Stolen by the Ref

[ABBEY]

Referee speaks out

From the alleged quote by the ref:

"England should remember that we are at Euro 2004 and not playing in the English Premier League," he added. "What is allowed there is not allowed here. There are different rules here and I applied them."

Excuse me you Swiss banker but aren't the rules supposed to the same at whatever level of the sport?

what an arrogent prick he is!quite right sars ....the rules are supposed to be the same.How much protection should be allowed for a goalie

I'm going to email FIFA and propose a new rule ...the attacking team shall not be allowed to jump or enter the penalty area.

[thenodrog]

So is Paul Durkin, and the decision yesterday was as much a "Homer" decision as Durkin disallowing that Shearer goal at Man U.

Nice to see that Im not the only person to still have not got over that travesty! I still have strong memories of the MU players not even appealing for a free kick ffs! That could have had major repercussions.

Edited June 26, 2004 by thenodrog

[78]

Which is why the Premier League clubs have more "tougher/stronger" players than skillfull ones compared to the other leagues.

I hate it when people say that.

I forgot, Duff, Pires, Henry, Giggs, Scholes and the rest don't play in England do they? It's what people like to spew out. The premier league has just as much skill, it simply is played in a different manner. Players are not allowed as much time on the ball and it's played at a higher pace. This means that there is less room to show off.

Maybe you should try reading the sentence in full, I said clubs have MORE tougher/stronger players THAN those with skill.

For example, look at teams in Spain, Italy where even the defensive midfielders like Baraja, Davids, Gattuso all have both skills and strength.

The players you mention are worldclass players but like I said, they are a minority in their clubs.

The Premier League doesn't have the ammount of skillful players like those in the above leagues, even the French league has more skillful players than the Premier League. However it's slowly changing due to the increasing ammount of players like Zola, Bergkamp, Duff, Giggs etc plying their trade here.

Those players above aren't the norm in our league, they have had to adapt and add another dimension to their game or else they wouldn't have survived in this league. The reason people don't have time on the ball is because the majority of English teams are more aggressive. Players with skill doesn't mean they show off.

Why do you think players like Veron have problem playing in the Premier League but on the Wednesdays when playing in Champions League, he excels and on many occassions is probably the best player in his team?

Also apart from United, name an English team that consistently does well in Europe?

Try explaining that then Eddie

[thenodrog]

Referee speaks out

From the alleged quote by the ref:

"England should remember that we are at Euro 2004 and not playing in the English Premier League," he added. "What is allowed there is not allowed here. There are different rules here and I applied them."

Excuse me you Swiss banker but aren't the rules supposed to the same at whatever level of the sport?

You just beat me to that quote Don. What a fool he is if that quote is correct....... he wants dragging up before the beak and never being allowed to ref anything above park football!

That goal was a goal! Period. God only knows the state of your eyesight Kingalan! I get really ###### by referees who despite video replays still stick to their guns when they have made a major cock-up. If the @#/? had held his hand up and admitted a mistake I could readily forgive him, but to carry on with his stupid charade confirms that his appearence at this tournament is a classic exampe of 'promotion to incompetence'

[waggy]

as one off the few messageboard members to have the privlige off being in the LUZ STADIA,on thursday night i thought erickson lost us the game,with his pathetic negative tactics,also uefa has gone down the lines of fifa with giving the home country favourable homers as refs,aka south korea in 2002 the ref on thursday was poor,gave every decision to portugal,i for one was 20 yds of the rooney foot break incident,a foul was given,agianst rooney but a penalty was the correct decision.

saying that the atmosphere was the best,i have ever witnessed at a football match,our section was 60/40 in port-u-gal favour,and not a hint off crowd trouble.it is time now that the english fa,makes tickets available to ALL ENGLAND FANS,not just the wet behind the ears ENGLAND FANS CLUB,the 6k empty seats against croatia was a disgrace,when lads were paying 2-300 pounds for tickets.

[waggy]

i have been to every major tournament england have been in since 82 and i have only beenhome once before team,wheni was deported,unfortunatley ifly home friday

there you have it lads home at 7pm last night

[Eddie]

Maybe you should try reading the sentence in full, I said clubs have MORE tougher/stronger players THAN those with skill.

For example, look at teams in Spain, Italy where even the defensive midfielders like Baraja, Davids, Gattuso all have both skills and strength.

The players you mention are worldclass players but like I said, they are a minority in their clubs.

The Premier League doesn't have the ammount of skillful players like those in the above leagues, even the French league has more skillful players than the Premier League. However it's slowly changing due to the increasing ammount of players like Zola, Bergkamp, Duff, Giggs etc plying their trade here.

