The Sun - And Its Pile Of **** Apology.

[Ossydave]

Typical Merseyside, living in the past with a chip on its shoulder. Scousers Against The World is their motto; no wonder Liverpool has been in decline for years and its population leaving in droves.

Ha ha ha...read it all now.

What year is blackburn the capital of culture, and what else are you famous for?

Just bitter lad...oooohhh, taste that lemon.

Famous for featuring in THAT Beatles song? One would have thought they were so proud of Merseyside they'd sing only about you.

Taste the lemon? Is THAT the reason for your hilarious (not) MUNICH chants aimed at the Mancs year after year after year?!?!? Believe it or not there's no worldwide conspiracy against you oh so cheeky scouse boys.

Grow up you clown.

[AlanK]

Skemlad, what is your final aim exactly?

[broadsword]

Typical Merseyside, living in the past with a chip on its shoulder. Scousers Against The World is their motto; no wonder Liverpool has been in decline for years and its population leaving in droves.

Ha ha ha...read it all now.

What year is blackburn the capital of culture, and what else are you famous for?

Just bitter lad...oooohhh, taste that lemon.

Spot the Murdoch Employee.

I wouldn't even wipe my bum with the Sun.

If things had moved on and Murdoch still didn't have his fingers in numerous media pies internationally then perhaps it would be time for closure. But that ain't the case.

Would never have Sky in the house, don't buy the Sun or the Times, and hats off to Dennis Potter for calling his tumour "Rupert"!

[modes98]

Because in 15 years of boycotting that rag it is proven that they have lost over £17m worth of profit...thats why it is a proven fact that they devote more column inches on average to the merseyside clubs than any other in the country.

So really your saying you want to be in the sun? or do you want them to just print stories about your club to try and make up for something that happened along time ago and quiet frankly should be left in the past.

On the one hand you and the whole of liverpool have cost a billionaire a few million wow big deal... Grabbi & Yorke cost us about the same!

I wouldn't really say this is football either can we create a revenge folder?

Go Tabliods

[T4E]

Skemlad, what is your final aim exactly?

The question this thread has been crying out for.......

[Uddersfelt Blue]

Mind ya car Mister?

[colin]

I wouldn't even wipe my bum with the Sun.

Me neither.

I think that this attitude of "get over it" is misguided and somewhat callous.

The Scoucers lost 95 friends, relatives, and family all down to crap policing and stewarding at a football match.

To then add insult to injury, The Sun then accused them of pissing on bodies, pick-pocketing the dead, and beating up coppers who were trying to resusitate the dying.

Just imagine that on 23rd February 2002 something had gone horribly wrong and The Sun had accused you, me, Abbey, Bryan, Paul, Steve B, Laughatthedingles, Tugay, Modes,Ossey(....the list goes on) of robbing our fellow Rovers' supporters who were dead.

I don't think any of us would be able to "get over it." I don't think The Sun would sell a single copy in Blackburn any more.

I admire Mottman and Skem lad and the rest of them for keeping the torch burning and wish them the best of luck in whatever they do.

[Tris]

Last Friday I had a meeting in Liverpool (which is rare) and had some free time after it finished. I was driving back up the A59 to the motorway and suddenly saw a sign which sparked a thought and next thing I'd turned right towards Anfield.

I'd only ever seen the Hillsborough Memorial on Rovers away match days, always hundreds of people around. On the spur of the moment I wanted to go and reflect there on my own.

I parked at the "front" of the ground near the shop and walked round the side to Anfield Road where we go in to the away end. I thought there'd be no one around, but there was a car parked next to the memorial. Looked like a family, or at least a mum with teenaged children. They were either on the way to or back from a funeral, judging by the way they were dressed.

Across the street, pacing around, was this guy who had clearly got out of the car to let his emotions go. I was quite choked and walked on, waited 10 minutes and went back to the memorial. A few scarves, flowers, a message from some PSV fans, the eternal flame and all the names.

Now for all the people who say "let it go" I'd just say this - football is emotional, injustice is emotional, needless loss of life is more emotional and the memory of loved ones is quite something else.

