More Trouble At Leeds

[Paul]

stuwilky is right. I think Hughesy multiplied instead of dividing.

[Hughesy]

Sorry its early, was working it out as below.

500.00 x 0.04375 = 21,875.

Ignore me!

How much do the dealers charge and also what fee do they charge when you sell?

[stuwilky]

  Hughesy said:

Sorry its early, was working it out as below.

500.00 x 0.04375 = 21,875.

Ignore me!

How much do the dealers charge and also what fee do they charge when you sell?

Ring one up and ask, it is usually dependanton the value of the trade, mine charges anywhere between 12 and 20 quid plus a percentage.

[Hughesy]

  stuwilky said:

  Hughesy said:

Sorry its early, was working it out as below.

500.00 x 0.04375 = 21,875.

Ignore me!

How much do the dealers charge and also what fee do they charge when you sell?

Ring one up and ask, it is usually dependanton the value of the trade, mine charges anywhere between 12 and 20 quid plus a percentage.

Have you bought any leeds shares?

[stuwilky]

  Hughesy said:

  stuwilky said:

  Hughesy said:

Sorry its early, was working it out as below.

500.00 x 0.04375 = 21,875.

Ignore me!

How much do the dealers charge and also what fee do they charge when you sell?

Ring one up and ask, it is usually dependanton the value of the trade, mine charges anywhere between 12 and 20 quid plus a percentage.

Have you bought any leeds shares?

No, but my stockbroker told me to last night, and I didnt.

Bloody Leeds, one decision I regret turned down a few hundred quid but hey who cares!

[Hughesy]

Are they likely to go up alot more now then?!

[philipl]

The stock market is a joke. The one thing that the Shiekh is quoted as saying is that he does not want any money to go to the guys who put Leeds in the mess they are in.

IF (big if), the £35m is for real, £18m has to go to creditors before the summer (do you think the Revenue will forego 1p of their >£8m entitlement to the 40% of millionaire footballer wages?- neither do I). In all these things, that £18m is certain to be an under-estimate- he'll be lucky if the true figure isn't nearer £25m.

That leaves £10m to £15m to spend on players' transfer money and buy out the shareholders.

So tell me, when the sheikh says to the shareholders, every penny I give to you reduces the cash I can spend on players, how much are Leeds shares worth?

The true share value of Leeds United plc is zero per share.

[stuwilky]

  Hughesy said:

Are they likely to go up alot more now then?!

No,

see Philipl comments, they are spot on!

How can a company with more debts than assets be worth anything!

[broadsword]

Yeah, leave well alone Hughesy, you'd more likely than not be kissing your dosh goodbye.

[Paul]

Hughesy, philip and stuwilky are right. I was half joking with my original post. It probably isn't worth it. The thing about what are called "penny shares" is that you can do well with only a small increase in price. £500 gets you +/- 11,000 shares and IF, very unlikely, they go up by say 5p you can make £550 return. It's a straight gambe, if you have £500 you can lose, fine, if not don't bother.

Last time I did this I lost £400 in a year, on the other hand when I picked up ASDA at 23p many years ago it was a great investment. You have to know what you are doing - I don't - but any fool could see ASDA at 23p was amazing.

If the stock market price is rising it's probably someone taking a punt with money they can afford to lose.

[Shaddy]

Not to mention, you would want to spare yourself the personal conflict of interest of supporting Rovers and having a financial stake in Leeds. Imagine it's between Leeds and Rovers for the final relegation spot, and your investment in Leeds rides on them, or even tip scales in them coming out on top. No-ones even mentioned that yet... sheesh  

[stuwilky]

  Paul said:

Hughesy, philip and stuwilky are right. I was half joking with my original post. It probably isn't worth it. The thing about what are called "penny shares" is that you can do well with only a small increase in price. £500 gets you +/- 11,000 shares and IF, very unlikely, they go up by say 5p you can make £550 return. It's a straight gambe, if you have £500 you can lose, fine, if not don't bother.

Last time I did this I lost £400 in a year, on the other hand when I picked up ASDA at 23p many years ago it was a great investment. You have to know what you are doing - I don't - but any fool could see ASDA at 23p was amazing.

If the stock market price is rising it's probably someone taking a punt with money they can afford to lose.

If you are interested get yourself a good stockbroker, but you need to have money you are

a) prepared to lose

prepared to invest for atround 5 years

Anyway back to Leeds.........

[Modi]

Leeds might be forced to sell up and move of Elland Road according to reports.

Interesting to think that a few years back they were going to move grounds as a way to maintain serious title and European challenges, and now they need the cash from a 'prime site' in Leeds for a supermarket.  Then again, I would have though Aldi or Netto would be a better bet than the quoted Asda, as Elland Road is already the place to get bargain basement prices.

[philipl]

My recollection is that Leeds do not own Elland Road but have a long lease on it. I guess they are looking to sell the lease for alternative use.

They will probably end up ground sharing with the dingles.