Those players above aren't the norm in our league, they have had to adapt and add another dimension to their game or else they wouldn't have survived in this league. The reason people don't have time on the ball is because the majority of English teams are more aggressive. Players with skill doesn't mean they show off.

Why do you think players like Veron have problem playing in the Premier League but on the Wednesdays when playing in Champions League, he excels and on many occassions is probably the best player in his team?

Also apart from United, name an English team that consistently does well in Europe?

Try explaining that then Eddie

If you think players like Duff and Giggs have had to "change" their games, this is strange as it's the only league they have played in. While Henry has become a more skilled player while playing in england. All but the bottom clubs in the premier league have their fair share of skilled players, they simply aren't allowed the time on the ball that is required to show the kind of tricks and flicks that we so admire in spain, well at least some of us do. *

Arsenal in the past few seasons have done well in the Champions League. With the odd team getting up there, Chelsea this season and Leeds not too far back.

Yes, the stlyles of play are different. England is more physical, but those who say that there is less skill, and fewer skilled players in england, don't know what they are talking about.

[Eddie]

i have been to every major tournament england have been in since 82 and i have only beenhome once before team,wheni was deported,unfortunatley ifly home friday

there you have it lads home at 7pm last night

It's all your fault then.

[78]

If you think players like Duff and Giggs have had to "change" their games, this is strange as it's the only league they have played in. While Henry has become a more skilled player while playing in england. All but the bottom clubs in the premier league have their fair share of skilled players, they simply aren't allowed the time on the ball that is required to show the kind of tricks and flicks that we so admire in spain, well at least some of us do. *

Arsenal in the past few seasons have done well in the Champions League. With the odd team getting up there, Chelsea this season and Leeds not too far back.

Yes, the stlyles of play are different. England is more physical, but those who say that there is less skill, and fewer skilled players in england, don't know what they are talking about.

Yes, players like Duff and Giggs have had to add the physical side to their game or they would have ended up like Veron. You don't have to play in a different league to make you want to adapt your game. Those two players wouldn't have played in the Premier League if they didn't have anything else but skill.

As for Henry- he didn't get his skills from playing in this country. Have you seen him play before he joined Arsenal? Instead what he and most foreign players have got from the English game is organisation and the physical attribute. Which without a doubt made them better players, Henry for example wouldn't have been a better striker if he didn't have those attributes. He may have been a winger (thats why he was played as one at Juve) but never a striker in the top leagues because he wasn't tough enough and in Italy there would be only one winner between him and a defender.

See you claim that all but the bottom clubs have their fair share of skilled players, yes they may have- but the question is how many of those will be classed as skilled in any league outside of the Premier League?

Very few!

If anything the players with skill in this country would probably have never become as skillful as they are if it wasn't for the influx of foreign players like Zola, Bergkamp etc or foreign football matches shown on tv.

If your definition of the beautiful game is flicks and tricks then you definitely have been watching too much English footy because those tricks can be done by any kid on the street in most countries.

[thenodrog]

saying that the atmosphere was the best,i have ever witnessed at a football match,our section was 60/40 in port-u-gal favour,and not a hint off crowd trouble.it is time now that the english fa,makes tickets available to ALL ENGLAND FANS,not just the wet behind the ears ENGLAND FANS CLUB,the 6k empty seats against croatia was a disgrace,when lads were paying 2-300 pounds for tickets.

Isn't that a somewhat contradictory statement waggy? I bow to your superior knowledge of travelling with England but do you not think that the 'excellent atmosphere' without 'a hint of crowd trouble' fully and unequivocably justifies the FA's ticket allocation policies which they were undeniably forced to implement by events of the past?

Whatever they are doing they seem to be doing right.

[Eddie]

My definition of the beautiful game is not flicks and tricks, where on earth did you get that from. I'm also not saying that there is no difference between English and continental football, I for one should know this as I live in Europe.

My point is, as you have said, continental football is less physical. However, what you have not said, and this is what I am getting at, is that as a result of it being less physical, meaning that players are given more space, the games are slower, plenty of open space, the players are given more OPPURTUNITY to show off their skills. As a result of this, many are seen to be more skilled, when in reality, it is simply that in England you can't try and play that way.

I don't doubt that if a lot of English players went over to continental leagues and played 2 seasons there, they would get used to having the extra space and would start to use some of the parts of their game that could previously only be tried out on the training ground.

[78]

My point is, as you have said, continental football is less physical. However, what you have not said, and this is what I am getting at, is that as a result of it being less physical, meaning that players are given more space, the games are slower, plenty of open space, the players are given more OPPURTUNITY to show off their skills. As a result of this, many are seen to be more skilled, when in reality, it is simply that in England you can't try and play that way.