I get fed up of reading comments relating this to Liverpool stereotypes. What happened in Sheffield could have happened to any of us. It could have been any football supporters of any team in this country.

If a few folk have found the way to keep up the battle in memory of the people they lost by reminding fellow football fans in forums such as this one then I think it deserves more than a shallow "move on". I'll stop there, because there are some contributions to this thread which don't merit any further comment.

[Lathund]

I'm not from Liverpool, I'm not from England nor am I related to anyone who is. And I don't particularly like Liverpool FC either.

But I find The Suns behaviour to be disgraceful. I especially find this very ironic:

"The misery being inflicted on Wayne Rooney is a crude effort by them to make commercial gain."

And writing those stories in 1989 which they KNEW were lies wasn't just to make commercial gain?

Writing this half-arsed apology (Which is only a couple of lines of apologies, and the rest is blaming others) isn't just to get more people to buy The Sun because of the Rooney story?

Now, as I don't live in the UK and have never actually read the sun, apart from online articles, maybe you think I don't really have a valid opinion of the paper. Fair enough, but from what I've read it's a hell of a lot worse than the most horrible tabloids we have in Sweden. And I thoroughly despise those... I can't honestly believe how ANYONE can read such tripe as The Sun. Regardless of Hillsborough or not. Maybe it's because of the Page 3 girls, I don't know. But if that's what you want. there are many other magazines with much better girls anyway.

[tcj_jones]

I wouldn't even wipe my bum with the Sun.

Me neither.

I think that this attitude of "get over it" is misguided and somewhat callous.

The Scoucers lost 95 friends, relatives, and family all down to crap policing and stewarding at a football match.

To then add insult to injury, The Sun then accused them of pissing on bodies, pick-pocketing the dead, and beating up coppers who were trying to resusitate the dying.

Just imagine that on 23rd February 2002 something had gone horribly wrong and The Sun had accused you, me, Abbey, Bryan, Paul, Steve B, Laughatthedingles, Tugay, Modes,Ossey(....the list goes on) of robbing our fellow Rovers' supporters who were dead.

I don't think any of us would be able to "get over it." I don't think The Sun would sell a single copy in Blackburn any more.

I admire Mottman and Skem lad and the rest of them for keeping the torch burning and wish them the best of luck in whatever they do.

I agree entirely with this post. I knew little of the event until the posts of Mottman and Skemlad encouraged me to probe further and, while i never really did buy the sun, i make sure others in my family do not as well.

Many of the posts on this thread are callous and yet Skemlad has remained entirely pleasent and respectful of your views, i would ask nothing less of the rest of you.

[FourLaneBlue]

If a few folk have found the way to keep up the battle in memory of the people they lost by reminding fellow football fans in forums such as this one then I think it deserves more than a shallow "move on". I'll stop there, because there are some contributions to this thread which don't merit any further comment.

I'm not going to comment on the other points raised in this thread but I will say to Tris that that is one of the most moving and thought-provoking posts I have read on here for many a day.

[dave birch]

Indeed FLB, tris' post was very moving.

If you forget the past, you can fear for the future.

Something like that should never happen to anyone. It should never be forgotten.

It's a poor state of affairs where an organisation cannot see the error of it's ways and avoid making a full , frank and deep apology.

All it does is confirm the view that some newspapers and the people that run them are ratbags, and deserve the scorn thrown at them.

Skemlad, Mottman, keep it up.

[joey_big_nose]

The Sun, The Mirror, The Daily Mail (especially) etc all rely on sensation to sell newspapers and all report vitriolic bile with no real interest in journalism, merely in profits.

The Hillsborough report was a quite breath taking example of this but in general the moral standard of the mirror is no better than the sun.

The people who are responsible for this cancer on our society are not the editors or journalists but the idiots who buy them.

[Alan75]

tris What happened in Sheffield could have happened to any of us. It could have been any football supporters of any team in this country.

If a few folk have found the way to keep up the battle in memory of the people they lost by reminding fellow football fans in forums such as this one then I think it deserves more than a shallow "move on".

