[Archived] England 1 - 2 France

[Dr Rich]

I thought England were outstanding last night, completely in control of the game against supposedly the best side in the world who had resorted to punting long balls into the box, and then the completely inept manager decides to make needless substitutions that totally disrupt the defensive solidity of the team. Vassell for Owen? Maybe, the little Welshie was wrecked from all the hard off the ball work that he'd been putting in making space for Rooney, who had a superb game especially in the second half. Why on earth where Hargreaves and Heskey on the pitch? Why on earth where they in the squad? The French had effectively thrown in the towel, they were arguing amongst themselves, had a complete lack of ideas, and showed the same inability to break down a packed defence as they did at the last World Cup.

Heskey must be the thickest player ever to play football, Claude Makelele 30 yards out, with two banks of 4 between the goal and him, what do you do? Let him run at the defence and almost certainly lose possession, let him shoot into row ZZ? Nah, run into him like a clumsy oaf and let arguably the best player in the world have a free shot from 30 yards.

Thought Beckham was outstanding myself, penalty wasn't as bad as everyone is making out, was a great save by Barthez. Lampard and Gerrard were very impressive, although the later tried too hard to drive the team forward on his own, like he's done all season at Liverpool, at the end and cost the game, should never have been put in the position where he felt he had to do things like that to influence the result though. Even Scholes played well, caused havoc drifting all over the place when England had the ball, but made sure he got back and defended, virtually negating Pires when the French got possession.

Campbell and King were outstanding in central defence, Neville didn't do anything drastically wrong, Cole looked like a little boy lost but it didn't have any major consequences. James didn't do much at all, had no choice but to give away the penalty, the postioning of both himself and the wall on the free-kick was a bit dodgy, seemed like he was trying to second-guess Zidane, a situation he was always going to come out the loser in.

That game should have been won, it wasn't, for exactly the same reason England didn't beat Brazil at the last World Cup, it wasn't the fault of any Englishman, it was a Swede, who is heralded as the ultimate manager, despite the fact that he has done nothing that could be considered a major achievement in his career, won the Italian league by spending Chelskiesque sums, scrapped World Cup qualification thanks to last minute Beckham brilliance and a dodgy Greek keeper, qualified for the Euro Champs by getting past a self-combusting Turkish outfit, who went on to lose to the mighty Latvia. Eriksson is a joke, the FA should have let him go to Chelsea, they should have gift-wrapped him, stuck a big bow round him and sent him to the Bridge by registered post.

[bob fleming]

Oh yeah, forgot to ask.

Does Michael Owen still play for England? We looked like we only had Rooney up front last night...

Exactly. He wasn't even on the bench as far as I could tell.

Still never mind all that, seeing as we always need a scapegoat I'm going to choose David James. Why have a wall when you hide behind it and can't see where the ball is going? Why have hands when you can tackle with your feet, badly?

Why wasn't he sent off? If that was the Premier League he'd have been off in seconds.

Still - all is not lost. No one, I don't care who, will look forward to playing England, and that includes France.

[RevidgeBlue]

Calm down dears it's only England not Rovers - thankfully. Although we've done that several times last season as well.

For those who are desperately bothered, chins up chaps. I always expected us to lose last night but qualify from the group.

Only one person to blame last night, Calamity James. The guy always has been a disaster waiting to happen, always will be. Never even attempted to move for the free kick and a ridiculous challenge for the penalty which should have resulted in his dismissal.

Otherwise solid but unexceptional displays from either side. Very little created from open play and all three goals from free kicks/a penalty.

[Paul]

In fact, imo Sven got it right when he brought Heskey on. All night Owen and Rooney were being bullied in the air by the French. Heskey came on and England started winning headers and Vassell was looking a threat with his pace and energy.

It was crucial that we added some brawn up front as the English defenders were increasingly resorting to long balls. And Owen, esp, was being swatted away by Silvestre and Co.

Spot on, coupled with the fact Rooney looked as though the pressure could get to him. I'm not criticising Rooney but if he had stayed on he might, just might, have done something stupid and been sent off.

[Paul]

Calm down dears it's only England not Rovers - thankfully. Although we've done that several times last season as well.

It was just like watching Rovers but without the agony.

[Nuclearsox]

Seeing as we always need a scapegoat I'm going to choose David James.

I'm plumping for Bobby "Kiss of Death" Robson. These aren't actual quotes but they're close...

Clive Tyldesley: "How's the heart condition, Robert?"

Bobby Robson: "It's alright because I think we'll win. We'll see off this dangerous free-kick and play out the last two minutes"

10 secs later : France 1 v 1 England

CT: "Is a draw a fair reflection, Bobby?"

