[Archived] Verdict On Souness

[SouthAussieRover]

I wouldn't know about that LD but I suggest you be wary of taking on the hiearchy.

[1864roverite]

we could even be the west indies management

now they really are in the poo !!

7-0

[LDRover]

I wouldn't know about that LD but I suggest you be wary of taking on the hiearchy.

If that means I can't express an opinion which I feel is common within the ranks of Rovers supporters then it's a poor do SAR.

I wouldn't say I'm taking on the hierarchy either, just questioning the tactics and selection policies of the manager. I'd like to think that 'the hierarchy' are doing the same to be honest.

[laughatthedingles]

time for a poll me thinks, I'll start, my vote Souness OUT!!! he has lost it. Bring back King Kenny. Edited August 21, 2004 by laughatthedingles

[philipl]

Incredibly frustrated.

In Souneess' favour, he has clearly brought to Ewood Park a very capable and potentially exciting squad of players.

Despite that ludicrous selection, we played really well against Southampton.

Against Souness is the fact that he sent out a selection which was even more bone-headedly wrong than last week's starting XI.

If fit, Neill should have started.

Matteo did better on the left than we could ever have expected and allowed Gray free attacking room, but please get de Pedro match fit!

Flitcroft was as anon.

Utterly crazy. (PS I have some soggy chocolate medals- do those count?)

[greggyk]

be careful what you wish for. Sunderland and Spurs sacked their managers early in the season and sunderland went down and spurs were in the bottom 3 for a while also.

Lets be fair, if we had a different ref we would have drew 2-2 and every1 would be saying thats a good away point and souness made some great subs to change the game.

And yes USA, my brothers laptop (whch Im on) is working fine in his car on the way home

Edited August 21, 2004 by greggyk

[1864roverite]

whats next

andy cole again ?

ffs we are still 14th !

we are in a lot better position than other teams who do have money.

lets wait and see, no need to push the panic button just yet.

I really think the time to judge is after 10 games, lets wait till then and if it needs changing then I am sure the club will change it.

[laughatthedingles]

whats next

andy cole again ?

ffs we are still 14th !

we are in a lot better position than other teams who do have money.

lets wait and see, no need to push the panic button just yet.

I really think the time to judge is after 10 games, lets wait till then and if it needs changing then I am sure the club will change it.

we wont be after 5 games; bottom with 1 point!

[G Somerset Rover]

That's the thing. There's no silver lining at the moment. Arsenal away, Utd home and the Geordies away. And then Pompey at home-a game we'll no doubt bugger up. Soueys got a few things to sort out, but as Phillip said, despite the team that souey put out we did play well.

[Manchester Blue]

There's no point getting hysterical because it's only 2 matches into the new season. THings can change, especially if we buy a few players.

However, we should not lose sight of the fact that in Ferguson, Matteo, Stead, Thompson, Short, Friedel, Neill, Emerton - we have players that most other Premiership managers would love to have.

Souness has them and must get the best out of them or he has to go.

Best post you've made today and I fully agree.

[1864roverite]

we shall see latd

[trueblue]

Incredibly frustrated.

In Souneess' favour, he has clearly brought to Ewood Park a very capable and potentially exciting squad of players.

Despite that ludicrous selection, we played really well against Southampton.

Against Souness is the fact that he sent out a selection which was even more bone-headedly wrong than last week's starting XI.

If fit, Neill should have started.

Matteo did better on the left than we could ever have expected and allowed Gray free attacking room, but please get de Pedro match fit!

Flitcroft was as anon.

Utterly crazy. (PS I have some soggy chocolate medals- do those count?)

Greaty comments Philip..... that ###### of a referee D'Urso will ever be a thorn in our side !

[jim mk2]

Just back from my annual two weeks in Morecambe. Marvellous time.

It may have been mentioned elsewhere but I notice Souness was blaming "Lady Luck" for our demise against Southampton. You would have thought he could have dreamt up a new excuse in the close season.

[AlanK]

Must admit I was cringing a bit when he started going on about that again.

[1864roverite]

blooming heck Jim have you not got flu or somat ? I thought you were bed ridden as it has taken you over 30 hours to post !

[roversmum]

Just back from my annual two weeks in Morecambe. Marvellous time.

It may have been mentioned elsewhere but I notice Souness was blaming "Lady Luck" for our demise against Southampton. You would have thought he could have dreamt up a new excuse in the close season.

Didn't see you at the Reserve match at Christie Park?????? No doubt the lure of Bingo was too strong for you to ignore.

Souey did come up with a new one actually

It was "the rub of the green"

[92er]

Welcome back Jim-now there will be some interesting posts.

[Philly Rover ®]

I'm shamelessly self-quoting from another thread, but I thought it would perhaps be more useful in here:

I'm no longer angry as I have no expectation of this team and manager; they're not actually bad, they're just nothing, non-descript, uninspired, there is no spark of any sort. The pre-match hope of winning has died and I will turn up out of a sense of duty. I'm thoroughly disillusioned, hopefully the board will act in some way. We've no money to buy players, there is only one choice.