I don't doubt that if a lot of English players went over to continental leagues and played 2 seasons there, they would get used to having the extra space and would start to use some of the parts of their game that could previously only be tried out on the training ground.

What my point is that players you may think are skilled in this country wouldn't even be classed as skilled in other leagues. As for Beckham, he's been found out. People in this country thought he was this big time skillful player but if anything it's proven that all he has in his game is his crosses and freekicks. His defending is useless, no pace, doesn't run without the ball and it's no wonder he has had trouble adapting to the Spanish league.

Of course if English players move over to other leagues, it will improve their game but I think because of the money in the game in England there's no need to move which is a shame because I think England would have won far more international throphies if they had more players playing in Italy and Spain.

[Eddie]

You are a pillock. David Beckham doesn't run without the ball? I think this has only happened as a result of him playing in Spain. You are talking about one of the fittest players in world football, one of only two athletes I know of to have COMPLETED the bleep test, the other being Lance Armstrong.

His only skill is crossing and free kicks, oh how terrible that a right midfielder is only good at passing. He's not bad with his head, and is a good tackler. Spain may have ruined his work ethic, but before his move there he was really something else in that sense. He was never considered the kind of player who would beat people, he has his style of play, he's not a Giggs or Duff.

[78]

You are a pillock. David Beckham doesn't run without the ball? I think this has only happened as a result of him playing in Spain. You are talking about one of the fittest players in world football, one of only two athletes I know of to have COMPLETED the bleep test, the other being Lance Armstrong.

His only skill is crossing and free kicks, oh how terrible that a right midfielder is only good at passing. He's not bad with his head, and is a good tackler. Spain may have ruined his work ethic, but before his move there he was really something else in that sense. He was never considered the kind of player who would beat people, he has his style of play, he's not a Giggs or Duff.

if anything your last post shows that you're an ignorant person who needs a lesson in football.

The bleep test has been completed by Beckham and Armstrong and many others including a Swede, Håkan Mild many years ago.

But what does the bleep test have anything to do with Beckham running without the ball. The bleep test is to test your fitness- I never said anything about his fitness- just that he rarely runs without the ball. Go check the next time Beckham plays and see if he actually runs without the ball. What you're most likely to see is that he jogs casually and most of the time he's actually behind the player (teamate) with the ball. A wide midfielder runs without the ball is Ljungberg and if you want a few from examples from the English team, have a look at Gerrard and Lampard- their workrate is far higher than Beckham. Infact I think even Ashley Cole and maybe even Gary Neville run far more without the ball then your fav idol Beckham.

The point about his tackling and heading just made me laugh, if you think he's even remotely good at that then I'll just rest my case. Beckham- good at heading and tackling- what a joke!

[lofty2k2]

once again england have been cheated and to add to the list are the swiss and portugese. That ref what a swiss banker he is

[rover6]

As for Beckham, he's been found out. People in this country thought he was this big time skillful player but if anything it's proven that all he has in his game is his crosses and freekicks.

Sorry, but where the hell have you been?

Were you around when Beckham played for Man U? Or was it a case of always thinking that dark haired lad who plays on the left wing for Man U was David Beckham?

No one with half a brain thought that Beckham was a skilful player.

What we knew was that he was a set-piece expert with an excellent long pass game and brilliant crossing ability. We knew that he's limited with pace and in tackling but if given the service down the right, he can be lethal.

He had a bad Euro 2004 because he didn't get into positions to utilise his great crossing ability.

Edited June 26, 2004 by rover6

[roversWASmylife]

Well said rover6.

In my opinion Beckham has always been over rated. I can’t see how he’s England captain and I can’t see why he’s in the team at the moment. Against Portugal if I was Sven I would have taken Beckham off.

The Portuguese manager wasn’t afraid of taking his best player of, Figo. He was taken off and the substitution worked brilliantly for Portugal.

Beckham isn’t a world footballer star; he’s a fashion icon thanks to his wife.

As for the ref. Yes, he did make a lot of bad decisions. But after a lot of thought about it nothing’s going to change what happened. The goal should have stood and we should have been looking at a brilliant tie in the semi final. If we would have won, then it would have been great. But overall, we can’t defend for eighty-seven minutes and expect to win.

Defiant Meier stands firm

Edited June 26, 2004 by roversismylife

[78]

No one with half a brain thought that Beckham was a skilful player.

Where did I say that I thought he was a skillfull player, infact I agree with you and roversismylife- he is overrated but you'll be surprised at ammount of people who think he's skillfull.

If I was a defender, I would rather play against Beckham than Joaquin. Infact I'll be worried of playing against an inconsistent Gronkjaer than Beckham. To stop Beckham's game is to stay close to him and don't give him the a yard or two to cross the ball.

[78]

Against Portugal if I was Sven I would have taken Beckham off.

