More Trouble At Leeds

[philipl]

An interesting report on how the people of Leeds see the club's plight.

On a seperate decision, I have to say I was pleased to see that Leeds have told Batty he has played his last game for them. If Leeds go out of business, Batty probably played the decisive role in killing them when as PFA rep he scuppered what was probably a done deal to rescue the club ten days ago  if the players had taken the 35% cut then.

A pithy commentary on Leeds players in general.

[Blue blood]

If Leeds United go down, what have Yorkshire got? Yorkshire won't have a Premiership club, unless Sheffield United go up. Lancashire have Manchester United, Manchester City, Bolton ... Leeds have become a laughing stock.

The muppets forgot to mention the best Lancashire team (and technically the only Lancashire team) Rovers. Other than that good articles. It's fascinating in a morbid kind of way watching Leeds in their death throws.

[philipl]

Middlesbrough are in the old county of Yorkshire.

On current performances, there is more likelihood of Wigan being in the Prem than Sheff U.

[SuperStella]

I really hope Leeds go down. Their fans are scum

[Scotty]

An interesting report on how the people of Leeds see the club's plight.

On a seperate decision, I have to say I was pleased to see that Leeds have told Batty he has played his last game for them. If Leeds go out of business, Batty probably played the decisive role in killing them when as PFA rep he scuppered what was probably a done deal to rescue the club ten days ago  if the players had taken the 35% cut then.

A pithy commentary on Leeds players in general.

To be fair to Batty (and the other players) I'm not sure I'd be happy about accepting a pay refferal when there was a good chance the players would never see the reffered money again.  It's not the players' fault that Leeds are in the mess they are in (at least off the field anyway).

What I don't understand about this whole Batty story is why it's been made public.  Eddie Gray could have simply not picked Batty for the rest of the games - why drag the whole thing out into the open?  I can't see what he's trying to achieve.

[Scotty]

Just read this article .

Looks like Gordon Taylor's not happy about it either.

[FourLaneBlue]

An interesting report on how the people of Leeds see the club's plight.

On a seperate decision, I have to say I was pleased to see that Leeds have told Batty he has played his last game for them. If Leeds go out of business, Batty probably played the decisive role in killing them when as PFA rep he scuppered what was probably a done deal to rescue the club ten days ago  if the players had taken the 35% cut then.

A pithy commentary on Leeds players in general.

To be fair to Batty (and the other players) I'm not sure I'd be happy about accepting a pay refferal when there was a good chance the players would never see the reffered money again.  It's not the players' fault that Leeds are in the mess they are in (at least off the field anyway).

What I don't understand about this whole Batty story is why it's been made public.  Eddie Gray could have simply not picked Batty for the rest of the games - why drag the whole thing out into the open?  I can't see what he's trying to achieve.

Exactly- what on earth was the point? As for the Leeds manager suggesting that he would onl play 4-4-2 for the rest of the season- fine but why on earth tell the media?

As far as I can see there are two possible reasons for Gray speaking out; either this is connected for reasons other than football or Gray's gone into insania, as Peter Andre might put it. It is utterly bemusing all round- why would Gray make himself unpopular with many Leeds fans by conspicuously attacking one of the most popular Leeds players? Batty hasn't played too badly this season so for Gray to even refuse to consider him for the bench (even if if an injury crisis came up!) means it is impossible to see this as stemming solely from footballing considerations.

Philipl- with reference to your words "If Leeds go out of business, Batty probably played the decisive role in killing them when as PFA rep he scuppered what was probably a done deal to rescue the club ten days ago  if the players had taken the 35% cut then." That is pure speculation. The 'done deal' as you put it was hardly likely to be based only on whether the players immediately took a paycut without any time for them to even consider it. You should really get a few more facts together before suggesting a player like Batty who has been at the club for the years has "played the decisive role in killing them". It's unfair to lay that on someone when your accusation is littered with "probably".

[USABlue]

An interesting report on how the people of Leeds see the club's plight.

On a seperate decision, I have to say I was pleased to see that Leeds have told Batty he has played his last game for them. If Leeds go out of business, Batty probably played the decisive role in killing them when as PFA rep he scuppered what was probably a done deal to rescue the club ten days ago  if the players had taken the 35% cut then.

A pithy commentary on Leeds players in general.

To be fair to Batty (and the other players) I'm not sure I'd be happy about accepting a pay refferal when there was a good chance the players would never see the reffered money again.  It's not the players' fault that Leeds are in the mess they are in (at least off the field anyway).

