Souness must go ?

[atc]

i've been behind Souness because of his injuries and bad luck, we have the same number of poor players on the wagebill as any other team, but.................why are charlton and bolton better than us defensively and technically more solid and liable to pick points up more often than us, i look at their teamshheets and there are only 3 or 4 players i'd want in our team. I can't see us holding on to a lead even with all our current defenders fit...................i could go on whinging, i just think a fresh face coming in with no loyalties to any of the players with a new approach is best, i can't see us becoming a safe and solid premiership team in future seasons with souness in charge

[Alan75]

Seeing that atc brought this topic back to the top, we might as well merge this one and the Souness topic.

[Gav]

Gav

what on EARTH do we have to be positive about?  Give it a few months and we'll be in the same position as we were in when Kidd left.  Our performances are already as bad.

Well Jan we could be:

100+million in debt like Leeds

Close to administration like Bradford and bumley

Languishing at the foot of division 3 like Carlisle

Believe me things could be worse, allot worse.....

[thenodrog]

I think the problem is when you do look at Souness' transfer record is that he does not seem to 'add value' to any of his signings.  Where are the Bergs, Sherwoods, Lesaux s, etc.  Possibly some chance with Stead.  But the side at Charlton were all pretty much what you could call his 'team', who has he improved since they arrived?

Thats a ridiculous comparison.  How can anybody add value to any player when the entire market has recently undergone such devaluation?  In the 90's year on year inflation of footballers values was meteoric.  How else could we smash the British transfer market twice with Shearer and Sutton and then quintuple Shearer's cost and double Sutty's in just 4 or 5 years?  

MU are hardly likely to draw £150 million for Rio next year are they?

Sure history tells us that Kenny was generally brilliant in the transfer market but even he still committed a number of ricks.  Have you forgotten the likes of Corbett, Shearer, Makel, Witsche etc?

[BRFC4EVA]

Why is thread even active anymore. After every flipping defeat it comes back. Oh yeah and Jan, i hate Rangers too so dont worry about it!  

[tcj_jones]

jesus, i finally thought this thread was gone for good, slipping down the lists of threads as far as it did. now here it is again to annoy us all and incite arguements over criticsms of souness that are totally inept and inaccurate. as a huge fan of souness i have argued his case on many occasions on ths thread and each criticsm has been dismissed in turn.

but as im a sad B****** il do it again. reid was an excellent and highly rated winger for millwall, capable of playing on the left and has played but a handful of games this season. it is short sighted to label him as being rubbish and when he did play he wasnt all that bad. it will always be hard to replace somebody of duffs calibre and souness hasnt managed to do it. what souness has managed to acheive is a far deeper and more talented squad with half of the transfer funds we received in the summer.

which brings me on to dunn... first of all, the sale of dunn really hasnt left the squad depleted considering we brought in ferguson who is a far more complete and taleneted midfielder for just 2million more the dunn was sold for and that central midfield is by far our most competetive position. then you have to consider the huge losses weve sustained from injury... also, could you please explain how dunn was treated disgracefully? cos i fail to understand how he was...

[RevidgeBlue]

what souness has managed to acheive is a far deeper and more talented squad with half of the transfer funds we received in the summer.

Without wishing to fall out, as you are so consistently outspoken on the matter, what's your view on why we are  then languishing in 15th position as opposed to last season's 6th?

[tcj_jones]

indeed i should close my very large gob a lot of the time but this is my opinion on why we are languishing in 15th place as opposed to last seasons 6th...

first off the sale of duff has had huge reprecussions. last season he was out for a long period and his return saw a flurry of goals, which on occasion won us matches, and a subsequent rapid rise up the table.  the absense of such a hugely influential player has upset the balance of the team and has made us lose our left sided attacking impetus. blackburn simply did not have the appeal or frinances to lure an equally talented left sided midfielder to the club and there were few available to him.

second, injuries have ravished the team. the loss of ferguson has seen us lose our creativity and solidity, especially as he was starting to play some amazing football up until his injury. in addition to this, the loss of thompson saw us lose a versatile and extremely talented midfielder as well as depth in midfield. reids latest injury has left us down to bear threads on the left side of midfield and players have been pulled out of position to help cover, upsetting the balance of the team. in defence is where we have had the most trouble and a large part of this can be attributed to the injury of short who is a rock at the back. these injuries have seen us unable to maintain a consistent back four and this has created a lack of understanding and experience playing together.

