The Sun - And Its Pile Of **** Apology.

[Manchester Blue]

you forget one thing skem lad

the pen WAS overcrowded was it not ?

therefore

either the club sold more tickets than it had actually been allocated

or

somebody produced forgeries to sell beforehand

Or the Police opened a gate they should never have done and too many people flooded into a pen that was already hopelessly overcrowded.

[roversmum]

Are you back on this thread? Thought you were sick of it all?

Do us a favour lad...if you dont agree, or dont care then fine...or if you dislike us as people, and as a club then fine as well...but dont bring down the good posts made by other fans from yer own club with sarcastic and humourless posts like that.

I hope that there is never a point in your life where you have to experience any of the things some of the families/survivors of Hillsborough had to endure. Yeah, maybe there are things bigger and worse in the world...but when something effects your little corner of the world, it doesnt half make things hit home - dont agree, but at least have some respect!!!

Skemlad. Perhaps you could be bothered to read roversactive's post as you are so keen for him to read yours.

(roversactive)This is getting worse, why are you all posting extracts from books and websites, I've read all of these before. You obviously came on here because you wanted our opinions, and you don't think that we should give them - infact I feel that you are telling us what is right.

The day will never be forgotten but again, let thoose who fell RIP, they deserve that if nothing else. Hold a grudge against the sun forevermore, I don't have a problem with that - its just that every 6 months you have to come and tell us all about it again!

I know what happened and as a football fan that day will never be forgotten, I understand how bad it really was but there is a time surely when these should be just memories rather then a vendetta against anyone. I'm sure that if any football fan could change anything in history it would be this event but its impossible to do so.

I really am taking an even bigger dislike to the fans of Liverpool Football Club. not just because of this, but everything - how I always have to skip through essay's of the Kop, anti Souness and Hillsbrough Threads. If I wanted to talk about these topics seriously or in depth I would honestly visit one of your many websites.

I saw this tradegy happen. It's beyond words. Beyond comprehension. Beyond belief.

You want justice. Anyone would. But could you not just put links up for us?

As roversactive says, we have read these articles, some of us were there, some of us saw it on tv. All of us mourned, some of us wept, as I do even now thinking about it. All of us wish (for want of a more emotive word) that it had never happened.

The Sun printed - possibly in good faith - what someone reported. It shouldn't have done so, it has admitted so and attempted an apology. It shouldn't have been written, it shouldn't have been printed, but it was. Unfortunately with today's thirst for information and, yes, sensationalism, such publications are careless with the truth. And I doubt that anyone who isn't directly involved could truly understand. There is surely more dignity for anyone concerned in honour.

Honour your boycott, but remember, it is your boycott. People will buy such newspapers for many reasons - but that is for another discussion.

Honour those who died.

Honour your quest for justice.

And don't assume that others have not had tragedy in their lives please.

Edited July 9, 2004 by roversmum

[Manchester Blue]

Roversactive came onto the thread asking Skemlad to stop posting despite the fact that many people have appreciated and supported the posts he has made. Like Ricky says it's quite clear from the thread what it's about so if you don't want to read then don't.

To suggest that because this is a Blackburn website it shouldn't be on is nonsense. This incident should concern us all because it could have been any club that was affected.

It is not their boycott it is many other like minded souls that were appalled at the disgrace that was carried out by that rag.

[roversmum]

No, what he was saying was it might be better not to keep posting all the essays as it has been done before, and I suggested giving links so that those who needed to do so could go there to prevent the message board being clogged up with such long posts - also website links could prove to be more useful, for information for those who felt they could offer something - help or something practical for example. The discussion is not the question.

[Manchester Blue]

Sorry but that is rubbish.

Roversactive came on moaning about the length of the 'essay's and then said if I went onto a Liverpool site posting stuff it would be unwelcome. That shows a lack of understanding of what the subject is about beyond belief.

Then said 'a sincere apology means nothing to a Liverpool fan'.

Now I can apprecaite people having different points of view but this issue is not about Liverpool or Blackburn it's more important than that.

If someone wasn't around or can't when it happened or can't be bothered reading then please don't bother but stop posting nonsense.

The argument of whether it's cloggin up the messageboard is for the mods & admin if you don' want to read then please stop doing so.

[American]

I hope that there is never a point in your life where you have to experience any of the things some of the families/survivors of Hillsborough had to endure. Yeah, maybe there are things bigger and worse in the world...but when something effects your little corner of the world, it doesnt half make things hit home - dont agree, but at least have some respect!!!

