[Archived] How Far Will England Get

[Sydney Rovers]

to the portugal fans on here

Yes You have had a good team, you have a decent manager but your observations on how England might perform are misjudged.

We have not played the best football yet, we are improving and on a steady roll.

Portugal have no defender to cope with the power and pace of Rooney, not even Couto can cope with him. I forsee dirty tactics employed as really the only threat I see is ruud van nistlenoses diing partner cloonaldo.

England will have done the homework and will be fully prepared.

I expect total revenge for euro 2000 when the Portuguese ruined my first week in Corfu !

2-0 England it is

You are right... It will be hard for Couto to cope with rooney... He is on the bench

Both teams are growing, performing better.

It will be a quite even match. probably decided in the midfield fight.

Maybe 1864 thinks that Rooney will get a red card and Couto will have to chase Rooney down the players tunnel into the grandstand?

I don't think any Portuguese fans is underestimating England, and I've yet to read a comment like that from any of the Portuguese fans on the message board. Oklahoma has pretty much said in the last two sentences above what I think about this game.

Anyway, maybe Portugal will self-destruct like they did in the Semi Final at Euro 2000/World Cup 2002, or maybe England will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory? Who knows, but we'll find out Thursday night.

[philipl]

Thursday night's match has the capacity to be one of the all time great games.

I cannot see England containing Portuguese attacks on either flank and equally expect England's midfielders and forwards to be too mobile for the Portuguese to cope with.

Add in massive levels of sense of destiny (Portugal at home plus done the "difficult" one knocking out Spain and England in with a chance of winning something) and I think this will be a cracker with loads of goal mouth incident.

Would not be surprised if either side took an early 2-0 lead and for the loosing side to produce an inspired fight back.

If England are to win, expect Beckham to hog the Friday morning headlines. He either has to raise his game considerably above the mundane level he has shown so far or Portugal will over-run us once too often. Our passing is too poor to play keep ball against the Portuguese so Beckham will have to produce a non-stop running display combined with hitting passes that really hurt the opposition.

That said, if England do get through, the bogey country Sweden will be waiting for us in the semi-final.

[Hughesy]

England to win 2-0, Owen to score 1st

[Tom Pringle]

Portugal to win with a golden goal

The golden goal thing is still going right?

[Flopsy]

Silver one Tom I think, ie play the first half of extra time if someone is leading by then they win, if not it goes to the end of extra time, if someones winning they win if not penalties

[ABBEY]

SOMEONE TELL ME WHY THE "SUPER "SWEDE SITS THERE AND DRINKS WATER ALL THE TIME INSTEAD OF TRYING TO ENCORAGE THE TROOPS??WHEN IM COACHING THE KIDS I SHOUT ENCORAGEMENT ALL THE TIME AND IF I OR ANOTHER WRESTLINGF COACH SEES A MOVE DEVELOPING WE SHOUT TO THEM??GOD SVEN JUST SITS ON HIS BUM!!!!

[RevidgeBlue]

SOMEONE TELL ME WHY THE "SUPER "SWEDE SITS THERE AND DRINKS WATER ALL THE TIME INSTEAD OF TRYING TO ENCORAGE THE TROOPS??WHEN IM COACHING THE KIDS I SHOUT ENCORAGEMENT ALL THE TIME AND IF I OR ANOTHER WRESTLINGF COACH SEES A MOVE DEVELOPING WE SHOUT TO THEM??GOD SVEN JUST SITS ON HIS BUM!!!!

C'mon Abs poor old Sven only earns £4m p.a.

You don't expect him to encourage them as well for that do you?

That would cost at least £8m p.a.

Seriously though don't think anyone can question the character of the side after the disallowed goal debacle and coming back from a goal down in extra time.

[ABBEY]

NOT questioning charechter rev ,just svens motivationall skills i HONESTLY hand on heart give him 1 out of ten....not just tonight but the brazil game in the world cup was another prime example.I may be a rover6 or a jimbo when it comes to him but i think he is no good for england......a drunk abs call would be maybe reidy ...at least he has pash and cares for england .and as rev says £££££££ is svens

[RevidgeBlue]

NOT questioning charechter rev ,just svens motivationall skills i HONESTLY hand on heart give him 1 out of ten....not just tonight but the brazil game in the world cup was another prime example.I may be a rover6 or a jimbo when it comes to him but i think he is no good for england......a drunk abs call would be maybe reidy ...at least he has pash and cares for england .and as rev says £££££££ is svens

Up to this tournament I'd have been in total agreement with you, but I've actually been quite impressed with the way Sven has got us performing this tournament.

It was only gritty resolve that kept us in it on an off day tonight, and even then we'd have won but for a dodgy ref.

