 78 percent and by the middle of May is expected to drop to around 59 per cent. But if you go along and say that Rovers will finish say 15th in the league that still proves around 6.9 million in prize money.

Are you sure about this?  I've never heard of a club managing to reduce its wage bill by that, much in the course of one summer, especially as we'll get millions less in prize money for coming (optimistically) midtable rather than 6th.  Or does this mean all of our best players (or none of them, but everyone else) are out of contract in the summer?

[USABlue]

The reasoning I came to is this. We know Rovers received in excess of 20 million squid in incoming fees,

But yer Squid doesn't buy what it used to, unless you go shopping in the Asian market.

You could actually be close to the truth there 1864, but I don't think it is a case of him being fired.  I think if anything it would be a case of Souness retiring, the board wishing to hold funds for the new man to start building his team as he sees fit.

 Nationwide Football does not beat thinking about we all know the clubs feelings on that but we must be prepared should the drop happen.  Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

[1864roverite]

I think its something to do with the bonus payments and accruements levied and contracted up until the end of this current season. I am not exactly sure how or where that figure came from but on the back of three successful seasons the bounties are now paid up, hence freeing a considerable amount of money within the club from the wage structure.

I think I read somewhere - possibly The Indepenant - that rovers along with charlton,brum,everton,liverpool and boro will be the only clubs operating under 60% of turnover by the beginning of next year (thats if we are still in the PL).

Interesting though to see NUFC operaating currently at 75% and hopeful of dropping to 70% as well as spending around 20 million on new players, stadium upgrade and purchasing of two nearby buildings. They have been operating for 18 months at 85% then a nervous 80% before being saved by a similar measure as in place at BRFC.

of course these figures are not exactly bang on as I dont know the real source of the basic information but it seems that a very good business plan was in place for the promotion season and that if we had a reasonably bad year - this is it obviously - then plans were also made for that.

I am still concerned regarding the closure of the purse strings and whether or not we have a longer term in waiting for Mr Souness.

personally i would love to see him be given more time and money to improve what I consider a decent team, it just needs a slight bit of tinkering with to make it a good team.

[graysmark]

I agree with you to an extent 1864 about this Souness debacle, and why there seems to be no movement by Rovers to improve the position in the league.  I also have a feeling like the board are preparing for something come the summer, but what that is, i have no idea.  I dont think its them preparing for the drop as of yet, becuase if you remember in our first season back, our prospects were a lot grimmer, and the board were more than willing to stump up sufficient cash for our survival.  That either means they are expecting a new arrival in the summer, whom would replace a perhaps retiring Souness, or a restructure of the team, by offloading players like Yorke, Tugay, and players of a similar ilk who are either becoming too old, too lazy or both.  I have no idea which of the two is a stronger possibility, but my head seems to think both actually, with Souness announcing his retirement towards the end of the season, and a new manager revamping a new style of Rovers.

Why do i think that??? Well, i honestly think the Souness Express is starting to run out of steam, and somethings needs freshening up.

[American]

I agree with you to an extent 1864 about this Souness debacle, and why there seems to be no movement by Rovers to improve the position in the league.  I also have a feeling like the board are preparing for something come the summer, but what that is, i have no idea.  I dont think its them preparing for the drop as of yet, becuase if you remember in our first season back, our prospects were a lot grimmer, and the board were more than willing to stump up sufficient cash for our survival.  That either means they are expecting a new arrival in the summer, whom would replace a perhaps retiring Souness, or a restructure of the team, by offloading players like Yorke, Tugay, and players of a similar ilk who are either becoming too old, too lazy or both.  I have no idea which of the two is a stronger possibility, but my head seems to think both actually, with Souness announcing his retirement towards the end of the season, and a new manager revamping a new style of Rovers.

Why do i think that??? Well, i honestly think the Souness Express is starting to run out of steam, and somethings needs freshening up.

I've always felt (hoped?) they'd be revamping the strike force in the summer, getting rid of Cole and Yorke and bringing in 3 new, younger strikers. That's why I'm not sure they really tried their hardest to get McBride.

[RevidgeBlue]

Don't know about everyone else but I am left feeling devastated by the fact that we have been left standing by a club only in their second season back in the Premiership. If Birmingham are in there making an outrageously low £3m bid for Butt why aren't we?

Similarly the refusal to even countenance a bid for Sutton (three players in one) at £1.5m didn't make much sense either. Would have boosted attendances and morale for the rest of this season and if it had helped stem the inevitable haemmorage of season ticket renewals in the summer, the deal would have been self financing.

