[Archived] England 1 - 2 France

[ABBEY]

CANT BELIEVE JAMES!!!!FREE KICK TO HIS SIDE NEVER MOVED HIS ASS.....AS FOR DIVING IN FOR THE PEN ...SEND HIM OFF NEXT TIME PLEASE!!!!!!!!WTF GERRARD WAS DOING NO IDEA.

[super_neill]

France will by no means be happy with their performance they know they got out of jail and won't get away with it with any other teams but because they were playing us it was all ok i hate football sometimes

[percy]

The result was disappointing to put it lightly, but from what I saw of Switzerland and Croatia I still think we'll go through to the next round.

Defensively we were solid : Campbell was as good as ever, King looked like he had played in that position for years and Cole and Neville worked hard in the full back positions. We didn't really have enough of the ball upfront to really test their defence, although Rooney looked superb.

My only complaints were that we were too defensive in midfield in the 2nd half. France were getting 20-25 yards out and piling players forward before a challenge was being put in, which in my opinion is perhaps asking for trouble. Despite that, our defence handled the attacks brilliantly and played very well.

I thought our most disappointing player was Scholes - he wasn't ambitious enough on the ball and was a complete liability when the opposition had the ball. His tracking back was almost non-existant, as was his picking players up off the ball. He also seemed alot slower than the other England players in closing the opposition down. Hargreaves looked alot fitter and more determined when he came on. Overall, Scholes looked jaded and lacking in confidence - we can't afford to carry a player like that against one of the best teams in the world.

Did anyone notice that on Rooney's run which led to the penalty, Vassell was unmarked for a simple square pass to put him one on one with Barthez? Rooney didn't even look up, he was so determined to get into the box and score!

Beckham's penalty was unlucky, credit to Barthez for getting a couple of yards off his line and saving it (not that I'm bitter of course). 2-0 would have finished the game off. Zidane's freekick & penalty were both superb and unstoppable - the sign of a genuine world class player

I hope the usual witch-hunts don't start - I don't blame Beckham, Heskey, Gerrard or anyone else and hopefully, the media won't either. For the 1st 45mins we were the better team. The 2nd 45mins we tried to defend the lead and almost got away with it. Keep your heads up - we have the ability to beat Croatia and Switzerland, let's hope tonight's result fires the players up to take the game to them.

Tonight's result was a very painful and upsetting affair, but it's not over yet - we've been 120 seconds away from taking at least a point from arguably the best team in the world. Switzerland and Croatia won't be able to dominate us like France did in the 2nd half and they'll also struggle to contain Rooney if he keeps tonight's tempo up. England fans were brilliant as well, it was almost a home-match atmosphere for the England team.

[Paul]

I can't see how you can blame the PL when the majority of that French side play in it.

I'm not blaming the PL, I'm suggesting the real quality players in our top sides are not English. The consequence is that England go to a European tournament with an above average team but one that lacks any creative players. When we run up against a team made up of PL stars it show what is lacking in the current crop of English players.

England didn't trouble the French tonight other than Lampard's goal and Rooney's run for the penalty. Sure we held France at bay for 89 minutes but this was an England international team reduced to defending on the edge of the box, and deeper, and hoofing the ball upfield. Even the ITV commentary team conceded France were superior and had an enormous amount of poessesion.

Talk about Arsenal and who do we talk about?

[trueblue]

Vassell was unmarked for a simple square pass to put him one on one with Barthez? Rooney didn't even look up, he was so determined to get into the box and score!

Which is why, in my opinion, Rooney should not even be in the squad... Greedy Git !!!!!!

[roversWASmylife]

CANT BELIEVE JAMES!!!!FREE KICK TO HIS SIDE NEVER MOVED HIS ASS.....AS FOR DIVING IN FOR THE PEN ...SEND HIM OFF NEXT TIME PLEASE!!!!!!!!WTF GERRARD WAS DOING NO IDEA.

I don’t think you can blame James for the free kick.

The incidents building up to it, Heskey had no need to foul Vieria.

From behind the goal it showed James slightly move to the left before Zidane struck the free kick. James also didn’t see it until it was up and over the wall.

The free kick was World Class and I doubt any keeper would have saved it.

The penalty, Gerrard showed his lack of experience there. The easy option was to let Ashley Cole hit it up the field.

The penalty by Zidane again was class, unstoppable.

You can’t blame James for both the free kick and the penalty. Both were class.

