[Archived] Season Ticket Sales?

[Ossydave]

The club is sadly losing the battle,they can do no more.....

The snide remark from opposing fans about our support being 'plastic' appears to be coming home to roost....we are running out of excuses and we ALL know it.

Blackburn is not a footballing town it's as simple as that. There's no 'buzz' round Ewood on matchday. There's no air of excitement round the streets of Blackburn pre-match. The difference you see when travelling to some (but not all) away games is quite something. The only way we'll fill the ground again is by challenging for the premiership, and to be honest that probably wouldn't do it any more

[Manchester Blue]

Ossydave, sadly that sums it up much better than any of the 'excuses' that i've heard elsewhere for why people haven't renewed/don't come.

[FourLaneBlue]

I'm sorry but Blackburn is a football town which is why the crowds are so high despite it being a relatively small place for a top flight club. It's just that there is only so many fans to appeal to. Even the surrounding areas aren't exceptionally well populated. Added to that is also the case of it being that if you go any distance from Blackburn you will very quickly be into the traditional heartlands of neighbouring Lancashire clubs, unless you go north but then unless sheep count as fans there isn't many to convert up there. Preston, Burnley, Blackpool, Bolton, Bury, Rochdale, Oldham etc etc...all with their own traditions and times of glory or top flight football in the past (ok...well not Rochdale).

Blackburn IS a football town, hence why last season they were still in the top few clubs in the country when it came to number of supporters we get in compared with the local population. Think Middlesbrough came top but then they've only just won their first trophy after a hundred odd years of trying. Quite simply -

-- The highest average gate we can reasonably expect to achieve is about 25k. If you look at the cold, hard facts that is an excellent response from the area and, give or take, about the best in the country which is more impressive when you realise that East Lancs is not an affluent area. Other than the Ribble Valley, the income isn't wonderful and this does affect figures as well. Also there is the same 'buzz' around Ewood as most grounds whenever I have spoken to away fans visiting. It just seems different when you are a home fan. Away games seem different but they aren't much different really if you actually think about it. Other than maybe the much larger grounds...

So what am I saying? Well...give Blackburn a break. It's not wonderful or amazing but it has fuelled the most successful town team in the world so saying it's not a football town ----- nah, you're having a laugh.

Edited July 7, 2004 by FourLaneBlue

[roversmum]

Who in their right mind  would make 200 mile pilgrimages to Ewood when their friends and work colleges are watching clubs on the doorstep.

I think I'm gonna cry

Keep the faith, Neil

[RevidgeBlue]

Don't agree with that at all ossy.

Name me another "town" a comparable size to Blackburn with better attendances.

[Flopsy]

Im not renewing my season ticket this time round due to the fact taht I didnt really get chance to use it that much last season - also the fact that my two regular travelling buddies Tom and my mate Dave wont be able to make it for most of the season also has a bearing, plus I just cant afford the upfront cost or the direct debit + travelling, so my aim is to go to as many games as possibly (home and away) and then in december/january see whether its worth getting a half season ticket.

As it is it will probably work out cheaper just going to those games I can do. However my mate Dave's getting a season ticket but will be off to the desert for 3-6 months during the season so i'll nick his ticket as and when neccessary.

[1864roverite]

Well my son has just received his letter regarding a non renewal of his ST - he had worries about getting one as he has just started in the bad world of work ! and wasn't sure if he was going to get employment.

In relation to the letter, its not really that good and IMO is not the type of letter that would induce the hovering supporter to make the plunge into purchasing a ST, the letter needs more UUUUMPH and a more/better placed explanation regarding the club.

In any case on this occasion a renewal was made and having visited the TO today it appears there has been a slight increase in renewals and hows this forkeeness....

in front was a pretty lady requesting tickets for BRAY WANDERERS away ! Now my female fellow blue that IS dedication and why dont you sit near us in the Blackburn End ?

[Manchester Blue]

Don't agree with that at all ossy.

Name me another "town" a comparable size to Blackburn with better attendances.

I will when you name me another Premiership club which has seen it's crowds dwindle despite qualifying for Europe twice, finishing top ten twice and wopn a trophy in the last 3 years

[RevidgeBlue]

Our crowds have decreased for one season after increasing markedly in the previous two seasons before that.

Without getting into the same hoary old debate again, or I'll be in trouble with Bryan and Tris, it wasn't that surprising on the back of the sale of our two "star names"

If there is the sort of improvement we all want in home performances this season, I would expect match by match attendances to increase slightly again.