And I'm sure if it did happen to us, you'd be right there with a song about it like you do for ManU.

[tashor]

I hope that there is never a point in your life where you have to experience any of the things some of the families/survivors of Hillsborough had to endure. Yeah, maybe there are things bigger and worse in the world...but when something effects your little corner of the world, it doesnt half make things hit home - dont agree, but at least have some respect!!!

There is a point in everybodies life when they experience such utter misery if they live long enough. Please stop being so bloody precious.

It goes without saying ( but of course one has to say it anyhow ) how truely awful the events at Hillsborough were. I cried my eyes out as I watched the events alone on the tele.

How come we never hear compassion for the negligent authorities who must endure their own private misery?

How come you never except any responsibility for the slaughter of the innocents?

How come you never show any respect to anyone else but merely luxuriate in your own self-indulgent hell-hole.

[SkemLad]

Ive said what I wanted/needed to say. Im not gonna get into a slagging match about things on a tangent to it all.

Thanks for those who read, whether you agree or not.

May you have an enjoyable season.

Best of Luck.

SkemLad.

[Ninjathunder]

A sincere apology means nothing to a Liverpool fan.

Roversactive - given the gravity of the horror of Hillsborough, a comment like that is nothing short of pathetic.

[roversactive]

A sincere apology means nothing to a Liverpool fan.

Roversactive - given the gravity of the horror of Hillsborough, a comment like that is nothing short of pathetic.

I'm not talking about the disaster, the Sun did was not the cause of the disaster, but made allegations afterwards and have apologized for them. I didn't say that an apology should make everything better but it shows that the Sun has shown a lot of regret for what happened in their newspaper yet a minority continue to act as if nothing has been said and that the Sun still show the ignorrance that they did at the time. Rooney should not take any blaime for talking to the sun, boycott the Sun by all means but don't hold a grudge against a Young Wayne Rooney for it.

Edited July 10, 2004 by roversactive

[Manchester Blue]

But that's the whole point the Sun have come out with a very half-hearted apology 15 years to late and only because of the Rooney situation. Even in the 'apology' they can't resist turning it into another slanging match with the Mirror. So you see your comment of 'a sincere apology means nothing to a Scouser' is not only offensive but comlpetely untrue.

The only regret the Sun has for what it did is the millions they have lost on Merseyside as a result of the boycott. The apology isn't worth the paper it is written on.

Also the boycott is only a minor part of the campaign. The fact that the families still haven't recieved any justice and that cover-ups and disgraces have still gone unpunished means these people can never truly rest.

As one of the many books on the subject that can be read is called 'No last rights'. That is what they are fighting for and if you haven't the time or inclination to take any interest then just don't read let alone post on the thread.

[roversactive]

But that's the whole point the Sun have come out with a very half-hearted apology 15 years to late and only because of the Rooney situation. Even in the 'apology' they can't resist turning it into another slanging match with the Mirror. So you see your comment of 'a sincere apology means nothing to a Scouser' is not only offensive but comlpetely untrue.

The only regret the Sun has for what it did is the millions they have lost on Merseyside as a result of the boycott. The apology isn't worth the paper it is written on.

Also the boycott is only a minor part of the campaign. The fact that the families still haven't recieved any justice and that cover-ups and disgraces have still gone unpunished means these people can never truly rest.

As one of the many books on the subject that can be read is called 'No last rights'. That is what they are fighting for and if you haven't the time or inclination to take any interest then just don't read let alone post on the thread.

I was actually at the time relating to SG's Post referring to Souness' apology!

I don't want to get into an argument with anyone about it, so theres no point me saying anymore on this topic.

[Manchester Blue]

Fair enough I assumed you were referring to the Sun apology. I'll leave it at that then.

[Rovermatt]

Typical of The Sun.

Fifteen years late with an apology stretching to ten lines, instantly followed by thirty lines blabbing on about how The Mirror is orchestrating a campaign against Rooney.

The cynicism is breath-taking.

It's hardly surprising. Why would such a base, right-wing rag issue a sincere apology when instead it could go off on some paranoid diatribe about one of its rivals? I never buy the Sun and I never will.

[accyrover]

Frankly mate I don't care and I don't know why you can't just let it go - nobody in their right mind buys the Sun or the Daily Mail (or any of that sh!t) anyway.