I think if you said his substitutions cost us dearly (Rooney v France) (Scholes and Gerraerd tonight) that might have more merit.

[roversWASmylife]

NOT questioning charechter rev ,just svens motivationall skills i HONESTLY hand on heart give him 1 out of ten....not just tonight but the brazil game in the world cup was another prime example.I may be a rover6 or a jimbo when it comes to him but i think he is no good for england......a drunk abs call would be maybe reidy ...at least he has pash and cares for england .and as rev says £££££££ is svens

Agreed there ABBEY.

As a fan I’d like to think that the manager would show as much passion as I would.

Personally, I think Sven is a good manager. But he lacks that bit of aggression which I think some of the players needed from him.

We didn’t perform well tonight and he’d be the first to admit it. But there’s times in games when things aren’t going well and he has to get them all fired up.

John Motson said that Sven isn’t a manager who rants and raves at the players. But talks to them individually with Steve Mclaren.

It’s not his personality to shout and give them a rollicking. But at times tonight I thought he should have been on the touchline encouraging them when they were looking tired.

I can’t see him being the manager at Germany in two years time.

[rover6]

Why did England lose? Apart from the obvious, penalty shoot-outs and disallowed goals.

It wasn't because Beckham didn't perform or anyone else for that matter.

IMO it was the decision by Sven not to bring on Heskey. This isn't a revisionist theory dreamt up after the event - it was my thought at the time.

England NEED a biggish man who can hold up the ball. Wayne Rooney did it quite well but Vassell and Owen are not naturals at it. Neither a strong in the air BUT think of the number of times Vassell won headers...

When Wayne Rooney went off, England needed a big man who could hold the ball up and worry the Portuguese in the air. THEY WEREN'T STRONG IN THE AIR - even Vassell won headers.

Sven, didn't have the balls to bring on Heskey after his France foul. But we needed Heskey's bulk. Love him or hate him (ok you hate him) but he is a big man who can win headers and hold up the ball. he might not be a goal threat but we needed a bulldozer like him to give Owen space up front and deal with the long balls.

IF Alan Smith had been included, he'd have been the perfect sub. But Sven went for Vassell, and however, hard he worked and he even won some headers, he lacked the physique to hold up the ball and offer England a platform to attack.

You heard it here, we lost that match because Sven didn't bring on Heskey for Rooney.

[LeChuck]

You heard it here, we lost that match because Sven didn't bring on Heskey for Rooney.

Please don't write that like it is fact, because it's not.

We played terrible, Sven made mistakes...but despite all that if we had a half decent referee we would be through.

[bellamy11]

IMO it was the decision by Sven not to bring on Heskey. This isn't a revisionist theory dreamt up after the event - it was my thought at the time.

As more of a Western historian, I would claim that Sven was an important leader, but the way he played was terminally flawed. The left wing was not strong, and it has never been strong. I can't see why people keep suggesting it.

[1864roverite]

and now the frogggies have bitten the dust

makes Englands departure seem nothing compared to the "champions"

[jim mk2]

and now the frogggies have bitten the dust

makes Englands departure seem nothing compared to the "champions"

France have not looked in good order since the championship began.

It's history now I know, but if Beckham had put away that penalty we would have beaten them too.

Shame.

[Eddie]

No way of knowing that. Who knows how Beckham scoring may have changed the mentality of other players and in this way affected how they took their penalties. It's really impossible to say.

[Oklahoma]

No way of knowing that. Who knows how Beckham scoring may have changed the mentality of other players and in this way affected how they took their penalties. It's really impossible to say.

I think he is talking about the penalty against france.

[rover6]

You heard it here, we lost that match because Sven didn't bring on Heskey for Rooney.

Please don't write that like it is fact, because it's not.

We played terrible, Sven made mistakes...but despite all that if we had a half decent referee we would be through.

It was meant to be taken in a light-hearted manner.

I still think that the Vassell for Rooney substitution was one of the factors that resulted in us losing.

Heskey up front would have been able to hold up the ball and allow midfielders to move up the park to join him in attack. Instead we had Owen and Vassell isolated and overpowered, providing no decent possession in the Portuguese half.

Imo, Sven should look for Alan Smith and Wayne Rooney to be first choice partnership for England. They'd compliment each much more than the OWen - Rooney partnership. And it'd mean we might actually have an aerial threat up front.

[joey_big_nose]

You heard it here, we lost that match because Sven didn't bring on Heskey for Rooney.

Please don't write that like it is fact, because it's not.

We played terrible, Sven made mistakes...but despite all that if we had a half decent referee we would be through.

It was meant to be taken in a light-hearted manner.

