[Archived] Hooligans Yet Again

[Oklahoma]

wtf?

what do you want Uefa to do?

If so called english football fans cause problems, is it other people to blame?

Whether you like it or not, this is football related. Every year, lots of english turists go to Albufeira and nothing happened till now.

Don't tell me there is a world wide conspiracy against England...

Reazonable people here know that 99,9% of english fans are good people that like football.

Btw, some of them are already going back to england.

[FourLaneBlue]

How is it football related? Was it outside a stadium? During a game? Or was it in reality far away from where England are playing tonight and therefore not football related at all???

[Oklahoma]

i'm just making the same point you did, trying to be as ironic as you.

What does Portugal crimes have to do with the Euro?

[blue phil]

Actually it was anti-yob.

Strange you should equate English with yob.

No Philip , the Guardian article was distinctly anti English and it was the "author" of the article who was putting forward the theory that yobbism and being English are somehow indistinguishable .

"Collective responsibility" of a whole nation for the misdeeds of a few of its citizens ? Good grief - what a let off clause for the yobs .

Typical Guardian hand wringing garbage .

Edited June 17, 2004 by blue phil

[FourLaneBlue]

Sorry Oklahama- I think I got mixed up there and I am agreeing with you!

Exactly- what do any crimes away from the stadium have to do with Euro 2004? There are more English fans in Portugal than from any other nation (apart from the Porugese obviously) and very, very few of those will be involved in any trouble. The vast majority will go, have a good time and be a huge benefit to the Portugese economy.

Unfortunately in some parts of the media all we hear apart are the tiny numbers that do make trouble. It is irritating but a lot of people do think all football fans are thugs. Yes, they are ignorant but their ignorance is fuelled by the sensationalist reports in the press and on TV.

Yet soueyisgod complains about it being "Funny how the english press are playing down what happened" in the first post in this thread. That's strange- he has previously said that nobody else knows about Spanish football because they don't live there yet he knows about the English press even though he is in Spain?

Tales of football violence have dominating news schedules for a number of days and even before the tournament kicked off there were loads of stories about it. This is what people are getting irritated about- the actions of the criminal few are being rammed down our throats whereas the peaceful and friendly majority are ignored. I'm getting sick and tired of all the sensationalist reporting. Give a dog a bad name and he'll have it for life...it's about time we heard less about England fans having such a bad name.

About time the good and decent people of England got their football team back.

[Oklahoma]

Have any of you seen the documentary "Bowling for Columbine" by Michael Moore?

At some point, he asks a reporter how they choose the biggest story.

The answer: " if it bleeds, it leads"

~

Guess english media do the same.

[Blackburn Ender]

FLB, I agree with your sentiments, but unfortunately the history of England fans (and people) causing trouble at football tournaments around the world goes back decades and marks England out as a special case.

Hooliganism is not called the English disease for nothing, you know.

Some of the media may be guilty of sensationalism or liberal hand-wringing, but they are still only reporting what these men get up to.

You only need think how Brazil or Scotland or Scandinavian supporters behave en masse at World Cups, etc, to see how shabby these idiots make all English supporters look by comparison.

I don't like it and having been abroad following England I also know that the small stupid minority make it that much harder for decent fans to give a good impression.

[Radagast]

Have any of you seen the documentary "Bowling for Columbine" by Michael Moore?

At some point, he asks a reporter how they choose the biggest story.

The answer: " if it bleeds, it leads"

~

Guess english media do the same.

It was probably, like most of the 'documentary', staged, but the point is a good one.

[Oklahoma]

Have any of you seen the documentary "Bowling for Columbine" by Michael Moore?

At some point, he asks a reporter how they choose the biggest story.

The answer: " if it bleeds, it leads"

~

Guess english media do the same.

It was probably, like most of the 'documentary', staged, but the point is a good one.

probably that scene was also staged.

American media always look for the violent crime and forget other important issues.

Edited June 17, 2004 by Oklahoma

[American]

Have any of you seen the documentary "Bowling for Columbine" by Michael Moore?

At some point, he asks a reporter how they choose the biggest story.

The answer: " if it bleeds, it leads"

~

Guess english media do the same.

It was probably, like most of the 'documentary', staged, but the point is a good one.