Clearly sales stats prove you are wrong.

There's obviously a lot of people 'not in the right mind' then.

Just let it go. It was a very sad moment in history and The Sun was out of order, but then they're not renowned for their journalistic scruples. There's nothing you can do to change what has happened and constantly bleating on about the Sun will not change history.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do after all this time and I hope you can eventually come to terms with it.

Accyrover

[FourLaneBlue]

Seems that 'The Sun' can't seem to "let it go" either, hence their using of Wayne Rooney in a propaganda stunt and being unable to offer any kind of worthwhile apology without having a childish little pop at 'The Mirror'.

Edited July 10, 2004 by FourLaneBlue

[blue phil]

The cynicism is breath-taking.

It's hardly surprising. Why would such a base, right-wing rag issue a sincere apology when instead it could go off on some paranoid diatribe about one of its rivals?

A "right wing" rag that supported the Labour Party in the last election - some would argue it's not that right wing then ...! Welcome back Matt BTW .

Roversmum - I admire you for sticking up for your fellow Clayton Brook resident but maybe a quiet word in his ear would have been more appropiate.....

[blue phil]

How come we never hear compassion for the negligent authorities who must endure their own private misery?

How come you never except any responsibility for the slaughter of the innocents?

.

That's a bit strong Tashor , my friend .

Those (criminally) negligent authorities who genuinely made errors of judgement and have admitted as such are to be pitied more than anything - authority can bring awesome responsibility at times. However , those who knowingly leaked lies of the most repugnant nature in order to avoid responsibility , and those who printed those lies for purely senstionalist reasons without checking the facts ; and all those who have avoided culpability since , are to be condemned in the strongest possible terms . No sympathy for them.

As for Scousers accepting responsibility ? For what ? Going to a football match ? There is no evidence for any excessive drinking or fighting or anything other than an eagerness to get into the ground - unless the lies printed at the time are still having an effect on some people...

I said earlier in the thread that most "working class" people are too intelligent to believe the tabloid papers - now I'm not so sure. Maybe Goebbell's principle of the big lie is true after all !

[Rovermatt]

The cynicism is breath-taking.

It's hardly surprising. Why would such a base, right-wing rag issue a sincere apology when instead it could go off on some paranoid diatribe about one of its rivals?

A "right wing" rag that supported the Labour Party in the last election - some would argue it's not that right wing then ...! Welcome back Matt BTW .

The last election was how many years ago? The Sun is tangibly right-wing nowadays, although that could change of course. Whatever sells eh?

Oh and thankyou for the welcome, this 9-5 lark has been taking it's toll.

[blue phil]

LOL - you're in the real world now ; well as real as it can be for a lawyer

[thenodrog]

The Sun is tangibly right-wing nowadays, although that could change of course.

But surely so is Tony Blair and the rest of his New Labour party are'nt they?

[thenodrog]

Sh1t happens and on that day at Hillsborough it happened big style.

But....

1. There is not a tabloid worth taking seriously anyway. Their only tactic is to attempt to satiate society's ever increasing need for sensational headlines. Sometimes, as in this case, this goes too far. Cynic as I am I guess that in private tabloid wine bar circles the only perceived sin would be that it was a hugely costly editing decision by Kelvin McKenzie.

Dont just attempt to discourage people buying the Sun but discourage people buying ALL tabloids! They all ###### in the same pot ffs and if the front pages were missing nobody would know which one they were reading.

How many scousers boycott Talk Sport?

2. Blame has been laid at a variety of places but one thing is for sure Hillsborough was not the fault of the Sun newspaper! Imo the useless rag that it is is being turned into a scapegoat in some eyes. I would think that some of todays less informed (bothered?) teenagers might just be of the opinion that the Sun had some blame for the disaster attached to it.

3. This may be contentious but Hillsborough is a recent event but how many of Liverpools finest were killed by German bombs during WW2? Do as many people visit the war memorials to weep as visit the Anfield shrine to do so? Is it just me or does anybody else fel that this is all a bit like crocodile tears when considering how many Liverpudlians currently own German cars but refuse to buy the Sun?

