Souness must go ?

[accyrover]

All I can say is...........................................................................................

Chop Souey !

Couldn't resist it

Accyrover

[Exiled_Rover]

how are we going to get rid of the majority of the squad and fund a re-building exercise? we have no transfer money, we are making a massive loss because of poor gates and the only players worth anything we would want to keep!!!

For the future of the club being relegated might actually be the best idea - in terms of jumping into the fire that's making us hot. We're seriously overpaying the players and going down would force us to sort out the business side of the club - of course I couldn't see us making it back to the Prem running the club like a business, simply not enough funds coming in

[tcj_jones]

i would opt more for the term "reshuffle;" not necessarily rebuilding or buying new expensive players but getting rid of the negative influences on the squad. cole, yorke, tugay and short OUT. short might be the biggest surprise of the four but his constant injury problems continuously upset the team and his inconsistance on occasion is unqcceptable. cole is a great player WHEN HE WANTS TO BE. similarly yorke can play well when his position is in jeopardy but what we have to remember is that cole and yroke and their inability to give 100% and get on with their manager affects morale and we cannot keep paying these players to do what they are doing. tugay can have moments of genious but he is too much of a liability and a player of his age needs regular football and consistentcy which he will not get with a fully fit thompson and ferguson. flitcroft cannot be captain any longer - when the goign gets tough , flitcroft gets soft. not in terms of battleing but obviously in gal\vanising the team and inspiring them. oh and jansen is not the player he was - he will be more at home in division one.

we dont need a new cb - bring nissa and mceverly back into the squad and i think they will be more then enough cover, especially with amouruso fit and healthy. a new centre mid is not needed - we have more then enough players to fill these positions, including a few youngsters that are still unproven. a natural left sided player that can beat a player with pace and deliver a good ball accross is what we need. we should spend every penny we have on a left sided player and look for a backup striker on a free or on a cheap deal. perhaps swap deals are what we should look at? jansen would be welcome in the first division as would tugay i should think. next season is not the potential crisis many are making it out to be.

[Tris]

For the future of the club being relegated might actually be the best idea - in terms of jumping into the fire that's making us hot. We're seriously overpaying the players and going down would force us to sort out the business side of the club - of course I couldn't see us making it back to the Prem running the club like a business, simply not enough funds coming in

Absolutely no way no way no way.

The London Branch had an interesting Q and A session with John Williams before the game on Saturday.

In his words, "there is no business model which can deal with turnover dropping from £40 million to £20 million like that" - and he clicked his fingers.

If Rovers go down we can all draw a line under the last 10 years because that will be that - thanks for the memories.

[Rover_Shaun]

Shut yer Mouth's and get behind Souness and the lads in what we have left - we don't have much else to look at unless you think Parkes or the very dodgy sounding Saunders could keep us up!! We ain't gonna survive unless we get supporting the team - we don't wanna be divided over this!

What was said about Pompey? If we won it we would be in a healthy position from the relegation zone - but we didn't, and we aren't so we gonna have to get on with it.

If we just keep talking about trying to survive and moaning about the management you will find that in the end we will just run out of matches!

FAO Local Rovers (and from Far who can make it) you can find the ticket details for the upcomming rovers matches Here

For my own saftey i would like to ensure that Rover6 and Jim are both fitted with Muzzle's.

Up the Rovers...

anyway... Ferguson could be back for Leeds and hopefully Reid wold of made a full recovery. Hopefully Reid will be very creative for us - our problem is that times we have relyed on Emerton far to much!

Another non-moaner or whinger. Thank god I thought I was on my own and that this board was full of spinless old women

[Exiled_Rover]

Absolutely no way no way no way.

The London Branch had an interesting Q and A session with John Williams before the game on Saturday.

In his words, "there is no business model which can deal with turnover dropping from £40 million to £20 million like that" - and he clicked his fingers.

If Rovers go down we can all draw a line under the last 10 years because that will be that - thanks for the memories.

I've said somewhere that dropping down a division would be curtains for the club, but for some sick and twisted reason the accountant in me still sees it as a way of the club surviving folding.

As for there being no business model that could accomodate such a drop - this is coming from a man who spends what 75% of the teams income on freakin wages!! I'm not having a go at the executives, but they clearly need someone with a logical head running the money matters, that's not a sustainable business model in itself

[RevidgeBlue]

You're not going to get many visitors to your new forum if you just post on here to insult people.