The question is how fit was Kieron Dyer because if he was fit, he would have been a better option to bring in with 20-30mins left - to run at their defence. Rooney had a good tournament, just like Owen had in 98 because of their ability to run at opponents with pace. If we had a fit Dyer or even Wright Phillips- that would have been a great option to bring on when the game plan was counter attacking.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

I always thought Jeff Winter, below, was a plonker.

And that opinion has been confirmed today.

In a newspaper interview, the plump former Premiership ref said: "I thought that Meier had a tremendous game and he ranks alongside Pierluigi Collina".

The goatee-bearded Winter claimed: "John Terry's arm prevented the Portugese keeper getting off the ground. It was a foul and Urs Meier was 100% right to disallow Campbell's goal."

Winter is wrong. WE WOZ ROBBED!

I agree with others on here who, as well as blaming the Swiss ref, have also blamed Sven's tactics and substitutions as being a contributory factor in our defeat.

As Franz Beckenbauer said: "After Michael Owen's early goal, England made the same mistake they made against France. They pushed back too deep on the pitch and it was only a matter of time before Portugal got the equaliser."

We lost control of the ball in midfield. We allowed the Portugese to dominate in the middle of the pitch by defending too deep and by sloppily giving the ball away too often.

Gordon Strachan, who took over the Guardian's football column after the paper sacked Big-ot Ron, today has given six reasons why England lost the quarter-final.

Without copying the whole of the column, the six reasons that wee Gord gave were briefly as follows:

1) Campbell's goal should not have been disallowed. In any other situation that incident wouldn't have been a foul.

2) England played with strikers who were too similar after Rooney went off. Without someone like Rooney dropping deep to get the ball off the midfield it was harder for England to retain possession, says Gordon

3)There were tired England bodies as the game went on, especially in midfield. Gordon felt the whole competition caught up with a few - The fact that England had a day less than Portugal to recover from their previous match could have made a big difference.

4) England were too deep when Postiga scored the equaliser. For Portugal's first goal Campbell, Terry and Ashley Cole could have been braver and pushed up a couple of yards. That would have brought them level with the player putting pressure on the ball - Gary Neville - and left three Portugal players with a problem. Either they readjust, in which case the cross is less dangerous, or they're offside and Postiga's header doesn't count.

5) Portugal made a lot of positive changes. Scolari ended up with Rui Costa, Postiga, Gomes, Sabrosa, Ronaldo and Deco on. This paid off. Portugal's substitutes gave them more players who could beat people, something England lacked. It made them more dangerous and that's where English football falls down.

6) Gordon says: "I wonder whether Phil Neville was the type of player England needed when he came on. You can't say for sure that other options would have worked but maybe Dyer coming in on the left of midfield with Steven Gerrard staying in the middle would have been a better option."

Edited June 26, 2004 by Anti Euro Smiths Fan

[1864roverite]

just who is Jeff Winter then ?

[Manchester Blue]

I always thought Jeff Winter, below, was a plonker.

And that opinion has been confirmed today.

In a newspaper interview, the plump former Premiership ref said: "I thought that Meier had a tremendous game and he ranks alongside Pierluigi Collina".

If he's not just trying to be controversial and is genuinely being serious then he is an even bigger idiot than I ever thought. Meier doesn't even merit a mention in the same sentence as Collina. He had an awful game on Thursday even disregarding the 'goal' incident.

One free kick he gave against Vassell when the defender jumped on top of him was laughable. All through the game he was poor and the number of bad decisions he made was beyond belief. I suppose all in all the way Winter usually refs then really.

[joey_big_nose]

I think Sven is going to have a bit of a re think now and I expect the next england friendly to be characterised by attacking verve. We know we are, largely, a good defensive side but we have to not be afraid to put our stamp on a game. Practically the same line up will start but maybe without Scholes and instead Joe Cole, Parker or Wright-Phillips. Personally I would stick Parker on the left to help with ball retention and he can drive forward too.

We do not really need to change much, just find the confidence to stay on the front foot for the whole game. A basic point should be made that at all times Campbell should attempt to marshal the defensive line to a minimum of 30 yards from our own goal, preferably more (it exposes up to fast strikers, but that is by far the lesser of the two evils). If it sits on the edge of the box then our midfield cannot function.

A few simple adjustments and we should improve vastly, and we were not too ba before .

[John]

Think Stead and Jansen up front would be good for England.

With Rooney playing behind.

[thenodrog]

Cant see it happening but the poor performers notably James, Beckham, Owen and Heskey should be dropped forthwith and told that only improved personal performances will allow them to get their place back.

It's only fair that replacements such as Robinson, Wright Philips, Defoe and even Pennant should be given an equal chance.