[Archived] Big Ron Forced To Resign

[Wide-Bhoy]

Had a wee get together on Saturday night & although we thought what he had said was racist, big Ron was not a racist. A big fool & not very pc but not a racist. Then my brother in law came out with big Ron classic he said it happened when Man utd were playing Bayern & big Carsten Yanker & Memhet Scholl were about to come on. Big Ron clocks them & says, 'oh, here comes the Luftwaffe' I was buckled.

[thenodrog]

Didn't the same happen with Jim Bowen on Radio Lancashire? He was made to resign because of his comments. Not condoning it, but you can't do to one and not to the other for the same thing.

Besides ITV is rubbish when it comes to football, and it should be taken off ITV altogether.

Jim Bowen was potted for using the term 'Nig-Nog'. Unfortunately for Jim something that used to translate into numpty / stupid person now appears to have been changed in perception to something to do with the negro race.

He pleaded innocence by pointing it out at the time but the BBC still potted him.

[blue phil]

And the "Ron is old so eh says that kind of thing" is another crap argument. Most people of Ron's generation do not use that kind of racist language.

Oh , I think they do , Paul , when they feel that it's "safe" to do so.....And if they have learnt to play by the PC rules and use coded language instead , then they don't necessarily think the way they are supposed to. Nor will they ever . Human nature , you see.....

Now which is worse ? Bigron calling a useless footballer a "lazy nigger" whilst half his life he's promoted the interests of black footballers , or those of a younger age who know exactly how to refer politely to those people they privately despise.

Ron should neither have resigned nor apologised . In doing so , he has increased the power of those anti democratic elements in society who wish to curb freedom of speech . Hypocrisy reigns .

[blue phil]

Atkinson said that one of the Cameroon players didn't have a brain.

"You mean a football brain don't you Ron?" said Brian Moore, his co-commentator, anxious to avoid any complaints. Ron replied: "I'll only get into trouble if his mother is watching the game sitting in a tree."

ITV Sport received seven complaints from satellite viewers abroad who were upset at the remarks.

LOL .

So seven people complained ? How many didn't ?

[Paul Mellelieu]

For god's sake blue phil. What's best is that people don't use vile racist language and that people, whatever their ethnicity, are treated with respect. Is that too much to ask for?

As for older people using that kind of language, well there's bound to be a few, but most would know that it's wrong. Ron has even less defence though, because he's been in an environment where that kind of crap isn't tolerated - and he still routinely uses that kind of bigoted nonsense.

[American]

Ever consider that he used Black players not for any sort of message or big racial statement, but as his best shot to win?

Heck, I'd use my worst enemy if it could help me.

[super_neill]

For god's sake blue phil.  What's best is that people don't use vile racist language and that people, whatever their ethnicity, are treated with respect.  Is that too much to ask for?

As for older people using that kind of language, well there's bound to be a few, but most would know that it's wrong.  Ron has even less defence though, because he's been in an environment where that kind of crap isn't tolerated - and he still routinely uses that kind of bigoted nonsense.

I think you are over reacting slightly, even if work carries on to try and stop racism there will always be people who are racist it's part of our society but having a dig at someone who laughs at a small number of complaints which were for something or nothing is abit harsh. Just because he is a well known tv pundit doesn't make him a non racist, thus being Ron Akinson.

Edited April 26, 2004 by super_neill

[T4E]

Just because he is a well known tv pundit doesn't make him a non racist, thus being Ron Akinson.

Que?

[tcj_jones]

while i definately dont condone ron's comments, i hate the whole racism debate. i dont understand why it has to be such a sensitive issue - people call each other fat and they dont get fired over it. without meaning to cause any offence, i hate how i have to be so careful when refering to a black person. im not racist in any respect but a large part of the black community take offence to being called "coloured," or "black," or "negro." sometimes i dont know how to refer to a black person without being accused of being racist. whats worse is that influential black people such as rappers refer to themselves in the same way that ron atkinson, an influential white man, did. so why is it ok for them to do it and not ron? i think i also speak for the majority who say that when a black person is racist towards the white population, not nearly enough focus is paid to it and in many cases a black person can be just as rasist as a white person.