BR: "We just need to keep hold of the ball now, not do anything silly and 1-1 is a good result for us"

10 secs later: France 2 v 1 England

Bring back Big Ron!! He knows how to commentate properly.

CT: "How's the heart condition Ron"

RA: "The heart's okay but the sphincter's gone critical, Clive"

CT: "Is an England win a fair reflection, Ron?"

RA: "If we get a win Clive. I can just that daft ba****d Gerrard putting that fast, french c**n clean through!"

[Kennys Magic Hat]

I can't see how you can blame the PL when the majority of that French side play in it.

I'm not blaming the PL, I'm suggesting the real quality players in our top sides are not English

Who were the second and third best players in the Premiership this season then as voted by their fellow professionals? I think you'll find it was Lampard and Gerrard. Don't make statements that the facts simply don't back up.

As for England, there's been a lot of unfair criticism as Jim mk2 rightly said (makes a change).

Having watched the match twice now, its clear that England didn't just defend for 90 minutes as a lot of people have said. The first half was quite even - both teams showing a lot of respect for each other with lots of men behind the ball when the opposition had it. England edged it with a goal, superb cross from Beckham and an even better header from Lampard.

We started really defending the 18 yard line around the 60 minute mark which is to be expected playing against France, any other team would have done it. Even so we were dangerous on the break, as Rooney showed and he deserved to score, it was a cowardly challenge from Silvestre. As it is France, only won the game from to set plays, both of which were mistakes from us rather than superb play from them. Credit to Zidane though who showed his class with the free-kick.

As for the substitutions, you can't balme Eriksson for that. Owen was doing nothing and Vassel showed his worth by getting two shots on goal almost as soon as he came on and putting himself in a great position when Rooney broke clear. With Rooney, he has tired and remember he had been booked so replacing him with Heskey was the right thing to do. Its easy to criticise in hindsight. He was caught out of position to be fair but even so Heskey made a genuine attempt to get the ball, it wasnt a cynical foul, and Makelele went down quite easily.

Plus points are that we played well against some great players and a great team, restricted them to long shots mostly. It is only the first game and hopefully this result and the over exuberance of the French at the end will give England the hunger to do well and get to the final. We could get through with just a win and a draw in the next two game, which is well within our capabilities.

COME ON ENGLAND!!

[Roaming Rover]

Only one person to blame last night, Calamity James. The guy always has been a disaster waiting to happen, always will be.

I hope that is a joke.

[Rainmaker]

Beckham's penalty was identical to Zidane's

You're joking aren't you?

Beckham's penalty was going in exactly the same position as Zidane's. If James had dived that way he may well have saved it.

Well, I think Barthez had the easier penalty so save.

Mr "I-can-only-use-my-right-foot-to-curl-the-ball" Beckham's penalty wasn't that hard to predict

Comparing that to ZZ-penalty is just plain wrong.

[Ste B]

I blame ITV. Have we ever won a game which was "exclusively live" on ITV ??

[Tom Pringle]

I blame ITV.  Have we ever won a game which was "exclusively live" on ITV ??

Was the Germany game on ITV in Euro 02?

edit: Euro 00 i mean...

Edited June 14, 2004 by Tom Pringle

[Paul]

Who were the second and third best players in the Premiership this season then as voted by their fellow professionals? I think you'll find it was Lampard and Gerrard. Don't make statements that the facts simply don't back up.

I didn't think I was making statements, but was expressing an opinion. There is, in my opinion, a difference in being the second or third best player in the PL and being a threat. I'm not trying to criticize England but to make observations - Henry, Viera, Pires - name the English equivalents? By which I mean players who worry you when they have the ball against your team.

The point I'm trying to make is England do not have threatening, creative players and that much of the creativity in the PL comes from foreign players. When Rovers play the major PL clubs it's the foreign players who are most likey to create the threat or set the pulse racing. If we're playing Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, there are few English players who create the threat/buzz.

You can be a very good footballer but still not a threatening, creative player.

[blue phil]

Henry, Viera, Pires - name the English equivalents? By which I mean players who worry you when they have the ball against your team.

Rooney , Gerard , Lampard , Owen.....I think you're over playing the French a bit , Mr Paul. We more than matched them last night . If (hopefully) we play them again I know who I'll put my money on .

[Steddy]

As a norwegian I found the game quite entertaining. Some great skills and play from Zidane, Rooney(MOTM), Campell/King. Most of my friends wanted France to win, because of their attacking style. I just hoped England would would win, as I like fair play. Not like that shi* Makelele. Cant forget his provocating play in CL against Monaco.