(That was directed at blue and white army BTW)

Edited March 29, 2004 by RevidgeBlue

[FourLaneBlue]

Another non-moaner or whinger. Thank god I thought I was on my own and that this board was full of spinless old women

You don't post on the BBC 606 Forum do you? Sorry if I'm mistaken

[Tris]

I've said somewhere that dropping down a division would be curtains for the club, but for some sick and twisted reason the accountant in me still sees it as a way of the club surviving folding.

As for there being no business model that could accomodate such a drop - this is coming from a man who spends what 75% of the teams income on freakin wages!! I'm not having a go at the executives, but they clearly need someone with a logical head running the money matters, that's not a sustainable business model in itself

He (JW) is of the opinion that there's no point in doing what (eg) West Brom did.

They came into the Premiership and refused to spend to stay there - fine.

That meant they were never likely to stay there. They may well come back up, but if they use the same philosophy they'll go straight down again. There will certainly be no more lofty ambition than survival.

Birmingham gambled last January and won and now have more to play for than survival.

JW sees Rovers as a club which should be able to compete for the "best of the rest" spot - ie 6th - and tries to fit that view into a business plan to provide the best platform for the club to compete at that level.

He also said that the fat has been trimmed from the squad and it has to be so for a club of our size - eg selling Mahon - in an ideal world we kept him but this isn't an ideal world and as a utility player at best he had to go.

[jim mk2]

He (JW) is of the opinion that there's no point in doing what (eg) West Brom did.

They came into the Premiership and refused to spend to stay there - fine.

That meant they were never likely to stay there. They may well come back up, but if they use the same philosophy they'll go straight down again. There will certainly be no more lofty ambition than survival.

Birmingham gambled last January and won and now have more to play for than survival.

JW sees Rovers as a club which should be able to compete for the "best of the rest" spot - ie 6th - and tries to fit that view into a business plan to provide the best platform for the club to compete at that level.

He also said that the fat has been trimmed from the squad and it has to be so for a club of our size - eg selling Mahon - in an ideal world we kept him but this isn't an ideal world and as a utility player at best he had to go.

So why, in Williams's opinion, has it all gone wrong for Rovers this season or did no one ask him any difficult questions?

[LeChuck]

He (JW) is of the opinion that there's no point in doing what (eg) West Brom did.

They came into the Premiership and refused to spend to stay there - fine.

That meant they were never likely to stay there. They may well come back up, but if they use the same philosophy they'll go straight down again. There will certainly be no more lofty ambition than survival.

But isn't that the exact same strategy that Charlton adopted? They didn't spend when they came up, went straight back down but strengthened their team and made an immeadiate return to the Premiership. They've improved year on year and are challanging for a CL spot this season.

That's probably the safest way of doing it, the alternative is the one that Birmingham took...but so did Bradford...

[Blackburn Ender]

I'm just thinking aloud here, but two seasons ago we were struggling and Cole's arrival and goals helped keep us up.

Last season we were struggling and Duff's return from injury and goals helped us up the leage.

This season we're struggling and who's the player to get us out of the mire? Stead? Gallagher? Maybe.

But there is a pattern there...

[rover6]

But isn't that the exact same strategy that Charlton adopted? They didn't spend when they came up, went straight back down but strengthened their team and made an immeadiate return to the Premiership. They've improved year on year and are challanging for a CL spot this season.

That's probably the safest way of doing it, the alternative is the one that Birmingham took...but so did Bradford...

It's not about how much money you spend - but how well.

Souness' signings are so hit and miss. And unfortunately the big signings - Grabbi and Cole - have been miss. ( I know Cole had half a season of decent performances when he arrived but that doesn't justify £8 million price tag).

While Curbishley was picking up Chris Perry for a nominal fee - Souness was snapping up 32 year old Amoruso for nearly £2 million pounds.

I just don't think Souness has the nouse in the transfer market. He's obviously better than Kidd - and there have been good signings. But, imo, he tries to buy midfielders that are like he was as a player - on the basis of their work-rate and tackling ability over skill and flair. And whilst you don't want a whole team of Berkovic's - one would be nice to create opportunities.

Sacking Souness now would be too risky because the new man would have no time to change things around.