What's truly sad, Paul, is that I consider you one of the most level-headed posters on here... this isn't rover6 or Capt Kayos saying they've lost faith in Souness (with no disrespect at all meant to those two), it's a fan who clearly was pro-Souness from the get go and has now completely lost faith in the man. I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet, but I'm slowly starting to move directly onto the fence between the camps.

For any of you familiar with American baseball... I'm a diehard Phillies fan, and thier manager, Larry Bowa, is one of Philadelphia's favorite children. I love the guy--he's fiery, passionate, and emotional, a real throwback guy (hmmm, sounds like another manager I can think of). However, he's now in his fourth season as manager and the Phillies are badly underachieving and will miss the playoffs for the tenth straight year. Do I think it's all Bowa's fault? Not by any means. But there's an old expression in baseball that says, "You can't fire the players."

My point is this: at some point, a coach or manager has taken a team as far as he can, and can't take them any further. It's never completely their fault, but for some reason or another things just aren't working out anymore. Perhaps the players need to hear a new voice; perhaps the team is stale and needs an injection of new life. Whatever the case, it's usually clear that something has to be done, and it's very true that you can't fire the players.

Larry Bowa will be leaving at the end of this season, I'm sure of it. As for Souness... I really genuinely like the guy and think he's done a great job for the club, but perhaps it is time for him to move on. I don't think it's completely been his fault, but he's verging on the point where he may need to go for the good of the club. I'm not ready to say that yet, but personally I'm giving him ten games and then evaluating from there.

In the end, I guess you could say 1864 summed it up best:

lets wait and see, no need to push the panic button just yet.

I really think the time to judge is after 10 games, lets wait till then...

I'm with him.

[Brownie]

In my opinion Souness is an excellent manager and has made more good signings than bad.

However, I don't know if the pressures of last season have had some sort of lasting effect on his outlook but I'm not likeing his selection/tactics policy this season, not one bit.

This policy of hoping to be level at half time and then giving it a go in the second half is frankly ridiculous.

He even mentioned this was his plan for the WBA at home game.

Souness obviously realises he is making mistakes, making two substitutions at half time is an act of desperation. We've done it twice out of two games.

Why can't we start Matteo in the position he was signed - centre half - and play Emerton Thompson DePedro or whoever on the wings ?

This club has only been successful when we have played 4-4-2.

Even George Graham was bemoaning the lack of width when he saw the team sheet on saturday.

This mentality of not losing, keeping it tight, avoiding relegation etc etc has to stop before it's too late.

Souness has put a bloody good squad together compared to what we had when he first came, now it's time for them to express themselves and stop worrying about bloody defeat.

[The Harwood Yankee]

Like many on here I genuinely like Graeme Souness for his commitment and passion - I really do believe that he has a passion for Rovers. However, for the first time since he joined us I have to seriously question whether he remains the right man for the job. I think he has simply run out of chances and excuses.

As has been stated so often (yet never seems to change), his starting line-ups are a joke. He has players back from injury and new signings yet he still fields people out of position and makes eccentric choices which have to be rectified with half-time substitutions with us losing and chasing the game.

Secondly, he falls out with too many players. Cole looks destined to have a good season with Fulham and even showed promise for us, but the position between the two of them was 'untenable'. The other 'baby' is now turning in decent performances for us presumably to earn a move away from Souness. Add to that Todd, Gillespie, Dunn, Berg, etc.... Souness needs to grow up. Hacking your own players down in training is not really conducive to good team spirit.

Thirdly, his excuses for losing - lady luck, referees, blaming individuals - is all a smokescreen for the fact that our manager simply isnt good enough tactically.

Admittedly, he has attracted some good players to the club. But how many of them have realised their full potential under him?

This season Souness has pitted himself against the managerial might and resources of Gary Megson and Paul Sturrock, giving away 2 home points to the former & all 3 points to the latter. We've now got Arsenal & Man Utd to face.

Rovers need every advantage they can muster to survive in this division. I think we've got a very good board, a decent academy, and a manager who has had a lot of chances in the last season. If we are still playing like this by Christmas and Souness remains, we are relegated.

[thenodrog]

Just back from my annual two weeks in Morecambe. Marvellous time.

It may have been mentioned elsewhere but I notice Souness was blaming "Lady Luck" for our demise against Southampton. You would have thought he could have dreamt up a new excuse in the close season.

I agree it simply can't have been that Jim. Lady Luck must have been working overtime this weekend just making sure that you somehow avoided causing all manner of carnage on the M6.

Anyway I'm sure that GS must have been absolutely seething but did'nt he promise to try to avoid disciplinary measures by getting less het-up this season?

[Ricky]

I have never been one of the "Souness out brigade" but this morning I find myself edging ever closer to them.

No one can doubt what he has done for our club, two (short) European Campaigns, promotion, and a fantastic day out in Cardiff. He has had great success with Rovers but I really think he is starting to lose the plot. The team sheets look like a bag of pick n' mix, stick a load of players in a bag, shake em' up and play them in the position they land. How else can you explain Matteo on the left wing.