thirdly certain players just havent performed as they have been expected, as they did last season or because of a general decline with age, andy cole being a prime example of all three. after a flurry of goals in the early part of the season, cole has scored just once in a hell of a lotmof games ans has often been criticised for his lack of effort. yorke has been largely abysmal and has showed very little to be praised. tugay is also beginning to show a decline and has made numerous costly mistakes. friedal, admittedly is a superb keeper and last season was phenominal. however, this season while playing adequately, with exception of the last month or so when he has made some outstanding saves, he has not performed to the same standard he did last season.

thats my opinion in any case...

[jim mk2]

indeed i should close my very large gob a lot of the time but this is my opinion on why we are languishing in 15th place as opposed to last seasons 6th...

first off the sale of duff has had huge reprecussions. last season he was out for a long period and his return saw a flurry of goals, which on occasion won us matches, and a subsequent rapid rise up the table.  the absense of such a hugely influential player has upset the balance of the team and has made us lose our left sided attacking impetus. blackburn simply did not have the appeal or frinances to lure an equally talented left sided midfielder to the club and there were few available to him.

second, injuries have ravished the team. the loss of ferguson has seen us lose our creativity and solidity, especially as he was starting to play some amazing football up until his injury. in addition to this, the loss of thompson saw us lose a versatile and extremely talented midfielder as well as depth in midfield. reids latest injury has left us down to bear threads on the left side of midfield and players have been pulled out of position to help cover, upsetting the balance of the team. in defence is where we have had the most trouble and a large part of this can be attributed to the injury of short who is a rock at the back. these injuries have seen us unable to maintain a consistent back four and this has created a lack of understanding and experience playing together.

thirdly certain players just havent performed as they have been expected, as they did last season or because of a general decline with age, andy cole being a prime example of all three. after a flurry of goals in the early part of the season, cole has scored just once in a hell of a lotmof games ans has often been criticised for his lack of effort. yorke has been largely abysmal and has showed very little to be praised. tugay is also beginning to show a decline and has made numerous costly mistakes. friedal, admittedly is a superb keeper and last season was phenominal. however, this season while playing adequately, with exception of the last month or so when he has made some outstanding saves, he has not performed to the same standard he did last season.

thats my opinion in any case...

All those reasons for our dismal showing this season and not one mention of the poor transfer buys/team selections/tactics/motivational abilities (or not) of our illustrious manager.

Something wrong methinks.

[RevidgeBlue]

Fair do's tcj!   Always like someone who can argue their case whether you agree with it or not.

Personally I would summarise all that as a particularly bad decision at Boardroom level to sell Duff. No-one signed on the left side to replace him. A poor choice being made to replace Berg with Amoruso. Dunn's replacement (Emerton) being very disappointing. The players bought with part of the Duff money (Reid and Ferguson) starting to look reasonably promising after a very slow start but then getting injured.

Agree completely that various players haven't performed as you would expect at different times. Gresko, Neill and Taylor being other obvious cases in point in addition to the players we've already mentioned.

[tcj_jones]

All those reasons for our dismal showing this season and not one mention of the poor transfer buys/team selections/tactics/motivational abilities (or not) of our illustrious manager.

once more that is an opinion, as is mine, but is an opinion i dont agree with im afraid. motivation not only lies within the manager but within the captain and the team. as we finished 6th last season with much of the same personnell i do not believe this can be attributed to our dismal showing, nor can it be placed simply on the manager. in addition to this, i have failed to note many noteable flaws in tactics, would be happy to listen to those you have seen. finally, largely i have agreed with souness' team selections considering the extent of our injuries and the experience of souness as a tactician and manager.

RevidgeBlue Posted on Feb. 24 2004, 01:09

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fair do's tcj!   Always like someone who can argue their case whether you agree with it or not.

Personally I would summarise all that as a particularly bad decision at Boardroom level to sell Duff. No-one signed on the left side to replace him. A poor choice being made to replace Berg with Amoruso. Dunn's replacement (Emerton) being very disappointing. The players bought with part of the Duff money (Reid and Ferguson) starting to look reasonably promising after a very slow start but then getting injured.