Probably one of the few parts of the documentary that wasn't staged or "creatively edited," but that is a very common saying in the media over here. And the ratings show that sensationalistic news like that is what the people want to see. They talk about how outraged they are, but then tune in.

A big problem the English have is perception. When we went to London for a few matches this season, and told of our plans to go to Germany in 2006, all we heard was that we had to watch out for all of the hooligans. Never saw even a hint of a problem in the 3 matches we went to. Most of the "problems" seem to occur late at night around closing time, just like most alcohol related problems and fights. The big thing seems to be the overreaction. They talk about the arrests, but in places all over the world, that many arrests are made as the bars are closing.

[philipl]

Payton in Portugal

So that's why the trouble started.

[FourLaneBlue]

FLB, I agree with your sentiments, but unfortunately the history of England fans (and people) causing trouble at football tournaments around the world goes back decades and marks England out as a special case.

Hooliganism is not called the English disease for nothing, you know.

Yes I agree but no way can these people be termed fans when they committed their actions. Thugs yes, English yes, criminals yes... but fans...it's utterly irrelevant when England are playing hundreds of miles away!!!

I don't give a damn what tournament is on, the national team or the FA have nothing to do with the actions of these people away from the immediate area of the football ground. Now I know I'm probably preaching to the converted but ITV (not seen the BBC coverage) is putting forth that this is football hooliganism. It's only half right. It is hooliganism, simple as that. I'm not going to say they aren't proper football fans because many probably are (just because people like a fight dosn't mean they can't like football) but their actions cannot be connected to football just because they support a team. That is why I mentioned the absurd notion that Portugal should be chucked out because there have been murders in the country this year. It's unconnected to football- just my point! That was he joke! If some thug puts through the window of a bar don't blame football- blame that thug. Now that's personal responisbility, being responsible for their own actions. Next time I get a library fine maybe I should blame being an England fan? Yes I'm taking it to extremes but so much crap is spoken about hooliganism that it isn't that daft in this context. Personal responsibility. I'm sure most people would do this anyway but not all...some have selective prejudices. They find loathe racism, ageism and sexism but are happy to brand all who support England as brainless thugs.

England fans deservedly have a bad reputation but it isn't helped when incidents of drunken holidaymakers (whether or not it has happened before in that area does not mean it is related to football) is thrown at their door.

Blackburn Ender - I did mention before in this thread that England fans are headline news but it still doesn't excuse such biased, sensationalist and almost unethical journalism we see from papers and TV. They are supposed to report what happens but unfortunately they only ever report the juicy stuff, they don't even have a passing reference to the rest of the fans most of the time. Anything for those juicy sales/ratings....

OK, rant over....I'll shut up now for a change and give someone else a chance!

[Oklahoma]

Payton in Portugal

So that's why the trouble started.

don't even know who the guy is but it is an interesting perspective.

The "we weren't doing anything" theory!!

[blue phil]

Payton in Portugal

So that's why the trouble started.

don't even know who the guy is but it is an interesting perspective.

The "we weren't doing anything" theory!!

He's an ex pro footballer and even though he's a dingle his story has the ring of truth about it .

There are those however who would argue that he was probably pi$$ed up at the time and hiding in the nearest wardrobe.......

[Oklahoma]

It depends on how quick he was to get out of there

I guess there are always innocent by-standers when something like this happens.

I'm just not sure everyone was innocent.

On a different note, a english lady drove around like mad around albufeira.

She was arrested later. She was completely drunk!!

[jim mk2]

[ They are supposed to report what happens but unfortunately they only ever report the juicy stuff, .....

Err, that's why it's called news. It's what sells newspapers and makes people watch TV. If the buffons purporting to be England "fans" had not terrorised half of Portugal, there would be nothing to report.

Please engage brain before posting drivel.

[American]

pot... kettle....

[1864roverite]

jim

NEWS is the fact that 30 plus innocents were slaughtered in Iraq by COWARDS

the fact that a few English clowns had a sunshine brawl with the local old bill is NOT !

Cant believe the TV news sensationalising the idiots giving them high profiles and martyrdom whilst those poor Iraqi families mourn lost ones.

yep

thats news alright

[ABBEY]

jims incontinence pants ripped and he ruined his pc ....now thats news.