Well, I think England did well, some good football against maybe the best team in Europe. You shouldnt blame everyone like Becham, Gerrard, James....Eriksson and so on... Everyone gave what they had and fought well. There are no game without personal mistakes. And applouse to Eriksson, for giving a great player like Rooney the chance at his age. Kept England in the game.

As the game ends, well, thats football, and thats whats makes the game so unbelivable fun! Great game, good play from both teams.

Just lovin`it!

Edited June 14, 2004 by Steddy

[Dr Rich]

Only one person to blame last night, Calamity James. The guy always has been a disaster waiting to happen, always will be.

I hope that is a joke.

I doubt it, you see, Souness said David James was a great keeper, and Souey and Rev, well I think they'd manage to disagree if one of them said water was wet.

[1864roverite]

yes rover6 and paul

Rooney may just have done something utterly stupid like get into the other haklf and score a goal or win another penalty.

All game the french were frightened to death of going anywhere near him, the lad may not be the quickest but he is hard as nails in the tackle, he is hard to pull off the ball and he can score from nothing, we at Rovers have seen that first hand.

Heskey should not have been on the pitch, we should have had a defensive midfielder as at that point we had no need to chase the 2nd goal, we were comfortable due to the defending of King and Campbell as well as a near perfect display from a Neville brother.

At the end of the day the frogs got lucky, we lost and thats that. it all goes down to the next games when England will know what it is they have to do.

The opposite group does not frighten me as an English supporter so I see the semis looming and a date with....... well you know who ?

[RevidgeBlue]

Only one person to blame last night, Calamity James. The guy always has been a disaster waiting to happen, always will be.

I hope that is a joke.

I doubt it, you see, Souness said David James was a great keeper, and Souey and Rev, well I think they'd manage to disagree if one of them said water was wet.

No, it's not a joke - I wouldn't have said it otherwise would I?

He's capable of pulling off great saves but just isn't reliable.

If Souness thinks he's a "great" keeper we'll have to beg to differ on that.

Friedel (Souness signing) has turned into a great keeper.

[American]

A lot of tactical naivety in these pages.

Had we defended further up the field we would have been turned over long before the 92nd minute.

France have pace to burn. Give them space by defending too far forwards and they will create chance after chance. As it was, they had perhaps two half chances from open play all game?

The English failure was not holding the ball in the second half when we got possession. Had France been defending a 1-0 lead in the second half, you would have seen far more keep ball and players running into space (not going forwards neccessarilly).

The criticism of Scholes and Beckham in that regard is correct. Both were very poor on the "out" ball.

Fortunately Hargreaves looked very good as a Scholes replacement,

Don't see why you aren't a manager in the Prem then Philip. Robson himself said at the start of the second half that England needed to keep bringing the game to the French (I paraphrase, of course), since that is what got them the lead in the first place.

But you know more tactics than Sir Bobby, I'm sure.

[RoverDrake]

Steven Gerard- Hugely over-rated..

England- Hugely over-rated..

[Roaming Rover]

Only one person to blame last night, Calamity James. The guy always has been a disaster waiting to happen, always will be.

I hope that is a joke.

I doubt it, you see, Souness said David James was a great keeper, and Souey and Rev, well I think they'd manage to disagree if one of them said water was wet.

No, it's not a joke - I wouldn't have said it otherwise would I?

He's capable of pulling off great saves but just isn't reliable.

If Souness thinks he's a "great" keeper we'll have to beg to differ on that.

Friedel (Souness signing) has turned into a great keeper.

So James is the only person to blame? Not Beckham for missing a Pen, not Heskey for giving away a foul on the edge of the box, not Gerard for his poor backpass??????

I'm not David James biggest fan, but he had a pretty good game last night.

[Gareth]

Seeing as we always need a scapegoat I'm going to choose David James.

I'm plumping for Bobby "Kiss of Death" Robson. These aren't actual quotes but they're close...

Clive Tyldesley: "How's the heart condition, Robert?"

Bobby Robson: "It's alright because I think we'll win. We'll see off this dangerous free-kick and play out the last two minutes"

10 secs later : France 1 v 1 England

CT: "Is a draw a fair reflection, Bobby?"

BR: "We just need to keep hold of the ball now, not do anything silly and 1-1 is a good result for us"

10 secs later: France 2 v 1 England

You forgot the one where with about 10min left, they said

"England have never won an opening match in the European Championships"

As soon as they said it i thought "Oh f***. We're doomed"

On the other hand, it's shown the other teams that France are beatable, just need to keep your concentraion for the full 90mins... & not miss pens

[promoted2001]

As we're playing the blame game i'm going to throw one in there. I blame France for being good. Damn them and all their evilness.