He did foul Henry however at least he made an attempt in trying to stop Henry one on one, which probably resulted in a goal.

Gerrard was at fault and from his personality he’ll be man enough to admit to it I’m sure.

Eriksson remains upbeat

[FourLaneBlue]

It's not quite all doom and gloom, a win and a draw will almost certainly be enough to see us through in second place as I certainly can't see either Switzerland or Croatia beating France. England always produce their best results when they are up against it.

One thing though- I now think France are on to win the tournament. They are the luckiest national side there has ever been. They won the World Cup in 98 and Euro 2000 thanks to shedloads of luck. which of course you do usually need. If they weren't getting though on goalden goals or penalty shootouts then Ronaldo was having a fit before a game or Del Piero was missing easy chances to finish them off. Another win to France, the best teams often are also the luckiest as well.

Although France controlled the game I don't remember them creating too many clear-cut chances which is why I thought a draw would have been fair as on the occasions we did attack we looked dangerous. Overall we were beating an excellent side in injury time and only a good team can do that. We always do best when up against it so....

Roll on the Swiss!

[Manchester Blue]

I can't see how you can blame the PL when the majority of that French side play in it.

I'm not blaming the PL, I'm suggesting the real quality players in our top sides are not English. The consequence is that England go to a European tournament with an above average team but one that lacks any creative players. When we run up against a team made up of PL stars it show what is lacking in the current crop of English players.

England didn't trouble the French tonight other than Lampard's goal and Rooney's run for the penalty. Sure we held France at bay for 89 minutes but this was an England international team reduced to defending on the edge of the box, and deeper, and hoofing the ball upfield. Even the ITV commentary team conceded France were superior and had an enormous amount of poessesion.

Talk about Arsenal and who do we talk about?

I'm not disputing France were technically better but what did they create? How many real saves did James have to make? That's what frustrates, we didn't play well but we didn't have to. We sat back too much at the start of the 2nd half but then sorted it and were never looking in trouble. Then they sent dobbin on and the rest is history. Forget the penalties or anythig else if Muffin the Mule had stayed grazing in the fields we would have won that game end of story.

[FourLaneBlue]

Talk about Arsenal and who do we talk about?

Sol Campbell tonight if we are being fair as he was far and away the best Arsenal player on the pitch.

We were leading France in injury time so why you think we don't have the players I don't know unless it is a gut reaction to the disappointing last couple of minutes. While France had a lot of the ball they didn't do that much with it. A great moment from Zidane and a bizarre loss of control from Gerrard (who shouldn't even have played the ball and instead left it Ashley Cole) does not mean there is something wrong with our league.

You're disappointed but it's only a group match, let's just pick ourselves up, stiffen our upper lip and get on with it. It's the English way....

[Tim Southampton Rover]

im just gutted.

cant really describe how i feel at the moment.

I feel the same as i did when we lost to Brazil in the World Cup.

I don't think that anyone deserves to be blamed for that performance as we played very good football and really looked threatening at times.

Well done lads, better luck next time.

Switzerland, beware of the 3 lions.

[percy]

You're disappointed but it's only a group match, let's just pick ourselves up, stiffen our upper lip and get on with it. It's the English way....

Jolly well said, old chap.

More tea and cake Mr FLB ?

[roversactive]

Liverpool 0-2 France

what happened to the liverpool team that beat Germany 5-1 (sarc!)

Owen contributed Little to none

Heskey didn't need to foul in that area - clumsy

Gerrard, what was he thinking! Volleying it back to the keeper, why not boot it into row ZZZ or further up the pitch?

[Paul]

Manchester Blue

I'm not disputing France were technically better but what did they create?

Agreed not a great deal which must be down to England's good defending. England didn't create either yet this was a far from boring game which the French side controlled for long periods.

FLB

does not mean there is something wrong with our league.

I don't suggest there is anyhting wrong with the PL but do question, after tonight's match, the effect it has on producing influential, creative English players. It's just an observation rather than a gut reaction.

The side has been together for a while now, several players should be at or reaching their peak. On the basis of this performance that peak will not be as European champions.

[bazza]

The gulf between the French side and England was very significant and really showed the direction the advent of the PL has taken our game.

Spot on, Paul.

There is a massive gulf between the way England play and the way France play. The best team were losing 1-0 for 45 minutes tonight.