[Scotty]

I'm sorry but Blackburn is a football town which is why the crowds are so high despite it being a relatively small place for a top flight club. It's just that there is only so many fans to appeal to. Even the surrounding areas aren't exceptionally well populated. Added to that is also the case of it being that if you go any distance from Blackburn you will very quickly be into the traditional heartlands of neighbouring Lancashire clubs, unless you go north but then unless sheep count as fans there isn't many to convert up there. Preston, Burnley, Blackpool, Bolton, Bury, Rochdale, Oldham etc etc...all with their own traditions and times of glory or top flight football in the past (ok...well not Rochdale).

Blackburn IS a football town, hence why last season they were still in the top few clubs in the country when it came to number of supporters we get in compared with the local population. Think Middlesbrough came top but then they've only just won their first trophy after a hundred odd years of trying. Quite simply -

-- The highest average gate we can reasonably expect to achieve is about 25k. If you look at the cold, hard facts that is an excellent response from the area and, give or take, about the best in the country which is more impressive when you realise that East Lancs is not an affluent area. Other than the Ribble Valley, the income isn't wonderful and this does affect figures as well. Also there is the same 'buzz' around Ewood as most grounds whenever I have spoken to away fans visiting. It just seems different when you are a home fan. Away games seem different but they aren't much different really if you actually think about it. Other than maybe the much larger grounds...

So what am I saying? Well...give Blackburn a break. It's not wonderful or amazing but it has fuelled the most successful town team in the world so saying it's not a football town ----- nah, you're having a laugh.

Great post FLB - absolutely spot on. All this moaning about Blackburn not being a footballing town is just rubbish.

There are loads of reasons for our decline in attendances over the last year or two and they have all been brought up on here many times before. Unfortunately, some people choose to ignore these and cling onto their ill-informed beliefs that Rovers fans are the worst in the world.

[Ste B]

it wasn't that surprising on the back of the sale of our two "star names"

It wasnt that surprising that you would bring this back up again. Fact is season ticket sales were down last season well before we actually sold Duff.

Don't see many people complaining about Dunny - except Brum fans who are as disappointed in him as the majority of Rovers fans were.

[Manchester Blue]

There are loads of reasons for our decline in attendances over the last year or two and they have all been brought up on here many times before. Unfortunately, some people choose to ignore these and cling onto their ill-informed beliefs that Rovers fans are the worst in the world.

I for one would never suggest Rovers fans are the worst in the world yet we seem to be suffering at a time when no other Premiership club seems to be. I may well be clinging onto beliefs but 'ill-informed', I don't think so. As Ste says season ticket sales were well down before Duff left so were all those fans Psychic.

Last year cost was the reason argued, this time it's poor results, oh and the players not behaving. Next year no doubt it'll be the pies being too cold and the poor quality of the programmes. We do ok but I was agreeing with Ossydave that the club have done all they can and the fans will either renew or not bother. Not a lot seems to change that.

[FourLaneBlue]

Don't agree with that at all ossy.

Name me another "town" a comparable size to Blackburn with better attendances.

I will when you name me another Premiership club which has seen it's crowds dwindle despite qualifying for Europe twice, finishing top ten twice and wopn a trophy in the last 3 years

The crowds reached a peak and they aren't down by that much. Quite simply many people in the area cannot afford to keep renewing season after season. Now I don't want to get into this debate again but if you just look at the crowds Rovers compared to the population of the surrounding areas it obviously is a football town. There are ups and downs in various seasons but the truth remains that the support the club receives from the town of Blackburn and the nearby areas such as Darwen, Oswaldtwistle and Accrington (despite them having a team in the fifth division) is superb.

The recent trends have been worrying but they can't mask the tremendous and loyal support. The club is doing all it can but there is only so many people they can target. Anybody who cares to compare the gates to the size of the population will see just how well we do. Just because the club puts on better offers does not mean more fans can appear miraculously. It's just the way it is although there really needs to be some way the club can manage to attract more support from the ethnic minority population. I don't know how this can be done but that is the largely untapped part of the population of the town that needs to be targetted if gates are to increase.

[Ossydave]

Don't have time to write a full reply as I've got a meeting soon. I will when I get home later on though.

But, to say we have tremendous and loyal support is in my opinion way off the mark. Where on earth was this support in Div 2?!?!

Jack Walker brought an instant, overnight increase in attendances that none of us could ever have imagined at the time. Those attendances peaked around the title winning season and have been very slowly slipping ever since.

If we don't have a top 4 season next season we'll drop to sub-10,000 ST sales, I've no doubts about that.