A moving post tris, and a reminder to us all how easy it is to forget events.

Although not to the scale of Hillsborough, I wonder how many members of this board are aware of a disaster that effected Rovers supporters and how would they have felt if the media had hiped up the event to sell papers.

For those unaware of Rovers history.

In 1952 after an away fixture at Bury, a railway station bridge carrying supporters collapsed. My father in law who was at the game told me of the event, yet sadly the only brief description of events I have ever come across was :-

Extracted from Charles Lambert's The Club that Jack Built

"Thousands had made the same journey, and were now queuing in good natured chaos to get into Bury's Knowsley Street station for the return journey.

Around 200 supporters were on the station footbridge, with more waiting noisily, when the sheer weight of people proved to much."

"Amid hideous shrieks, the edifice crumbled into a heap of dust, masonary and metal. Scores of people fell with it, tumbling onto the the rubble and train tracks below"

"In all 175 people required treatment and a 66 year old Rovers fan named William Moses died"

One of the men who was at the end of the bridge and who helped in rescue was Jack Walker.

[trueblue]

Well said Tris... Excellent post mate

My thoughts were certainly for the families and friends of the 96 as I read it.

[Manchester Blue]

Great posts Tris & Colin. I do fine it disturbing that people can make snidey comments or sly digs really. Like Colin said just imagine if it was our fans, which it could easily have been. How would we feel if that rag had behaved like that? Would 15 years have eased the pain? I don't think so.

[Ricky]

I Hope Skemlad returns to read Tris' post. I attended the Hilsbourough tribute concert some years ago, it was a very moving event and the raw emotion about the place was a very sombering experience.

The one thing I would say is that it is entirely wrong to pin any of this blame on Wayne Rooney. Liverpool players have spoke to the sun and done interviews before. Edgar Davids was seen reading the sun whilst flying to England, would he have been berated for doing so if he had signed for Liverpool, I doubt it.

Also I find it unbelievable that Liverpool fans still sing songs about the Munich Air Disaster when they play Man U, surely fans who have known the heartache of a huge disaster should not sing in jest about another one.

[Rich]

Last Friday I had a meeting in Liverpool (which is rare) and had some free time after it finished.  I was driving back up the A59 to the motorway and suddenly saw a sign which sparked a thought and next thing I'd turned right towards Anfield.

I'd only ever seen the Hillsborough Memorial on Rovers away match days, always hundreds of people around.  On the spur of the moment I wanted to go and reflect there on my own.

I parked at the "front" of the ground near the shop and walked round the side to Anfield Road where we go in to the away end.  I thought there'd be no one around, but there was a car parked next to the memorial.  Looked like a family, or at least a mum with teenaged children.  They were either on the way to or back from a funeral, judging by the way they were dressed.

Across the street, pacing around, was this guy who had clearly got out of the car to let his emotions go.  I was quite choked and walked on, waited 10 minutes and went back to the memorial.  A few scarves, flowers, a message from some PSV fans, the eternal flame and all the names.

Now for all the people who say "let it go" I'd just say this - football is emotional, injustice is emotional, needless loss of life is more emotional and the memory of loved ones is quite something else.

I get fed up of reading comments relating this to Liverpool stereotypes.  What happened in Sheffield could have happened to any of us.  It could have been any football supporters of any team in this country.

If a few folk have found the way to keep up the battle in memory of the people they lost by reminding fellow football fans in forums such as this one then I think it deserves more than a shallow "move on".  I'll stop there, because there are some contributions to this thread which don't merit any further comment.

Thanks Tris.

[Paul]

Thanks Tris. The last time Mottman raised this subject I didn't post but did have a "it's time to move on feeling". Tris has reminded me of what I felt that day and in the days that followed.

The same day Rovers put in an elctrifying performance to beat Man City, champions and promoted, 4 - 0. News filtered through at half time that the semi had been abandoned due to crowd problems. I can remember assumming it was the Liverpool fans who were responsible, back at the car an hour later I began to get an understanding of the horror of the event. The following Monday I went to Anfield to pay my respects. I felt guilt in celebrating a Rovers win, assuming the worst of the Liverpool fans, when those people were only hoping for the same thing as me.