Souness needs to stand up and be counted, he can't keep blaming everyone else for the teams failures. Its a time to play players in their natural position and fight for the points. We need to get something out of our next 3 games otherwise I can see him teetering on the brink, I'm sure JW won't be scared to sack him if he feels it necessary.

If Souness can't turn it around we need to turn to an experienced Premiership manager to work with the squad of players we have (transfer window will be closed so no new players can come in), the ideal replacement would be Strachan although George Graham might be able to steady the ship.

[SamDingle]

It's my strongly held belief that 'Souey' should be given more time.

Lots more, ideally.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Whops soreeee mr eddie person but I thought this was a MB for open discussion.

Think you'll find what is becoming boring is Mr Souness spouting his crap excuses  and the gullibles eg YOU  believing everything is rosy - which is what annoys us supporters that are actually concerned about what is happening at the club - and I don't just mean of the pitch. We are not blind to our observations

At least us 'boring people' that you state are giving crede and explaining our worries with reasonable explanations primarily before they happen and being proved correct.

I for one am not looking to trip Souness up - just wish he would take stock about what he is saying and to change the record and stop his stupid formations that are  making him look like he is a protogee of professor sven yaffle.

None of it is good for the club - I'll admit us being negative does not help but I'd rather express our concerns and hope somebody takes notice (Mr S) than keep stum and things carry on for the worse.

That's the whole point though Capt. The vast majority on this message board can see when something isn't right or isn't working. We will all disagree on how severe the situation is and how to fix but as you rightly say that's what the MB is for.

However what annoys 'us' supporters who get a tad annoyed with the doom and gloom at times is the way you dismiss all the opinions as not seeing or not wanting to see what you and your select band have had sussed for a while now.

I have many concerns about our Graeme, some I've posted on here and some I haven't but you just ignore that as it doesn't fit in with your argument. Eddie has just made some great comments which seem fairly balanced to me but they probably will be ignored also.

I personally wouldn't respond to you saying 'stop being so bloody negative' mainly because you're as entitled to your opnion as I am. However when you say you're not trying to trip Mr Souness it doesn't really tally with what you post at times.

The main thing that bugs me is that anything Souness says is disected and picked on and held up against past comments. If you did that with me or most others you would occasionally spot contradictions and innaccuracies but we aren't a debating society on here it's a board for the discussing our team.

I don't think you should have to hide your opnions by any means but some of the stuff posted at times just smacks of people looking for any opportunity to pick fault. Now that to me doesn't seem very balanced at all which is the very thing that us 'gullibles' are accused of.

Sorry for the rant but i've got that off my chest now so it's just for me to ready myself to cheer us on to much needed points, with my blue & white blinkers on of course

Commendable post MB and I take on board what you are saying and is much better when views are expressed in this matter whether we agree or disagree, unlike Eddies just shut up and go away one liners.

I respect your viewpoint, but I feel maybe I am not expressing myself very clearly or something is being missed in my comments.

My concern is not just what is happening on the pitch - but the affect it is also having off it. To me its not just a case that we are only 2 games into the season - but a carry on from last with 'carry on' being the operative manner. With whats going on I the moment I honestly expect to see Barbara Windsor lining up for us on Wednesday (Souness -'this Windsor player is a big player up front but I have not seen him/play yet but its just what we need ' )

Souness has said that we cannot compete with crowds of circa 22k - he is not doing much to help matters though.

Despite my negatism away from the ground, you'll find me amongst the most vocal when we play (Bobf can vouch as he now has to wear ear muffs - says its because of me but I think it has somethiing to do with his ears - but don't tell him).

Haven't seen anything of Saturday's game so I will refrain from commenting, but somebody mentioned earlier on this thread re the interview with Ferguson and the concentration in training now being on defending - I'll let you think about that one.

Last before I go - do you not find it worrying that the very things being mentioned by myself and others are now being questioned by other sectors and personnel?

[bob fleming]

Despite my negatism away from the ground, you'll find me amongst the most vocal when we play (Bobf can vouch as he now has to wear ear muffs - says its because of me but I think it has somethiing to do with his ears - but don't tell him).

Yep. With his arm bands and my ear muffs we look really good.

Just like to point out that Capt really is a big gob sh.... sorry, is really vocal and noisy in his support on match days. I'm not joking. He often get's the entire Blackburn End singing, but fortunately they are more in tune. Not a big deal I hear you cry. Well maybe not. Ultimately I just need to point out that Kayos does support the team, probably more vocally than most, when it actually matters.

It doesn't matter what he says on here, it doesn't matter if it's "negative" thinking, it doesn't matter if he spouts "doom and gloom", what does matter is that on a match day he sings his heart out in support of our team.

We do need to remember that we're actually on the same side in these troubled times (cue dramatic music). Anyway it's not just Kayos who is thinking this way is it? If anyone thinks that it's all rosy in the garden then good for you - I wish I did. To be honest the Capt is merely echoing the thoughts of the majority of Rovers fans I speak to.

Besides, if SamDingle thinks Souness is doing a good job you know darned well that all is not well.

(Now then Capt if I could just have that £20 back that I leant you in 1997)