[FourLaneBlue]

I blame the scapegoats. The big smelly gets.

Oh yeah and Amoruso, out of habit as much as anything.

Edited June 14, 2004 by FourLaneBlue

[rover6]

Steven Gerard- Hugely over-rated..

England- Hugely over-rated..

One bad back pass and Gerrard becomes hugely over-rated? Imo he is the MOST important England player.

Retorting to 1864, Heskey did everything right - winning headers and putting himself about - apart from the challenge. How are you to know that Rooney wouldn't have put in a stupid challenge like that? After Heskey came on, England had a brief respite because he was actually holding the ball up.

Bringing on a defensive midfielder for an attacker would have been suicidal. When you're defending desperately, you want someone with a bit of height up front who can make something of your panicky punt clearances.

Finally, I think it was Dr Rich who thought Beckham was outstanding. Yes, out standing around doing very little.

[AndyC]

this board never ceases to maze me with such a diverse set of opinions after watching the same game.

I've just got back from Portugal and gutted does not even begin to describe the feeling.

The weekend started off so well. The weather was gorgeous, drinks were going down nicely and we had a big game of keepy up in the street with about 60 people! Forget the Carling and Nike ads - this was football for the fans at its best!

Got to the stadium nice and early due to the warnings about getting in ( which proved to be correct, as a lot of people missed the kick off) Queued at the Carlsberg tent only to find they were only sellign non alcoholic beer! Oh well, the prospect of watching us take on thw world champions was probably enough to keep me going!

5 mins before kick off and the stadium looked awesome. We outnumbered the french by what looked like 6:1. St George Flags draped all the way around the stadium and a see of white and red from our boys.

Now, most of our pre match banter about the game had centred around our dodgy defence and how henry et al were going to rip ledley apart. ( I based this on a) my limited knowledge of him and watching andy cole come off better against him towards the end of the season)

How wrong could I be! He was excellent, as was the rest of our defence. Sol was probably the best player on the pitch and ashley and gary did nothing wrong all match.

If only we could have said the same about the midfield.

It's always different watching a game from the stands, as opposed to the TV as you get a much clearer picture of the whole thing unfolding. And apart from our goal and 1 or 2 rooney moments, we went into the half time break feeling quite lucky.

In the 2nd half, things seem to get more negative and the space in which we allowed france to run with the ball so that they could pick off there passes with ease was a major cause for concern. We had the feeling all the way through that we were just inviting trouble. That if you gave france as much time and space as we did, then they would start to smell blood.

Scholes looked like he'd runa marathon the day before and beckham was remarkably subdued. Gerrard and lampard were ok and covered a lot of ground, but can't help thinking that they gave france far too much time.

Another amazing run by rooney and we should have been 2 up. Now can anyone explain why silvestre was not sent off? I haven't seen any replays, but surely he was the last man?

The less said about the penalty the better, although noone will be more gutted than the man himself. Lets hope its stirs him onto greater things.

The substitutions were a bit of a gamble.

Scholes definitely had to be replaced as he couldn't run at all. I wonder if it was the humidity, but he looked very short of fitness for most of the game.

I think he may have bought rooney off, to save him getting red carded. He was putting himself about a lot, and the more the game moved on, the more likely he would get tired and therfore miss-time a bad tackle.

Heskey did quite well winning some headers, but I still hate the fact that we are a long ball team. How many times did we launch the ball up to owen! WHy does the england team seem incable of getting hold of the ball and putting 20 passes together.

Heskeys challenge wasn't a great one, but it looked like he prevented a shot which could have gone in anyway. Nothing wrong with james - he just came up against the best player in the world.

In fact - he made quite a few crucial saves and commanded his area really well. Lazy for people to brand him calamity. He is such a different keeper these days.

And gerrards back pass. Oh deary me. It was like watching the whole thing in slow motion. We were screamign at the players to just keep possesion after it went 1-1, but another hoof up field and we're on the back foot again.

I still cannot believe they scored another. The england fans just burried there heads in disbelief.

To add insult to injury, the portuguese were about as competant as the greeks when it comes to organisation & everyones flights were delyaed by about 3 or 4 hours. Total and utter chaos at the airport, but at least the england fans behaved.

Was there any trouble in Lisbon last night?

Sorry for the total rant. I think I needed to just get it all out!!!

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