[thenodrog]

i think i also speak for the majority who say that when a black person is racist towards the white population, not nearly enough focus is paid to it and in many cases a black person can be just as rasist as a white person.

Hence the term 'white niggers'. Coined I understand by Afro-Americans and used to describe Irish Americans.

[Cocker]

Not been following the thread but here is what he said:-

http://www.mcniven.co.uk/audio/

[Rovermatt]

Ron says that when he was younger phrases like "nigger brown" were commonplace,

My elderly neighbour used to have a dark brown cat she called "Nigger."

It was a hell of a cringe when she used to call it in to be fed.

And the black labrador owned by the damnbusters.

See the exchange about that in Series 1 of The Office.

"That was in the the 1940s, before racism was bad."

Absolute comedy gold...

Edited April 27, 2004 by Rovermatt

[Rovermatt]

And the "Ron is old so eh says that kind of thing" is another crap argument.  Most people of Ron's generation do not use that kind of racist language.

Ron should neither have resigned nor apologised . In doing so , he has increased the power of those anti democratic elements in society who wish to curb freedom of speech . Hypocrisy reigns .

For God's sake Phil, it has nothing to do with any raging liberal sentiments or political correctness (oh no! ) gone overboard. You simply cannot go around calling people 'niggers.' It is common sense and common decency.

[thenodrog]

Not been following the thread but here is what he said:-

http://www.mcniven.co.uk/audio/

Is it my imagination or just as Ron uttered his now infamous "he's what is known in some circles as a @#/? big lazy nigger" did the stadium announcer shout 'Au revoir' over the loudspeakers? If so then it's well spooky.

No matter how often I hear his comments about Veron, Ranieri and Desailly I find myself in total agreement with the actual 'meaning' of his summary. I wonder if he would have wound up in some sort of trouble if he had simply missed out that single racist remark.

[DP]

while i definately dont condone ron's comments, i hate the whole racism debate. i dont understand why it has to be such a sensitive issue - people call each other fat and they dont get fired over it. without meaning to cause any offence, i hate how i have to be so careful when refering to a black person. im not racist in any respect but a large part of the black community take offence to being called "coloured," or "black," or "negro." sometimes i dont know how to refer to a black person without being accused of being racist. whats worse is that influential black people such as rappers refer to themselves in the same way that ron atkinson, an influential white man, did. so why is it ok for them to do it and not ron? i think i also speak for the majority who say that when a black person is racist towards the white population, not nearly enough focus is paid to it and in many cases a black person can be just as rasist as a white person.

Why are people comparing Big Ron to a black rapper? OK then, let's do that. If Ice T was working alongside Clive commentating for the Monaco/Chelsea game and came out with the same outburst that Ron did what would happen? He'd lose his job that's what!

[thenodrog]

For God's sake Phil, it has nothing to do with any raging liberal sentiments or political correctness (oh no! ) gone overboard. You simply cannot go around calling people 'niggers.' It is common sense and common decency.

OK but what should be the punishment rovermatt? imo it's been well overdone and RA has been well and truly hung out to dry. The punishment hardly fits the crime does it?

Sure he's from a past generation and may not be bomb-proof enough in this day and age to appear on live commentory, but should that mean that he never appears on pre-recorded tele / radio again? Worse still how come he lost his job on the Guardian? Whats all that about by the pompous gits down there? It's not as if newspapers are much of an example to all is it? They usually walk a very precarious line twixt what is permissable and what isn't. Surely he could never commit that type of indiscretion in print and when buffered by numerous editing processes?

Should he have no further right to make a decent living using the best ability / skill at his disposal as a football pundit?

[thenodrog]

Why are people comparing Big Ron to a black rapper? OK then, let's do that. If Ice T was working alongside Clive commentating for the Monaco/Chelsea game and came out with the same outburst that Ron did what would happen? He'd lose his job that's what!

Yes but Ice T would probably be awarded a fortune at a tribunal for unfair dismissal.

[tcj_jones]

Why are people comparing Big Ron to a black rapper?  OK then, let's do that.  If Ice T was working alongside Clive commentating for the Monaco/Chelsea game and came out with the same outburst that Ron did what would happen?  He'd lose his job that's what!