[FourLaneBlue]

When we were in div 2 in the eighties crowds throughout the country were way down at every place. It was also a bad time economically for the place. Every team (not just Rovers) since then has received a boost in attendances and especially those who can sell Premiership football. The Jack Walker era obviously gave us a boost but the two seasons we spent in div 1 recently should be looked at to see what kind of loyalty the club can command.

Mentioning 'loyal and tremendous support', maybe it was going a bit far in building up my argument but I was reacting to your mention that Blackburn isn't a football town. The town has a population of about 105,000. Even if you add Darwen and other outlying areas it's only about 140k. Bolton and it's surrounding areas are, if I remember correctly, home to about twice the population yet they only last season managed to get higher attendances than us. That not by much as well....

Ok, I shouldn't really be suggesting that Blackburn fans are the best in the world etc etc etc, but look at the places that have had Premiership clubs for most of the last decade... Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, London, Blackburn, Newcastle, Leeds, Sheffield...

See the odd one out? We do damn well that's all...so let's not be too harsh on Blackburn. Or Ossy, Accy, Darwen and Rishton for that matter... It's a football town.

[speeeeeeedie]

It is a major debate between fans, particularly within local team circles, as to who has the most loyal support. It seems that when teams are in different divisions the way to compare teams is through fan support not results. As we are currently the cream of the crop within East Lancs we come in line for more grief than others because of other fans' jealousy. Preston and Burnley fans serve up the most, and our usual rebuke is to look at the support as a percentage of population. I'd prefer to laugh at them and remind them that they have to suffer lower league football, not the good stuff we get, and stay clear of the fan argument as it does cause some Rovers fans problems.

Rovers support has never been the greatest, and never will be, we are a backwoods team with fickle fans who got very lucky with a benefactor who wanted to put us on the map. Jack Walker did this and his legacy was to keep us there. His money is not what it was and we now need ticket sales to, quite rightly, cover operating budgets. But we won't get the required numbers unless we win the league, play Man U and Liverpool every week, or charge not enough to break even. Our cup and European crowds are downright awful. It is not something to get angry about, it comes down to the product. If the team serves up good football and is doing well our gates will increase, giving us more money later on in the season. Rovers is a business and has to forecast cashflows, it is easier for them to do so if they get more money upfront, but they won't argue if larger sums come it at later dates.

Finally, my view is that because of the ease of buying matchday tickets these days many good Rovers fans can choose their games easily and go on the day. This way they are able to pick up the tickets to get into the 'big' games, but don't have to fork out when they don't want to watch, have to work, are ill, and have other commitments taking place. For many, a season ticket can be a bit of an albatross, some feel forced to use it as they've fronted the best part of £400 for something they have give up quite a few hours of leisure time for.

[den]

Well for my two penneth:

The main reason for falling S.T. sales has been the ABYSMAL home form in the last three seasons. For the major part - really poor. Ten home defeats last season. Contributory factors being that there is no interest in any cup competition, nor is there any percievable ambition to do anything other than be around next year to go through the exact same motions.

OK, Ok, I know this is all old hat - it's all been said before.

My point is this -

John Williams, the board, the Jersey trustees - whoever, are responsible for the running of BRFC.These problems have been pointed out to them through various avenues. Individuals and the fans forum members have all told them of the problem. It is their job to address the problems and to sell BRFC as a desirable item [in want of better words].

In view of what they have been told, what has anyone at the club done to address these problems. Does anyone recall any messages of real ambition being shouted from the rooftops? What has been done to really turn a very poor rovers side into one of real quality or indeed has anyone heard that rovers will be gunning for all cup competitions next season, with a full strength squad?

It's alright saying it's down to the fans to turn up and support the side every week, but the people in charge of running this club must take their share of the blame for falling season ticket sales. The only people who can turn around the displays of the last three years are John Williams, the board and the Jersey trustees. They are responsible for the goods on sale.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

WOH!,WOH!!WOH!!!.....I'm sorry Ossydave but to call Blackburn a non footballing town is ludicrous in the least!

We are, despite our falling support, STILL one of the best supported 'town teams' in the UK and our club has a tradition many so called bigger city clubs would die for.....BACK OFF FELLA!!

Edited July 7, 2004 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[American]

I still don't get the poor cup thing over the past 3 years. Last year yes, but a cup win and a semi is poor? Are we expected to win them all?

[Scotty]

I still don't get the poor cup thing over the past 3 years. Last year yes, but a cup win and a semi is poor? Are we expected to win them all?