I had hoped for a 1-1 draw at 87 minutes (before Heskey commited the foul which led to Zidane's free kick and goal) but, though gutted, cannot complain about the result.

The French people, through their government's policies over several decades, have produced QUALITY footballers; as well as a quality rail network and other quality stuff.

WHEN OH WHEN will a British government start to do similar??

I know England are not Britain but you get my meaning?

[youandwhosearmy]

The gulf between the French side and England was very significant and really showed the direction the advent of the PL has taken our game.

Spot on, Paul.

There is a massive gulf between the way England play and the way France play. The best team were losing 1-0 for 45 minutes tonight.

I had hoped for a 1-1 draw at 87 minutes (before Heskey commited the foul which led to Zidane's free kick and goal) but, though gutted, cannot complain about the result.

The French people, through their government's policies over several decades, have produced QUALITY footballers; as well as a quality rail network and other quality stuff.

WHEN OH WHEN will a British government start to do similar??

I know England are not Britain but you get my meaning?

sorry but i think you know f all

we defended the game, AS ANY country would in our situation, france never really looked like scoring, and anyone who says differently know sweet fa

luck luck luck

[roversWASmylife]

The gulf between the French side and England was very significant and really showed the direction the advent of the PL has taken our game.

Spot on, Paul.

There is a massive gulf between the way England play and the way France play. The best team were losing 1-0 for 45 minutes tonight.

I had hoped for a 1-1 draw at 87 minutes (before Heskey commited the foul which led to Zidane's free kick and goal) but, though gutted, cannot complain about the result.

The French people, through their government's policies over several decades, have produced QUALITY footballers; as well as a quality rail network and other quality stuff.

WHEN OH WHEN will a British government start to do similar??

I know England are not Britain but you get my meaning?

sorry but i think you know f all

we defended the game, AS ANY country would in our situation, france never really looked like scoring, and anyone who says differently know sweet fa

luck luck luck

That’s the thing, all we did in the second half was defend.

No matter how well we played that’s all we defend, mind you we did defend brilliantly at times with King and Campbell.

My point is that we allowed France to dictate the play of the game. It was only a matter of time before they scored; they passed the ball whenever they wanted in the second half.

We didn’t pressure them enough; we stood of them and got the tackle in round our box.

Which is too close to the goal, if a foul’s conceded through this, it’ll lead to a goal scoring opportunity like Zidane`s free kick.

We looked dangerous through Rooney and that was about it. His run at the French defence was brilliant, if Silvestre walks it could have been a different story and it certainly would have been a different story if Beckham would have converted.

We played well, but allowed them to play, watching the highlights on BBC, at times France were allowed to string 8/9 passes together without being challenged or put under pressure.

France didn’t look like scoring up till about 70minutes. Where we sat back, they’re a quality team on their day and it only took a bit of brilliance from the man in the number ten to punish us.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Look on the bright side: just think how really gutted we'd all be if that happened to the Rovers.

[T4E]

Look on the bright side: just think how really gutted we'd all be if that happened to the Rovers.

Correct. I doubt it feels anywhere near as bad as Charlton this season.

[AlanK]

Can`t believe you people can even muster enough energy for a debate.

Gutted,deflated, don`t care who`s fault it was. 1-0 up after 90 mins.....

[rock steady]

england are stilll sure to go through. eriksson is a tosser, as is beckham. what were those substitutions about? answers on a postcard.

at least croatia and switzerland are terrible

david james..................are u sure?

[youandwhosearmy]

Look on the bright side: just think how really gutted we'd all be if that happened to the Rovers.

Correct. I doubt it feels anywhere near as bad as Charlton this season.

im more gutted about this result than most rovers results, including the charlton game

the only ones which rank this bad, is the england vs brazil game, and the day we were relagated

i couldnt be more devastated

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

In simplistic terms, four individual mistakes have cost us the match tonight.

1) Eriksson's decision to take off Rooney, who was causing the French problems, replacing him with the error-prone Heskey. One of the most dodgy substitutions from an England manager since Alf Ramsey took off Bobby Charlton against Germany in Mexico 1970.

2) Heskey's own stupidity in making such a rash challenge in a dangerous area in front of the box.

3) Gerrard's moment of carelessness when he launched his crazy back pass. I'm a big admirer of Gerrard's midfield abilities, but I can't understand what he was doing. Whether it was partly down to tiredness and a subsequent lack of concentration, I don't know. But it was a foolishly dangerous thing to do. David James obviously couldn't have picked the ball up with his hands anyway. He would have had to kick it away from danger - which is what Gerrard should have done himself.