Agree completely that various players haven't performed as you would expect at different times. Gresko, Neill and Taylor being other obvious cases in point in addition to the players we've already mentioned.

thanks revidge blue, i do try my best to back up my opinions. while admitting that the sale of duff was a huge loss, it was also a large gain; ferguson, reid, emerton, amo are proven and talented players and have provided greater depth, although not strictly in the left midfield position and cost half the money of duff. however, wi dont believe the board was in the position to refuse a bid for duff. was it he that had a clause in his contract that allowed him to be sold for 17million plus? and chelsea is a very illustrious club.

agree totally with berg for amo - seems like he swapped one proven player for another and berg has proved to be the better. not too sure as to his thinking behind that one but im sure he had good intent.

[American]

Fair do's tcj!   Always like someone who can argue their case whether you agree with it or not.

Personally I would summarise all that as a particularly bad decision at Boardroom level to sell Duff. No-one signed on the left side to replace him. A poor choice being made to replace Berg with Amoruso. Dunn's replacement (Emerton) being very disappointing. The players bought with part of the Duff money (Reid and Ferguson) starting to look reasonably promising after a very slow start but then getting injured.

Agree completely that various players haven't performed as you would expect at different times. Gresko, Neill and Taylor being other obvious cases in point in addition to the players we've already mentioned.

I like Dunn, but I'd MUCH rather have Emerton. He's been doing quite well this season, creating more chances than anyone else. The problem is that he's being asked to carry too much of the creative role from midfield (or all of the creative role). Would be nice to see them put someone more creative to complement him than Flitcroft, Douglas and Tugay (though Tugay creates chances, just not for us).

[jim mk2]

All those reasons for our dismal showing this season and not one mention of the poor transfer buys/team selections/tactics/motivational abilities (or not) of our illustrious manager.

once more that is an opinion, as is mine, but is an opinion i dont agree with im afraid. motivation not only lies within the manager but within the captain and the team. as we finished 6th last season with much of the same personnell i do not believe this can be attributed to our dismal showing, nor can it be placed simply on the manager. in addition to this, i have failed to note many noteable flaws in tactics, would be happy to listen to those you have seen. finally, largely i have agreed with souness' team selections considering the extent of our injuries and the experience of souness as a tactician and manager.

Unfortunately, in the real football world it is the manager and not the players who carries the can when teams fail to deliver results on the field of play.

Without going into his transfer dealings (suffice to say that the squad is weaker than  it was this time last year), it is not controversial to say that Souness's selections and tactics this season have, at times, been extremely baffling.

Injuries have certainly played their part but Souness has exacerbated the consistency problem by refusing to pick the same team twice when he has had the chance to do so, selecting players in the wrong positions and producing tactics formations that have appeared to confuse the Rovers players as much as the opposition.

Souness has also presided over one of the worst defences in the league, one that has been apparent since the first day of the season and he has failed to rectify, and worst of all, he often appears unable to motivate a generally disinterested squad of players into giving their all for Blackburn Rovers.

You can blame the board, the players, "lady luck", injuries or whatever, but the buck stops with Souness. And he knows it.

[tcj_jones]

Unfortunately, in the real football world it is the manager and not the players who carries the can when teams fail to deliver results on the field of play.

oh to this i agree 100%; all too often managers are blamed for, or carry the can, following bad results or bad seasons, even when it is clearly their fault.

You can blame the board, the players, "lady luck", injuries or whatever, but the buck stops with Souness. And he knows it.

once more i agree 100%.  that is one of the reasons souness appears more and more dejected after every match and why i believe he might take the flack for this season. but hey, it aint over yet...

Without going into his transfer dealings (suffice to say that the squad is weaker than  it was this time last year), it is not controversial to say that Souness's selections and tactics this season have, at times, been extremely baffling.

Injuries have certainly played their part but Souness has exacerbated the consistency problem by refusing to pick the same team twice when he has had the chance to do so, selecting players in the wrong positions and producing tactics formations that have appeared to confuse the Rovers players as much as the opposition.