Finally if the Hillsborough Justice campaign want to maintain a lasting legacy should they not pay less attention to the past (no one can turn the clock back now can they?) but more to the present and to the future by throwing their weight into making sure that the Taylor report.... which was necessitated by the disasters at Heyshall, Hillsborough and Bradford.... is adhered to and that the current (and increasing) stupidity of fans standing throughout football matches is discouraged in the strongest possible fashion. The authorities at all grounds are struggling to uphold the rules and deter increasing incidents of this so maybe the responsibility should be accepted by the fans that rem the hard lessons of the 80's and want to make sure that such incidents never happen again.

Edited July 11, 2004 by thenodrog

[Rovermatt]

LOL - you're in the real world now ; well as real as it can be for a lawyer

I'm surrounded by the @#/?s. Bloody lawyers.

[Manchester Blue]

Sh1t happens and on that day at Hillsborough it happened big style.

But....

1. There is not a tabloid worth taking seriously anyway. There only tactic is to attempt to satiate society's ever increasing need for sensational headlines. Sometimes, as in this case, this goes too far. Cynic as I am I guess that in private tabloid wine bar circles the only perceived sin would be that it was a hugely costly editing decision by Kelvin McKenzie.

Dont just attempt to discourage people buying the Sun but discourage people buying ALL tabloids! They all ###### in the same pot ffs and if the front pages were missing nobody would know which one they were reading.

How many scousers boycott Talk Sport?

2. Blame has been laid at a variety of places but one thing is for sure Hillsborough was not the fault of the Sun newspaper! Imo the useless rag that it is is being turned into a scapegoat in some eyes. I would think that some of todays less informed (bothered?) teenagers might just be of the opinion that the Sun had some blame for the disaster attached to it.

3. This may be contentious but Hillsborough is a recent event but how many of Liverpools finest were killed by German bombs during WW2? Do as many people visit the war memorials to weep as visit the Anfield shrine to do so? Is it just me or does anybody else fel that this is all a bit like crocodile tears when considering how many Liverpudlians currently own German cars but refuse to buy the Sun?

Finally if the Hillsborough Justice campaign want to maintain a lasting legacy should they not pay less attention to the past (no one can turn the clock back now can they?) but more to the present and to the future by throwing their weight into making sure that the Taylor report.... which was necessitated by the disasters at Heyshall, Hillsborough and Bradford.... is adhered to and that the current (and increasing) stupidity of fans standing throughout football matches is discouraged in the strongest possible fashion. The authorities at all grounds are struggling to uphold the rules and deter increasing incidents of this so maybe the responsibility should be accepted by the fans that rem the hard lessons of the 80's and want to make sure that such incidents never happen again.

Tripe, tripe and utter tripe. That is one of the worst post I have ever read on this message board made worse by the fact that someone who is supposedly intelligent posted it.

How on earth can you compare it to WWII. They were going to a football match FFS. The young men & women who gave there lives for their country in the war may just have had inkling of the danger that awaited them. What with the guns and bombs and stuff like that. These people were just off to support their team.

The HJC do want to ensure it never happens again but the main thing they want, which is kind of given away in the name, is JUSTICE. Justice for people like Trevor Hicks who lost both his daughters aged 19 & 15. Justice for the people whose loved ones were left dying on the grass because inept police officers being led by an even more inept Chief Supt in charge of his 1st ever match couldn't do their jobs properly.

I could go on for hours and hours about the disgraces that took place that day, about the appalling behaviour that has gone on since to cover up evidence, deny justice and just be as obstructive as possible. Lest we forget 96 football fans died largely because people who were paid to deal with them didn't do there jobs properly. Yet only the Taylor report has ever criticized the South Yorkshire police, no court or coroner has ever done so.

Why i'm bothering I don't know but for the record, many of those responsible for the crimes during WWII have been tried and dealt with not one person has ever been charged over Hillsborough, not one.

[Hasta]

I really am taking an even bigger dislike to the fans of Liverpool Football Club. not just because of this, but everything - how I always have to skip through essay's of the Kop, anti Souness and Hillsbrough Threads. If I wanted to talk about these topics seriously or in depth I would honestly visit one of your many websites.

I've not read this thread up until now as I knew full well what it was about and, as I normal just spend a 10 minute glance at the site, didn't really have the time to read it. However not for one minute have I minded it's presence. If you don't want to read it then don't read the bloody thing!

However as I can't get to sleep I've sifted through every post in this thread and am glad I did. The 'essay' by the 17yr old Gary who was in the Leppings Lane end that day is one of the most chilling and emotional accounts I have ever read.