Nope, but we are expected to compete for them all. Last year we couldn't be arsed in two of them.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

But, to say we have tremendous and loyal support is in my opinion way off the mark. Where on earth was this support in Div 2?!?!

I can clearly remember some fantastic 5,000+ away followings back then Dave in the 'bad old days' that at the time belittled the clubs position.

[roversmum]

Well for my two penneth:

The main reason for falling S.T. sales has been the ABYSMAL home form in the last three seasons. For the major part - really poor. Ten home defeats last season. Contributory factors being that there is no interest in any cup competition, nor is there any percievable ambition to do anything other than be around next year to go through the exact same motions.

OK, Ok, I know this is all old hat - it's all been said before.

My point is this -

John Williams, the board, the Jersey trustees - whoever, are responsible for the running of BRFC.These problems have been pointed out to them through various avenues. Individuals and the fans forum members have all told them of the problem. It is their job to address the problems and to sell BRFC as a desirable item [in want of better words].

In view of what they have been told, what has anyone at the club done to address these problems. Does anyone recall any messages of real ambition being shouted from the rooftops? What has been done to really turn a very poor rovers side into one of real quality or indeed has anyone heard that rovers will be gunning for all cup competitions next season, with a full strength squad?

It's alright saying it's down to the fans to turn up and support the side every week, but the people in charge of running this club must take their share of the blame for falling season ticket sales. The only people who can turn around the displays of the last three years are John Williams, the board and the Jersey trustees. They are responsible for the goods on sale.

Den, you are absolutely right.

Have the Jersey Trustees got any ambition, other than keeping things ticking over? Are they planning for the future? Dothey care?

If they want Rovers to be a viable business they have to produce the goods.

As has been pointed out (many times) even during the 2002/2003 season when we came sixth, there were a lot of dire, lacklustre performances.

Bring the passion back to the team to bring the fans back to Ewood!

[Tris]

Have the Jersey Trustees got any ambition, other than keeping things ticking over? Are they planning for the future? Dothey care?

If they want Rovers to be a viable business they have to produce the goods.

No, yes and no.

Because anyone can see that Rovers can never ever be a viable or successful business - the numbers don't add up and will never add up.

The trustees are supposed to be ensuring that all of Jack Walkers businesses - the whole portfolio - are properly run.

Witness the growth of flybe. Well run, expanding, great prospects.

The commitment to Rovers goes no further than ensuring the safe survival of the football club.

I should imagine that John Williams had quite a hard time persuading the trustees to part with the money which boosted income by the equivalent of 3,000 on the average gate last year.

I should imagine that this year his job will be even harder, the trustees can turn round and say "We gave you x million last season. What's your case for this season - you're losing paying customers, income and turnover are down and the league finish was down. Why should we pour in more money?"

And indeed, why should they ?

[FourLaneBlue]

I should imagine that John Williams had quite a hard time persuading the trustees to part with the money which boosted income by the equivalent of 3,000 on the average gate last year.

I should imagine that this year his job will be even harder, the trustees can turn round and say "We gave you x million last season. What's your case for this season - you're losing paying customers, income and turnover are down and the league finish was down. Why should we pour in more money?"

And indeed, why should they ?

And...I should imagine that if John Williams then said..."It isn't our fault! It's the customers fault for not buying the product anymore" (as some on here suggest) then he'd be laughed out the room and rightly so. That's how it would be seen if it was supposed to be a business..

Tris - You make some very ionteresting points about how the trust sees Rovers and I'd be interested to know exactly how they do view Rovers. We have been told snippets but we haven't heard anything directly from them. oh, to be a fly on the wall when the members of the Trust discussed Rovers...

[Alan75]

roversmum Bring the passion back to the team to bring the fans back to Ewood!

I believe to a point you've hit the nail on the head there.

Bearing in mind the way that Souness played, I cant for the life of me understand the lack of passion shown by his players. I fear that to many of the squad are mercenaries, their only concern being how much money they pick up at the end of each week. OK thats what everyones aim is to pick up as much pay as possible, however in the real world that we work in, if we didn't perform, our employers would quickly show us the door.

Maybe Souness has recognized the fact that a large per centage of his players are fat cats with heavy pay packets and they aren't hungry for success and these factors have been instrumental in why he signed the likes of Dickov and Mateo, players who may not be world class but play with commitment and passion.

In my opinion, Steads rise to fame at Ewood has been down to his hunger to succeed. He has become a fans favorite not just because of his goals but also his willingness to chase for the ball.