What I don't understand about this whole Batty story is why it's been made public.  Eddie Gray could have simply not picked Batty for the rest of the games - why drag the whole thing out into the open?  I can't see what he's trying to achieve.

Awwww didums do poor wittle footballer been told by his employer he's not wanted.  Hey life happens, deal with it. If the suggestions I have heard that he scuppered the lifeline are true then good for Leeds, I mean in our real world would any Corporation or Business keep an employee who tried to destroy them.

[Scotty]

If the suggestions I have heard that he scuppered the lifeline are true then good for Leeds, I mean in our real world would any Corporation or Business keep an employee who tried to destroy them.

They aren't and he didn't.

In fact Batty, and all the other players have agreed to a 25% pay cut for the rest of the season.

I assume you'd be only too happy to take a pay cut then if the company you work for was going down the pan through no fault of your own?

[philipl]

FLB, having been in the position of fighting to keep a struggling company afloat, I do know what I am talking about.

Each creditor has their own interest and legally any one of them can kill you. It is like spinning plates on top of bamboo canes- you've got to run round keeping them all spinning all the time because any one falling off kills the show!

I am pretty clear in my own reading that on 29 January, Trevor Birch had a solution if the players had taken the 35% deferrment then. They didn't and Leeds could still collapse on Friday 13th.

The creditors will have looked at the players and said: "Why should I write off a sizeable chunk of my debt when a bunch of grossly overpaid footballers who are not good enough to sustain a place in the Premier League and are lead by a mouthy 35 year old who is not good enough to get into the first team of the bottom club are not willing to only earn £700K a year after taking a pay deferrment?"  

As a consequence many of the deals Birch would have done dependent on getting the players' agreementr would have been instantly withdrawn the momernt shop steward Batty came on with the strop.

Ron Atkinson got it right when he lambasted the players. The choice wasn't between 65% and 100% of their contract being paid- it was between 65% and 0%.

There is no doubt Gray has acted to sort out Batty now to show to everyone at Elland Road "you are either with us or you are against us".

How many times have I got to explain, the fans will only matter if all season ticket holders are capable of paying more than £5,000 a head to pay off the debts? Otherwise they are hostages to what ever is coiming their way.

[RevidgeBlue]

philip, it's inconceivable that any of the creditors would not now give Leeds until the end of the season isn't it?

Even if they were to go into administration, they wouldn't be able to sell off any playing assets until the end of the season would they? (Other than abroad)

I could see Leeds putting themselves into voluntary administration though if their relegation fate is sealed prior to the end of the season.

[philipl]

No it is quite possible that Leeds could go into administration on Friday although not the most likely of scenarios.

However, assuming Leeds are looking at debts of £100m+, the creditors are only delaying calling in the administrators because Trevor Birch is convincing enough of them they will get more money basck with him in charge.

If the Consortium or Ugandan are not for real, then Trevor Birch has very little going for him compared with an administrator directly answerable to the creditors.

If Leeds lose tonight and City and Pompey win tomorrow, they will be nine points and goal difference away from safety. Would you gamble £100m on them not going down in those circumstances?

As I said last Friday, I was genuinely surprised Trevor Birch was not given until the end of the season then. The fact he wasn't means that a majority of the creditor votes can clearly see a set of circumstances in which it would be in their best interest to call the administrator in before the season end.

This is why I think there has been some bitter score settling and emasculation of Batty.

Trevor Birch might well ask for more salary deferrments to save the club.

[American]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but it appears Leeds has rejected a 60 mil offer along with another 30 mil to spend on new players because none of the proposed new board would be English.

Link to Guardian Article

[Scotty]

I am pretty clear in my own reading that on 29 January, Trevor Birch had a solution if the players had taken the 35% deferrment then. They didn't and Leeds could still collapse on Friday 13th.

The creditors will have looked at the players and said: "Why should I write off a sizeable chunk of my debt when a bunch of grossly overpaid footballers who are not good enough to sustain a place in the Premier League and are lead by a mouthy 35 year old who is not good enough to get into the first team of the bottom club are not willing to only earn £700K a year after taking a pay deferrment?"  

As a consequence many of the deals Birch would have done dependent on getting the players' agreementr would have been instantly withdrawn the momernt shop steward Batty came on with the strop.

Hang on a minute Philip.  Correct me if I'm wrong here.