Souness has also presided over one of the worst defences in the league, one that has been apparent since the first day of the season and he has failed to rectify, and worst of all, he often appears unable to motivate a generally disinterested squad of players into giving their all for Blackburn Rovers.

admittedly, the squad is far weaker then this time last season but this isnt due to souness transfers or transfer policies but amazingly unfortunate injuries.

it is by no means controversial to say that souness' team selections are baffling, but baffling is not the word i would use. it is difficult to keep a consistent line up when we have one good game followed by one bad game as souness states. also, souness has regulars or particulars that he keeps faith with, regulars that more often then not come good. nissa is an eg of this - sure he had one particularly good game, against man city i believe, but souness preferred to stick with babbel and todd who, in my opinion, had played consistantly well in that period of time and deserved the right to keep their place in the side.

i find it hard to recall any players played out of position NOT due to injury problems, which in my opinion, is not a flaw in tactics.

the defence seems to be a riddle that nobody can solve. "residing," over the defence would not be the correct word in my opinion as due to injuries it has almost been forced upon him. however, souness appears to have shown faith in those he has purchased as to give them an oppertunity to prove themselves or to have shown faith in those that have more premiership experience.

and finally, il reitterate that motivation is not simply the responsibility of the manager but the playing staff and the captain. as the captain has been shifted so many times this season that could be one reason. however, everton find themselves in a VERY similar position to us. is this to say that moyes hasnt the ability to motivate his team? surely not one of the best managers of last season?

[Blue blood]

Wasn't Emerton replacing Gillespie and Ferguson replacing Dunn? In both cases Rovers have improved the squad. The only player not to be replaced is Duff and whilst it is nigh on impossible to get someone else of this quality, having no replacement whatsoever has been clearly detrimental to the team. The only criticism that can be levelled at Souness as regards to transfers is his lack of a replacement for Duff.

As for the rest on paper the squad has been strengthened in all areas. Sadly many of the players have not lived up to expectations this season, but can this be seen as Sounesses fault?

[Flopsy]

and Bergs doing so well up at Rangers isnt he??

[ROYB]

i find it hard to recall any players played out of position NOT due to injury problems, which in my opinion, is not a flaw in tactics.

How about these then:-

(1) Right back playing left midfield;

(2) centre back playing left midfield;

(3) centre back playing central midfield;

(4) central midfielder playing left midfield;

(5) forwards playing back in midfield;

(6) central defender and defensive midfielder coming on to play in attack

[bob fleming]

(7) Goalkeeper playing centre forward  

[Nuclearsox]

(8) Tiny playing

[Blackburn Ender]

Disagree with Jim on several points here:

I think our squad is much stronger than this time last season. Only Duff is really missed (with the Berg issue mentioned above).

Ferguson, Gallagher, Stead, Reid, Gray, Emerton are all good buys/youth players.

Motivation is a Souness strong point. Witness the number of times we 'play to the final whistle', often scoring in the last few minutes.

Sadly, the opposition usually score in the final minutes as well, which suggests the problem is coaching and teamwork. A different point.

[RoverDrake]

Our problems all stem from the transfer market.

Emerton was Gillespie's replacement and although Emerton hasn't been on-fire so to speak, he has shown us glimpses of his good assissting. Plus even with one leg he is a better player than Keith..

Amo is a good defender. Carried an injury but yet to see whether he can adjust to the Prem yet when not carrying an injury.

Reid is extremely versatile and committed but no where near a replacement for Duff.

But our poor season has also seen the likes of Gallagher, Douglas and younger players being blossomed into the side and given a chance. With Gally taking his..

To improve the team we need:

* A decent centre-back with pace. (I would of said Van Buyten)

*A raiding, attacking, young left-sided midfielder.

*A good, confident, reasonably aged striker (Stead isn't enough)

[jim mk2]

Motivation is a Souness strong point. Witness the number of times we 'play to the final whistle', often scoring in the last few minutes.

Eh? Beg to differ old chap.

Where were you on Saturday, and the Chelsea, Bolton and Manchester City matches?

[John]

Some of the posts here suggest that GS doesnt realise what has gone wrong this season.

He absolutely hates losing, especially in some of the manners we have done this season. He simply wont put up for it for another season.

Budget will not be big in the summer, even some of his/our favourite players will go.

Talk is that Norway left winger may come in along with a young central defender. If we get some income maybe even a centre midfield player or striker.

[S15]

Well 100 pages yet Mr.Souness is still around.

Back him.

[BRFC4EVA]

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