I still think that the Vassell for Rooney substitution was one of the factors that resulted in us losing.

Heskey up front would have been able to hold up the ball and allow midfielders to move up the park to join him in attack. Instead we had Owen and Vassell isolated and overpowered, providing no decent possession in the Portuguese half.

Imo, Sven should look for Alan Smith and Wayne Rooney to be first choice partnership for England. They'd compliment each much more than the OWen - Rooney partnership. And it'd mean we might actually have an aerial threat up front.

I agree that Owen should maybe be dropped in favour for a more powerful striker. On the other hand a forward needs to score goals which Smith has not done consistently although that might change at Man Utd. Rooney, despite his amazing form for England, is not an out and out goal scorer either, prefering to drop deep.

I would suggest, even if I am little biased, Stead is (if he improves in the air) the ideal partner for Rooney with good technique and link up play along with an eye for goal. He needs to be better with his back to goal too, but the potential is there. If it is a big chap we need up front then it is really a two horse race at the moment between Smith and Stead. I am very optimistic about our jon's chances of breaking in to the squad next season.

[LeChuck]

Apologies rover6...it was a bit early to be trying something light-hearted so soon after the game though.

JBN: I agree with the last paragraph...in fact one player who reminds me of our Stead is Ibrahimovich...they're very similar players in my opinion, except Ibrahimovich has far more body strength at the moment which means he can contest the physical battles much better.

If Smith starts scoring goals for Man Utd however then he could take the shirt quite easily...actually forget the goals, he plays for Man Utd so that should be enough. Just ask Phil Neville.

Edited June 27, 2004 by LeChuck

[Exiled_Rover]

You cannot possibly drop Owen, he's one of the few World Class players we have

[rover6]

You cannot possibly drop Owen, he's one of the few World Class players we have

Of course we can drop Owen.

Next year Alan Smith will be playing in the Champions League for Man U. If he makes a real impression and proves that he can score goals and control his temper, surely he should come in ahead of Owen.

Rooney needs a more physical player alongside him who'll give him freedom to roam and receive knock-downs. Owen can't provide that.

[roversWASmylife]

You cannot possibly drop Owen, he's one of the few World Class players we have

Of course we can drop Owen.

Next year Alan Smith will be playing in the Champions League for Man U. If he makes a real impression and proves that he can score goals and control his temper, surely he should come in ahead of Owen.

Rooney needs a more physical player alongside him who'll give him freedom to roam and receive knock-downs. Owen can't provide that.

Good point made rover6.

Smith has all the attributes to be a top quality striker. He hasn’t shown this yet because for most of last season he had to play in midfield for Leeds.

If he starts with Ruud next season then they will be a deadly partnership. Both who are strong and physical.

Drop Owen? Why not? If a player isn’t performing then he should be dropped. It doesn’t matter who the player is or how good they are. If the player isn’t producing the goods then they have to be dropped.

Owen had a good World Cup and up to the point of when Shearer was around for England because Shearer was brilliantly strong and created a lot of space for Owen.

This tournament Owen has been poor, I wouldn’t drop him straight away however if he fails to produce it in the World Cup Qualifiers then Owen must be in consideration to be dropped.

Rooney and Smith up front, that doesn’t sound too bad.

[American]

Rooney and Smith up front, that doesn’t sound too bad.

If you like having your strikers sent off it doesn't.

I like Rooney as a player, but Smith is WAY overrated as far as I'm concerned. He'll have a hard time getting starts for Man United next season, even if they go with 2 strikers, he'll be 3rd choice.

[roversWASmylife]

Rooney and Smith up front, that doesn’t sound too bad.

If you like having your strikers sent off it doesn't.

I like Rooney as a player, but Smith is WAY overrated as far as I'm concerned. He'll have a hard time getting starts for Man United next season, even if they go with 2 strikers, he'll be 3rd choice.

True but the point that rover6 made was that if Smith calms his temper down then he would be considered.

Smith and Rooney sounds like a good partnership because there’s skill, pace and the physical presence from both of them up front.

Owen doesn’t have the physical presence and that’s what he lacks. You need everything at international level because you’re playing the best. Rooney has it, Owen doesn’t.

It doesn’t necessarily make Owen a bad player, because he has the pace and the ability to finish goals.

The other night against Portugal when Rooney went off we were poor. Long balls kept being hoofed up the pitch and what for? There was Vassell and Owen, both who aren’t going to win every header, that’s where a player like Smith could come into.

Or the other argument could be why didn’t Heskey come on? He’s big, strong and powerful and would have won a lot of headers.

Personally, Heskey`s time in International Football is over. He hasn’t scored enough goals both at domestic level or internationally.

Edited June 27, 2004 by roversismylife