- Leeds needed £5m or so to survive until the end of the season.

- Leeds asked the players for a 35% deferrment.  

- The players said come back after you've exhausted all other options.

- Leeds then raised £1.5m from United for the remaining Ferdinand fee and removed Bridges from their wage bill.

- The Leeds players then agreed to a 25% deferrment, allowing Leeds to save the remainder of the £5m.

Yet Leeds are still in trouble as their creditors are still not happy.  So what difference would it have made if the players had agreed to the 35% deferrment up front?

There's something not right here and it seems to me that the players are being used as the scapegoats for further incompetence by the Leeds board.

[colin]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but it appears Leeds has rejected a 60 mil offer along with another 30 mil to spend on new players because none of the proposed new board would be English.

If that is correct then either:

(1)  the Board is confident that it can stave off Administration or

(2) it doesn't give a flying one about the continuation of the club and it is happy to see it go down the pan.

[philipl]

Scotty, this is nothing to do with incompetence on the part of the board of Leeds United and everything to do with worthless players hanging onto fat pay packets.

Leeds owe £100m+. That is £100m+ of somebody else's money which they are not able to pay.

So Leeds have talked to those people whom they cannot pay and asked for patience which is what they got in the creditors' standstill. Leeds could then spend December and January finding a way at least of paying instalments and keeping the club in business long enough this season to see if they can stay up.

However, even to do that needed to find £5m from somewhere.

The biggest item of expenditure is the players' wages. With about four exceptions, none of the players is of the calibre they would earn even 50% of the money they are taking from Leeds anywhere else.

Anyone with one ounce of grey matter would see that the players' only hope of seeing their contracts being paid would be to participate in the full 35% deferment.

But no, they refused unless other avenues were considered and that involved a 65% discount to Man U on the outstanding transfer of Ferdinand. As a result, Leeds went past the third of their agreed deadlines with the creditors without a deal on the table.

For a creditor that means not only is their patience being stretched but the deal with Man U means there is £2m less available in assets to pay towards their £100m eventually.

In other words, Trevor Birch spent £2m of their money to buy himself more time.

When creditors see the principle beneficiaries of their patience (the players) behave in such a selfish way, they turn round and get selfish themselves.

So an offer to Trevor Birch to extend the standstill to the end of the season if he got the £5m on the basis of a 35% deferral became a further standstill for a week because they did not like what had happened.

Trevor Birch was left at the mercy of a Ugandan Sports Philanthropist who isn't for real (nobody takes on a business as complex as Leeds United without having local nationals on the board) and a group of bottom fishing local tykes.

Friday 13th will be Friday 13th for Leeds if against all odds, Man City, Pompey and Everton all win tonight. The creditors are gambling on Leeds having a chance of Prem survival and would surely pull the plug if they are still six points plus goal difference away from safety after tonight's games.

[FourLaneBlue]

Scotty, this is nothing to do with incompetence on the part of the board of Leeds United and everything to do with worthless players hanging onto fat pay packets.

Maybe not the current board no but the problems at Leeds of course have everything to do with the incompetence of previous members of the board at the club. The goldfish story remains a classic.

Looks like Leeds have a fifth (count 'em!) extension to the standstill agreement that they arranged with their creditors. This Football365 article (link below) continue to mention a "Yorkshire-based consortium looking to take over the club." It ain't over for Leeds until the fat lady sings, however I do have the feeling that she is beginning to warm up. Football club or not, the scale of the debt involved seems to be enormous.

CREDITORS GIVE LEEDS ANOTHER FORTNIGHT

[Clive]

I can't help feeling that Leeds will be given deadlines until someone with enough money to at least lessen the debts comes and buys the club. Of course, by not going into administration now, they may be only postponing it, and then having 10 points less if/when they get relegated. It's risky what they seem to be doing, but it may work.

[BRFC4EVA]

What seems to happen with other clubs is that they seem to get extension after extension of their deadline's. It will be a long time before leeds go into admistration.

[Scotty]

Leeds are big club and, as such, they attract a lot of investors.  I've no doubt that they will muddle through until the end of the season one way or another.  

The crunch will come when Leeds' fate is decided at the end of the season.  If they go down they're buggered.  Administration must surely follow.  If they stay up then maybe, just maybe, a rescue package could be put in place to keep them going - at least in the short term.

[philipl]

It is now pretty clear what is going on at Leeds.