4) The fairly mediocre penalty by the number 7. It was the right height for Barthez, and he was able to read the direction reasonably easily.

Despite the disappointment of tonight, I still feel we can qualify from the group stages, as Switzerland and Croatia both looked very poor in their match.

[Scotty]

In simplistic terms, four individual mistakes have cost us the match tonight.

1) Eriksson's decision to take off Rooney, who was causing the French problems, replacing him with the error-prone Heskey. One of the most dodgy substitutions from an England manager since Alf Ramsey took off Bobby Charlton against Germany in Mexico 1970.

2) Heskey's own stupidity in making such a rash challenge in a dangerous area in front of the box.

3) Gerrard's moment of carelessness when he launched his crazy back pass. I'm a big admirer of Gerrard's midfield abilities, but I can't understand what he was doing. Whether it was partly down to tiredness and a subsequent lack of concentration, I don't know. But it was a foolishly dangerous thing to do. David James obviously couldn't have picked the ball up with his hands anyway. He would have had to kick it away from danger - which is what Gerrard should have done himself.

4) The fairly mediocre penalty by the number 7. It was the right height for Barthez, and he was able to read the direction reasonably easily.

Despite the disappointment of tonight, I still feel we can qualify from the group stages, as Switzerland and Croatia both looked very poor in their match.

I agree with your other points AESF but I'd argue with point 1. Rooney looked knackered and had to be replaced. To be fair, one thing Heskey can do usually is hold the ball up so it made sense to put him on. He should just have never gone anywhere near our area.

The bottom line is that if we'd have scored the penalty it would have been game over and we could have got the cigars out for the last twenty minutes.

The positive thing to come from tonight though was that we matched the French without even playing particularly well ourselves. Yes, France had lots of possession and kept the ball far better than we did, but they hardly created a chance and never got behind our defence. If we play them again it'll be equally as close. Hopefully we'll get the rub of the green next time.

[Blue blood]

Dissapointing, although not suprising. To be fair France deserved it; in the second half we just sat back and whilst France didn't create much we were asking for them to score. Thought France had a decent shout for a penalty when Neville handballed it. If they had scored that with much longer to go it could have been worse than 2-1.

Having said that it was really close but you could see we were three positions in the team where we were not world class. Firstly up front, Owen - Rooney didn't seem to work at all; Owen was poor and Rooney showed his inexperience when he should have squared it to Vassel. Also thought his temperment was a bit suspect, which forced Eriksson to bring on Hesky, who did very well - for France. (Whyat was he doing? Three players surrounding the French guy so he decides to take him out, unbelievable.)

Second left midfielder - Scholes did okay but there were several times when we played very narrow and didn't create much down the left side. I can recall 2 or 3 occassions where if Scholes had a left foot he'd have been in a good position to cross in some decent balls. That would have just given us that bit more attacking presence and might have given France less oportunity to get forward.

Finally the keeper. I'm not too dissapointed about the free kick - it had me fooled, but both parts of the penalty were nasty. Although it was a hideous ball from Gerrard I still think James could have done better with it - like try to force Henry wider, there was a good chance he would have scored but it could have easily been overrun. As for diving too early on the penalty...

Today showed that whilst we've the quality to get through the group, that we're way off the pace to coming close to winning it.

[FourLaneBlue]

Have to disagree that France deserved to win. If you can name one decent opportunity they created then I may change my mind but the only attacking threat they posed was at set pieces which we needlessly gave away. Sure they passed the ball about nicely but as Rovers proved at Celtic Park that's not much use if you have the attacking strength of a plastic spoon. Which was some going for England to keep the likes of Trezeguet, Pires, Henry and Zidane (until injury time...) so quiet.

Not too sure about Rooney looking tired either; as he'd just been on a fantastic run from the half way line to earn us a penalty that doesn't hold up too well. Maybe I'm just thinking that though after what happened. Besides, why put on someone to hold the ball up? The French defenders when tiring would have been susceptible to some pace and a ball knocked over the top and a pacy striker could leave them for dead. Probably because Sven decided to take Heskey to Portugal instead of Jermaine Defoe that's why...

Oh well...turd happens so let's not be all depressed....we can save that for when we get knocked out on penalties by the Germans!

Edited June 13, 2004 by FourLaneBlue