If we stay up, I want to see Souness swallow his pride and admit he needs a bit of help with the job by bringing in a number two. I don't know who it could be - but there are plenty of good coaches floating around looking for a job. A Rovers connection would be preferable. It's worked with Redknapp and Smith at Pompey so why not?

[roversactive]

Another non-moaner or whinger. Thank god I thought I was on my own and that this board was full of spinless old women

Personally, i think its more important that we worry about staying up, and so getting behind the team right now rather then worrying about the man in charge - as i said in my post, at such a late stage who do they expect to save us? We can't really apoint anoyone and i couldnt see Parkes or Saunders saving us!

[Ste B]

Personally, i think its more important that we worry about staying up, and so getting behind the team right now rather then worrying about the man in charge - as i said in my post, at such a late stage who do they expect to save us? We can't really apoint anoyone and i couldnt see Parkes or Saunders saving us!

My sentiments exactly.

I cannot see anything to be gained by sacking our manager at this late stage of the season. In fact it will probably be the final nail in our coffin that condemns us to the 1st division.

Its incredibly important that everybody (fans, players, managment, board) are all together on this and we develop some sort of dunkirk type spirit. The players need to put a performance in to lift the fans, the fans need to make some noise and get behind the players - we cant afford the "if the players dont perform/the fans dont get behind us" mentality here.

Come the end of the season, then a lot of people are going to be reviewing what their priorities are for the next season, the fans will be deciding on season tickets, the players on potential moves, the board on if the manager/players is good enough, the manager on his own motivation, players and coaching staff.

[roversWASmylife]

Can see all points that have been posted.

I agree that sacking Souness now wouldn`t do anyone any good. But at the end of the season, serious questions have to be adressed.

It`s obvious that there is a clear problem with the first team squad. The players aren`t giving everything, so why? Is it because they think that there better than every other team that visits Ewood, or is it because there`s a rift between the players and the manager?

I don`t know if there is, but there seems to be, with all the arguments that have happened with the players.

Everyone makes mistakes, but I`m sure we`re all wondering why Gray, probably our best source of creating any possible chance on Saturday, is taken off?

[robert 15]

there are a few reasons why the team are doing so badly this year, the first is that at the start of the season souness brought a lot of new faces to the club and perhaps they hav not gelled with the othe players. another reason is that the players souness brought in are use to winning things so they might not know what to do when you are in a dog fight. At the moment it is not the right time to sack souness. I would wait once we have stayed up i would keep souness and re-asses after 10 games next season because hopfully by the start of next season we will have a full strength squad so if we are down near the relgation zone then I would get rid of souness but if we are doing well then I would keep him because if we are going to have 1 bad season every 4 seasons then I will settle for that.

[USABlue]

The players aren`t giving everything, so why? Is it because they think that there better than every other team that visits Ewood, or is it because there`s a rift between the players and the manager?

I've said it before, it's due to a lack of professionalism in some of our players. A lack of professionalism born from a "I'll be alright Jack" attitude, let's face it, even given the drop quite a few of our players could command similar or better salaries with other teams, they know that.

OUr hope comes in the form of the Gally's and Steads who know they have to give effort to make any impact. Of course if they are subbed and not given enough playing time then eventually they will adopt the same "ah to hell with it why should I bother" attitude, and who could blame them.

[tashor]

JW sees Rovers as a club which should be able to compete for the "best of the rest" spot - ie 6th - and tries to fit that view into a business plan to provide the best platform for the club to compete at that level.

That is the most sensible and encouraging thing I have read on this forum for a long time.

Not suprising he is not a regular poster.

[Exiled_Rover]

That is the most sensible and encouraging thing I have read on this forum for a long time.

Not suprising he is not a regular poster.

Well you're a bagful of laughs aren't you

[pg]

If we stay up, I want to see Souness swallow his pride and admit he needs a bit of help with the job by bringing in a number two. I don't know who it could be - but there are plenty of good coaches floating around looking for a job. A Rovers connection would be preferable. It's worked with Redknapp and Smith at Pompey so why not?

My god.. I think I agree with rover6

By John William's own assessment, finishing below 10th is un-acceptable for a team with the 8th highest wage bill in the league.

The management structure has to change. Like others, I found Souness' comments before the Villa game encouraging, as it showed that he was willing to change.