[1864roverite]

No trenny

thats funny

[ptholt]

I find it quite amusing to read about the various supposed 'fans' (which is the wrong word for them totally) that were arrested in Albufeira.

Complaints of dirty jail cells, police with little/no sympathy keeping them awake during the night, being to aggressive etc.

Just to shed a little between the ears of those with nothing there, this isn't the uk were talking about here, Portugal has not been blighted with laws and politicians who want to give criminals more rights than innocents, the UK is fast disappearing round the u-bend, one of the reasons i moved over, here its become a country where you can't display your national flag for fear of upsetting someone, a country where if you hurt strike a burglar in your own house with the wife and kids upstairs you can end up on a charge worse than the breaking and entering charge the burglar would get.

A friend in the 'met' was explaining to me once how when he has to arrest people the have to do so with sufficient police witnesses in case the person being arrested claims the police used excess force which would allow him to more or less walk free, in other cases the other officers are there to prevent the person from being arrested intimidating the arresting officer to strike him so he can counter sue.

Unfortunately for the idiots in Albufeira the police here are not bound by pathetic legislation, so if you throw things at them, your likely to get wrapped around the head with a truncheon and generally put somewhere not very pleasant called jail, its not supposed to be nice or fun with tvs/dvds/video books, magazines and courses as we have in the UK, the ones here are what prisons are supposed to be, a punishment.

Personally i'd have preferred the idiots involved to have to do there time in a Portuguese prison as i fear when they return with there sentences to the uk they will probably get 4 months community service as according to there relatives there all little angels who don't possess a violent bone in there body, but im fairly sure a 7 month stretch in a Portuguese prison would have been an eye opener for any of them thinking of attending future sporting events in foreign countries and not to be so niave to think that foreign police forces are as hog tied as our own.

[Ricky]

I have just returned from Portugal and would like to put Jims comments into perspective. The England fans have NOT terrorised half of Portugal, none of the reported trouble has been anywhere near the towns England are playing in. I have spent the last week in Lourinha, Lisbon, Leira, Marquiteira, Peniche, Areie De branca to name a few. The locals have welcomed us, the opposing teams fans have also been keen to have a kick around or play volleyball. I have seen absolutely no trouble at all.

The problems have all been in the Algarve (the other end of the country to where England are playing). There have been reports of heavy handed policing which never helps in these incidents. You come out of a bar at 1.30 am and have police on horseback, police with riot gear and dogs. It only takes one idiot to say something and it all kicks off. The real England supporters should not all be painted with the same brush.

I have met some amazing people over the last week, some have followed England to every game for the last 10 years or so. They have also highlighted the press' misconception of the typical England fan.

I'm sure you would have been keen to report the kick about between england fans and swiss fans in Coimbra, or the english and French fans sharing a drink in Lisbon but it doesn't sell papers does it Jim, you stick to your view that all England fans are Hooligans and keep reporting it in the papers, thats what people want to hear and the press love to write.

[Paul]

I have edited a number of uneccessary posts out of this thread.

Any problems - I'll empty my PM box now

We are all entitled to our views on England, Portugal, fans, hooligans, the red tops and the media in general. That doesn't justify direct insults. No more please.

[Rover_Shaun]

Payton in Portugal

So that's why the trouble started.

That URL is now used for a different story. The one below works

Payton in Portugal

How did he see the trouble from inside his wardrobe

The trouble in portugal is akin to the scene outside jumping jacks every saturday night and not even worth a second look. If people stopped reading the b*llshit articles they wouldn't keep writing them........as for the anti-english, guardianistas at the BBC they have long been a disgrace

Edited June 18, 2004 by Blue and White Army

[Ricky]

If people stopped reading the b*llshit articles they wouldn't keep writing them........as for the anti-english, guardianistas at the BBC they have long been a disgrace

Absolutely spot on. The trouble that has been reported is similar to trouble you see in every holiday resort, I'm not condoning it but it is a fact that there is trouble in the Algarve with British Holiday makers every year. We should be focusing on that and not trying to link it to the football.

I'm suprised nobody has picked up on the massive problems in Birmingham and London after the France defeat. There were fights over here too, I suppose that was all down to the fans over in Lisbon as well was it!!!!.