Yes but Ice T would probably be awarded a fortune at a tribunal for unfair dismissal.

the point i was trying to make is that it is ok for black rap artists(amongst others) to refer to black people as "niggers," and people dont seem to turn their heads because its ok. but if another influential white male does says it, then immediately he is sacked and all over the papers. even in films, when a white person is calling a black person a "nigger," thewn the audience is horrified, yet a black person in a film will call himself it all too often. now rap artists will have their work censored on radio channels and will be given an 18 certificate on cd's, with black racist comments being shown after the watershed - so if ron had said this at 11 oclock, after the watershed, or had it censored then would it have been ok? what i am trying to get at is that the black community should be angry at these people who publicise the racist issue, make it more common and encourage people to use the terms.

and also, as you mention that scenario, no i dont think ice t would be sacked at all. hed simply be given a slap on the wrist and not asked to do it again. because for him its ok to say it! then if he were to be sacked then at the resultant court case, itv would be publically slammed as being racist and ice t would have his job back. it happens all too often. just in work a few months ago, my manager yelled at a black employee, which i was witness to, who then complained she was being racist. he got 3 months paid leave in the time he didnt come into work. that simply would not thave happened if the roles were reversed. i do want to emphasise that i am friends with black people and dont consider myself racist.

Edited April 27, 2004 by tcj_jones

[Ninjathunder]

while i definately dont condone ron's comments, i hate the whole racism debate. i dont understand why it has to be such a sensitive issue - people call each other fat and they dont get fired over it. without meaning to cause any offence, i hate how i have to be so careful when refering to a black person. im not racist in any respect but a large part of the black community take offence to being called "coloured," or "black," or "negro." sometimes i dont know how to refer to a black person without being accused of being racist. whats worse is that influential black people such as rappers refer to themselves in the same way that ron atkinson, an influential white man, did. so why is it ok for them to do it and not ron? i think i also speak for the majority who say that when a black person is racist towards the white population, not nearly enough focus is paid to it and in many cases a black person can be just as rasist as a white person.

Nonsense. How many black people do you know who are offended by being called black? Actually, you've answered the question with your misguided 'im (sic) not racist in any respect but...' rant. You don't know any black people, do you? If you did you would know that both negro and coloured are offensive. FYI so is 'half-caste'.

And, as you and Blue Phil seem to fail to understand, calling a black person a 'nigger' live on TV IS a sackable / resigning offence. Big Ron knows that and is big enough to hold his hands up to it. I don't think he's really a racist but at that moment he used racist language and he understands that it's wrong.

[Ninjathunder]

just in work a few months ago, my manager yelled at a black employee, which i was witness to

If I was witness to such and act I would certainly not automatically discount racism as a factor, as you have. Perhaps you feel it is professional for a manager to yell at their staff in front of others? Or perhaps only the black ones?

[Cheshireblue]

So if I call a black person a "black @#/?" - what part of that statement is the bit that he takes offence at?

Am I being racist? He is, after all, black, so surely I am offending him by calling him a @#/??

If he calls me a "white @#/?" is that racist? I am, after all, white, and frankly there is more than the hint of a @#/? in me. So far from me considering it to be a racist comment, I'm actually inclined to agree with the statement, rather than complain to the commission for racial equality.

[broadsword]

It's the feeling behind the words that counts, and not necessarily what you say ...

[Cheshireblue]

It's the feeling behind the words that counts, and not necessarily what you say ...

So if Big Ron didn't mean it in a racist way, then it doesn't count?

[broadsword]

He made a racist remark, but if he didn't intend to denigrate Desailly because of his skin colour, then he wasn't racist, no.

I think he just had a mental abberation, that's all. He didn't outright call him by the words he used, he said some people would refer to him as *insert Ron's words*.

You never truly know what is going through someone's mind. I can only go with my gut feeling that he isn't a racist, just someone who's prone to making daft unthinking comments.

That said, he had to resign. I just hope he comes back at some stage, but at 65, he probably won't.

[The Producer]

I think he just had a mental abberation, that's all. He didn't outright call him by the words he used, he said some people would refer to him as *insert Ron's words*.

Using the "some people would refer to him" makes it look as though he knew exactly what he was going to say rather than it being a mental abberation.