The Ugandan is as real as the Sheikh and the hattrick I scored at Elland Road in front of a 43,000 crowd.

The four local investors will only move in a nanosecond before the Administrator is appointed because £85m into £20m, £100M into £20m or £135m into £20m are all maths that don't go- the only difference is the amount of disappointment and the extent of creative accounting.

So Leeds get two more weeks instead of one.

Wow, progress.

Well not really, because of the cup, Leeds don't play next week so the creditors have to wait two weeks to make their next informed judgment of the likelihood of relegation.

As soon as they think no more Prem football at Elland Road, the administrator rather than the Leeds four will move in.

It's simply about results on the field and if Citeh, Pompey and Everton start winning it will be bye bye Leeds United plc irrespective of Eddie Gray's best efforts.

[Scotty]

It is now pretty clear what is going on at Leeds.

The Ugandan is as real as the Sheikh and the hattrick I scored at Elland Road in front of a 43,000 crowd.

The four local investors will only move in a nanosecond before the Administrator is appointed because £85m into £20m, £100M into £20m or £135m into £20m are all maths that don't go- the only difference is the amount of disappointment and the extent of creative accounting.

So Leeds get two more weeks instead of one.

Wow, progress.

Well not really, because of the cup, Leeds don't play next week so the creditors have to wait two weeks to make their next informed judgment of the likelihood of relegation.

As soon as they think no more Prem football at Elland Road, the administrator rather than the Leeds four will move in.

It's simply about results on the field and if Citeh, Pompey and Everton start winning it will be bye bye Leeds United plc irrespective of Eddie Gray's best efforts.

Leeds' next game is Man U away.

[colin]

Leeds' next game is Man U away.

They've got about as much chance of winning as Middlesbrough.........

It's like the third encore.

You want it to go on for a bit , but you know the end is near.

[philipl]

Let me quote the Independent on Leeds' mysterious Ugandan:

"None of them throws any light into how the self-styled "property tycoon" made his "fortune", the size of which is unknown. He is not listed as the owner of any major assets in Uganda, nor has the £600,000 Lamborghini he reportedly imported ever been seen in public. Harvard University, where he says he studied, has no record of any graduation.

Two facts have been confirmed. As a teenager in 1987, he was indeed a winner at the "All Africa Disco Dance Championships", held in Kampala. And he has represented Uganda at athletics. As Mike Ezra, he entered the 400 metres at the 1997 World Indoor Athletics Championships, clocking a time of 53.74sec in the heats. He was eight seconds slower than the eventual gold medallist and more than two seconds slower than any of the other 33 entrants."

As if being tormented by dream merchants isn't bad enough, Jermaine Pennant was arrested for drunk-driving in London last night.

Following a fine Leeds tradition.

Now let me tell you about that hattrick I scored...

PS If the next match is Man U away, Leeds will score at least twice.

[Paul]

Here's a quick summary for the easily bewildered

leedsuniteddonothaveapaddle

The good news is one of the missing millions has re-appeared. Probably found it in the tea caddy.

Good link colin, thanks. can anyone explain this extract from The Guardian article:

"But when a football club enters administration players, staff, transfer fees and other "football debts" need to be paid before even the Inland Revenue gets its share"

I believed the bank, revenue and C&E were always first in line. Why is it different in football.

This article from Saturday's Independent Exeter could prove test case for game's rules on administration is very interesting. While it revolves around Exeter City and the club's fans who are fighting for survival there are some interesting points regarding the Inland Revenue and "Football Creditors".

Apparently under the Enterprise Act, September 2003, the Inland Revenue is no longer considered a preferential creditor. I don't know if this is in general or specific to football. The IR are looking to use Exeter City as a test case for making their administration null and void which would require Exeter to stump up £0000s they don't have. If I owed the revenue £8m, as Leeds do, I would be worried!

Under the "Football Creditors" rule a club that comes out of administration must pay in full its football debts, to players and other clubs, while it can make the usual arrangements with other creditors for "x" p in the £. One thing is clear, the Leeds players only gamble on wage deferral will be if the club ceases to trade. If Leeds go into administration the players will be played in full before the club is allowed to trade normally again. Should ease the pressure on Reid, Venables and O'Leary as well  

BTW, anyone see Peter Reid on a Question of Sport - he failed to recognise Ian Harte and had forgotten it was Kevin Moran who was the first player to be sent off in an FA Cup Final.....for a tackle on Reid who was playing for Everton!