In fact this could be a clever move by Birch. The Americans might not have had the foresight to specify the size of the stadium when they signed up for 25 years' of gate and season ticket receipts. If that is the case, Birch could have found his point of leverage on the Americans as moving to a much smaller stadium would potentially scupper their security.

They would not win a Court case to prevent Leeds from doing that if Birch and his insolvency advisers could show that they sold the lease to ensure the club's survival by acting in the interests of all creditors.

Even though the shiekh's £35m is turning into a desert mirage, this is the first piece of news which makes me think that Leeds might have a remote chance of coming through.

However, it is still odds on a fire sale of players this month.

[ihtd]

I know this sounds really really mean, but i do hope that Leeds are put in to administration.

I say this because there players will be availible on the cheap. So we could sign Paul Robinson, Alan Smith and a decent left winger in James Milner.

The future left winger for England is James MIlner

[thenodrog]

It appears that Leeds have gained a 2 week reprieve from their creditors.

[RevidgeBlue]

  thenodrog said:

It appears that Leeds have gained a 2 week reprieve from their creditors.

No surprise there then.

Although possibly seeing what money (if any) is realised during the transfer window?

[philipl]

Several sources are speculating that the creditors are giving Birch two more weeks to save the club.

Interesting that they are no longer saying "sell" the club- the verb used when the four weeks were given begore Christmas.

I would guess that Birch will by now have found the weakness in every creditor, talked in gloomy terms about the cost of an administrator and the near certainty of relegation through punitive Prem League action if they went into administration to have stayed the execution.

He will for certain have had to convince the creditors of some certainty of payments which almost certainly means he is succeding in persuading the player to take a pay-cut of between 20-30%. He also is sure to be selling one or more players.

Interesting to read that Celtic are in for Michael Bridges- I wonder if Chris Sutton might be available after all.

Perhaps Willcox is affordable after a 30% pay cut?  

Millner certainly seems to have all the bad and the ugly chasing to sign him so I think the Rovers would struggle to get him.

[philipl]

The latest Leeds situation from the BBC.

No saviours but enough poisonous imponderables in the alternatives for Trevor Birch to be given the chance for LUFCplc to limp on.

[SirFozzie]

That's probably the worst thing of all. All the fans are kept on pins and needles... wondering what's going to happen. At least if there was a final word.. Keep the team. Sell the team, or even wind the team up, there would be knowledge that the decision had been made. Although I'm sure they wouldn't prefer the last option

[stuwilky]

  thenodrog said:

It appears that Leeds have gained a 2 week reprieve from their creditors.

I believe that the 'deadline' of tomorrow was just a date pickied by the Leeds board in some, seemingly, misguided attempt to try and get some rich arab/russian/or whatever to invest in a football club they know nothing about.

I dont believe the creditors are pushing for administration as it would mean that any chance they had left of staying up (and therefore being able to pay some money back rather than implode) would disappear with the sale of the likes of Smith, Robinson et al.

[den]

  SirFozzie said:

That's probably the worst thing of all. All the fans are kept on pins and needles... K

Kept on pins and needles?

[philipl]

  stuwilky said:

  thenodrog said:

It appears that Leeds have gained a 2 week reprieve from their creditors.

I believe that the 'deadline' of tomorrow was just a date pickied by the Leeds board in some, seemingly, misguided attempt to try and get some rich arab/russian/or whatever to invest in a football club they know nothing about.

I dont believe the creditors are pushing for administration as it would mean that any chance they had left of staying up (and therefore being able to pay some money back rather than implode) would disappear with the sale of the likes of Smith, Robinson et al.

stuwilky, you couldn't be more wrong.

Leeds had to come up with about £5m in cash to meet payments falling due in mid-December.

They couldn't find the money and went grovelling to their creditors to beg for more time to pay. They were given four weeks which are up tomorrow. It appears the creditors have gone soft again and will give Leeds another week or two to find the money.

If I were a creditor of Leeds United, I would tell them to sell ALL their players right now and get as much cash as they can for them, bring in new ones earning at most 25% the last lot were on and know that there is a fan base large and loyal enough which can re-pay my debts and interest after the incidentals of rumnning the football club.

If the Directors of the Football Club will not do that, put in an Administrator who will.

Why do I need Premiership football to pay off my debts? I know that a perfectly good First Division outfit can be run for well under £20m a year. Gate receipts at Leeds in Div 1 would still be £20m a year, commercial activities would still rake in £10-15m a year and I could trouser the Premiership parachute payment of £5m  

Remember, most of the debts are to American financiers and that is exactly how they will look at it.

[RevidgeBlue]

I still reckon the only way Leeds will go into administration is if they do so voluntarily as a precautionary measure to avoid the 10 point penalty imposed on Nationwide Clubs who do the same. (The possibility of them being a Nationwide Club next year is looking increasingly likely.)

If I was a creditor I would ease off slightly ensuring the maximum return from any and all saleable assets whether now or in the summer, pocket that, then bail out with at least some return leaving them to it.

[broadsword]

Cor, it's like watching an edition of the Money Programme, this, only more interesting.