Personally I don't want Souness to be given any more money to waste on unproven "never seen them play before's" or thirty somethings and it would be almost reassuring to think that Jersey have pulled the plug on the funding for Souness rather than for any successor due to his questionable use of the Duff/Dunn money but doubt that is the case really.

Perhaps they are of the view that we need to get more out of the players we have already (which is fair comment) and make better use of the Academy (which is  definitely fair comment)

One final thought on this, has GS been definitively ruled out of the running for taking over at Spurs in the summer?

[rover6]

One final thought on this, has GS been definitively ruled out of the running for taking over at Spurs in the summer?

No, but it's increasingly unlikely to happen.

Spurs want a European type man, who'll be 'Head Coach' rather than 'manager'. Difference being, the head coach works with the players but doesn't have the final say on player signings. That, I suspect, will be the job of Pleat as Director of Football.

Souness doesn't strike me as someone who'll be happy to take that role. (You though Hoddle and Pleat was a pairing made in Hell).

RevBlu, we simply can't afford Butt. His wages are likely to astronomical, even if he takes a cut, and £3 million we don't have. Birmingham can bid in the knowledge they'll have the financial perks of staying in the Premiership next season.

Our board cannot be sure of which league we'll be in, so we can't spend massive money when our income could be slashed dramatically next year IF we end up in the nationwide.

Our survival depends on loan deals. But it does look as if Souness hasn't got a plan B following the collapse of the McBride deal.

[Eddie]

Mr negativity speaks again

[RevidgeBlue]

RevBlu, we simply can't afford Butt. His wages are likely to astronomical, even if he takes a cut, and £3 million we don't have. Birmingham can bid in the knowledge they'll have the financial perks of staying in the Premiership next season.

Butt would cost at the very most half the transfer fee now, and half in 12 months, and in the event we did go down he could easily be sold for roughly what we paid for him.

If we go down it'll be £20m "we don't have" not just £3m.

[Blue blood]

To be fair the squad we've got is good enough to stay up. All we need is a spark to get the confidence back, like the Worthington Cup. Other than Cole, admittedly a big influence, it was the same squad who'd been struggling who got us out of the mess we were in.

So if Souey could get the squad to pull together then, he should be able to do it now. One or two good results and we should get the season back on track. Only problem is when we're going to get that win to begin the run.

As for Tottenham? If Souness moved it would be for a better job not worse.

[broadsword]

Butt would cost at the very most half the transfer fee now, and half in 12 months, and in the event we did go down he could easily be sold for roughly what we paid for him.

If we go down it'll be £20m "we don't have" not just £3m.

of course!

That's the way it works: "Mr Williams, your team's been relegated and you're desperate for cash, tell you what, we'll give you roughly what you paid for Nicky Butt to buy him off you."

Rollocks!

Spurs have offered just 5 mill for Milner and Robinson. Is that what they're worth, even in a depressed market? Nein.

Is Nicky Butt the man to propel us up the table? We need a left-winger and a striker.

Birmingham have been bank-rolled by the Gold Brothers. We appear to have no cash forthcoming from Jersey and have the second-lowest attendances in the division. It looks like we can't afford to spend 3 mill even if we're in this division next season. Bit of a difference. Have you not seen JW's comments earlier this week?

And what's all this about being left standing by a team only in their second season in the Prem, how dramatic! We're only in our third!

I think we've had this discussion before and I think I said something like if 3 mill can guarantee us Prem football next year, whereas 0 mill will see us relegated, we have to spend. Are we going to go down with what we have, and would buying Nicky Butt be the difference? I don't think so, can't remember him scoring too many goals, although he might help keep some out.

[RevidgeBlue]

I think we've had this discussion before and I think I said something like if 3 mill can guarantee us Prem football next year, whereas 0 mill will see us relegated, we have to spend. Are we going to go down with what we have, and would buying Nicky Butt be the difference? I don't think so, can't remember him scoring too many goals, although he might help keep some out.

So therein, (semantics apart) you entirely contradict the rest of your post. You know perfectly well you can never 100% guarantee anything but you can give yourself the best possible chance.

Doesn't really matter whether one person thinks we need Butt, another thinks we need a striker, another a left winger.

We aren't doing enough to improve any area of the team.

[broadsword]

You can't 100% guarantee anything, so will spending 3 mill on Butt significantly alter our chances of avoiding relegation? We can't speak with certainty, but we can talk of probabilities.

You obviously think we should sign him, you must think he'll make a difference.

Maybe you should stick some of your own money in, your relentless criticism of how other people should be spending their money gets me a bit down in the mouth!

I'd love us to go out and spend 10 mill and transform the team, but it ain't going to happen is it?