We all need reminding of Hillsborough on occassions and one has to have respect for those who can find the energy to do so when it might be easier to forget.

Like Bryan I won't have Murdoch media in the house. As the kids get older we try to broaden the discussion about why they cannot have Sky TV from the pap that it is to the wider implications of media control.

[Roaming Rover]

Good posts Tris and Colin. I can not believe a post like this has been turned into a slanging match between which is best Blackburn or Liverpool.

As for the 'get over it' comments. This isn't about someone losing a gold fish, its 96 lifes that have been lost and as has already been mentioned if it happended to any Rovers fans it would take more than 15 years for us to forget.

I remember Chubby Brown doing a gig in Bradford a couple of years ago, and his first line was ' have I missed the BBQ' he was lucky to get out alive and will never work in Bradford again - They will never forget.

I imagine what Skemlad and others like him want to achieve is that all the papers know that they can not write what they want about Football Supporters or people in general, and basically disrespect the dead and their relatives and Friends.

News papers (and the media in general) get away with printing rubbish, look at the pictures in the Mirror during the Iraq war, and as has been mentioned the Foe pictures, and i think we should applaud people who stand up to them

I think time should heal and things should be left in the past but I have never had to open a paper to find comments like that written about my Friends and family.

[Cheshireblue]

Nobody ever wants to see a repeat of the Hillsborough events. My father was a policeman at the time, not in Yorkshire I might add, and he regularly had to police football matches. It could have happened anywhere and that really drove it home to us and him.

We haven't forgotten the events, but the way that certain groups of people carry this bitterness towards the Sun just seems entirely pointless. It is a scumbag tabloid that deals in lies, half truths and sensationalism. So does every other tabloid in the country. They have all told lies and still do on a daily basis.

I am not in any way seeking to demean the loss of the families on that day in 1989, but to claim that the city and its inhabitants have had to carry a stain a result of the Suns actions is just absurd.

Scousers had earnt their reputation as idle, slackass, work-shy thieves long before Hillsborough, and in my view, banging on about the damage the Sun supposedly caused 15 years later achieves nothing and is starting to make the Hillsborough campaigners look more than just a little petty. The Sun was wrong, they've admitted it, it really is time to move on and honour the memory of those that died rather than just keep throwing mud in their name.

As for city of culture, well if that isn't a gratuitous attempt to secure EU money to try to reverse the decay of the city then I don't know what is.

Isn't Skem in Lancashire?

[Manchester Blue]

Isn't Cheshire in ummmm Cheshire?

[Parasyte]

Considering the nature of how this topic started - slating the Sun - I think it validates the 'move on' posts here. If I was accused of pissing in the pockets of dead people, I too, would be outraged, but after 15 years, I'd honor the dead by not bringing up one of the worst stories printed on these shores. Its almost as if the 96 deaths havent been fully laid to rest. Dont get me wrong, the Sun is a crap paper printing in lies, etc, and the apology is fairly shoddy, but the Wayne Rooney thing does have a point. Why take even mention the incident, just because he's involved with the paper. Its not as if he's having a dig at the Liverpool fans that died, he did it pure and simple for money.

Dont forget, but I thinking dawdling on a mid-way stage of mourning 15 years on is pushing it.

[Tom Pringle]

Superb posts from all in the Tris trail of through

How would you lot who were saying 'get over it', like people to tell us to get over jack passing away?

Get over 9/11?

Get over D-Day?

[Parasyte]

I think, perhaps, people are getting 'get over it' and 'moving on' muddled. I'm 17 and have known far too many family members die. 'Getting over it' isnt even an option, aside from being bad advice. Moving on, though, is more a requirement, unless you want to live a life dour and miserable. Or thats my interpretation of a lot of this thread, anyway. I doubt any (well, most) people here would be so insensitive as to think people would just get over it.