As a journalist wrote back in November, this is the first real crisis he's had as a manager, and he's 'hit the wall'. He can either ignore it, try and bash through it, or go around it.

Hopefully he realises now that he needs help, and he must change, and can accept some new appointments.

But more of the same is un-acceptable.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

For those of you without the benefit of hindsight - which players that Souness has bought would you not have bought ?

I question the Amo signing, and possibly Reid (as we already had two decent right sided midfield players). But other than that(and not buying a Duff replacement) I have agreed with his signings at the time they were made.

In fact, how many supporters have questioned the Friedal and Gray purchases (even though both free transfers) before they set foot on the pitch.

The point I am making is that (without hindsight) it is difficult to question the players he has bought. Unlike £5m Dailly, £4.5m Ward, £7.5m Davies and on and on...............

Give the guy a break - especially as Rovers would struggle to get somebody in with his profile etc. We are no longer in the days of Uncle Jack - staying in the premiership each season is being successful for a club the size of Rovers - beyond that is a bonus

[Exiled_Rover]

For those of you without the benefit of hindsight - which players that Souness has bought would you not have bought ?

I question the Amo signing, and possibly Reid (as we already had two decent right sided midfield players). But other than that(and not buying a Duff replacement) I have agreed with his signings at the time they were made.

In fact, how many supporters have questioned the Friedal and Gray purchases (even though both free transfers) before they set foot on the pitch.

The point I am making is that (without hindsight) it is difficult to question the players he has bought. Unlike £5m Dailly, £4.5m Ward, £7.5m Davies and on and on...............

Give the guy a break - especially as Rovers would struggle to get somebody in with his profile etc. We are no longer in the days of Uncle Jack - staying in the premiership each season is being successful for a club the size of Rovers - beyond that is a bonus

I questioned the Amo signing, the transfer fee for the Ferguson signing, and the Yorke signing. I would question the transfer fee of the Cole signing, but he kept us up.

I praised the Gresko signing, was cautious about the Gray signing, was happy about the Emerton signing and was happy with the Stead signing (though a little pricey at the time).

[bellamy11]

Just something I've noticed from one or two posts on here:

Why are we all taking about a "profile" manager?

Ruud Gullit is a profile manager. Bryan Kidd is a profile manager. Graham Taylor is a profile manager. Surely if you're making your wishlist it should be a manager with pedigree, which is a completely different thing.

There is no formula for success with a manager. rover6 has infamously suggested Paul Sturrock for us before. He isn't a "profile" manager. Why will the bigger-named Bryan Robson be a better choice for manager? Who is to say if Arsene Wenger came to the club we'd do any better? Who is to say that nobody could come in and change the team around, simply because they don't have the "name" of Graeme Souness?

If GS goes then we probably won't be able to attract a big-name manager. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. So when I read all this "well we aren't big enough to get a profile manager now" (DavidMailsTightPerm being the most recent example) I wonder why people even bother saying it. If there was a table of managers and picking the one nearest the top gave you the most success then I'd be worried.

Players don't want to play for a small name? Fine then, get lost. Players who won't play for an unknown manager are a waste of a shirt. Who is to say John Coleman couldn't fire a rocket up Brett Emerton's backside and get him playing like the classy player we thought we'd signed? Anybody with an ounce of professionalism will play for pride and their team, and most importantly respect any boss.

So how pointless is all this dead-end arguing? You can list a manager's credentials and gasp at how many medal's they've won in a glittering playing career. It won't make them the best man for Blackburn Rovers. If, say, Bruce Rioch was manager (sic) and this was happening, I bet somebody would be saying "we need somebody strong like Graeme Souness to get the players out of this".

GS carries the buck. If his players (and this is very much his squad) aren't performing then its both his fault and theirs. He was the best man for the job three years ago, he could very well be the best man now. So stop whining and bloody support the man. Or draw another name out of the hat and groundlessly claim that they would be a better choice.

[rover6]

Out of this seasons signings, I was dead against the signings of Amoruso, Gray, Yelldell at the time they happened.

In hindsight - I was definitely wrong about Gray (but we have to wait and see if he can maintain his form longer than some of our other signings). But I think I'm being proved right about Amoruso and Yelldell.

Edited March 30, 2004 by rover6