[Archived] What Is Souness Doing With The Midfield?

[roversmum]

Great post American,

When we win with 4 central midfielders,no one complains and Souness is a genius for lining up four of the same to close down opposition.But today in a match where we were the better team for quite long periods,but lost over the most blatant of mistakes from the referee and two other poor defensive mistakes,it was bad.

Absolutely. Roversactive just made the very same point to me a few minutes ago.

It doesn't count though. For heaven's sale, it's the second game of the season. We should have 42 points and be at the top of the table, don't you understand that?

Souness (or somebody) out

[vindaloobob]

What do I hate about Souness??

I despise his ploy of selling off the family jewels from the club and buying rubbish to replace them;

I despise his attitude towards patently talented players who don't bow to his every wish. Most bosses in any walk of life strive to create harmony within their teams, not disharmony. He seems to enjoy making people hate him

I despise the fact that in spite of his having bought all of the playersin the squad and having lots of preseason games to try them out in he still has not the slightest clue about who should/can play where.

I used to joke that Ray Harford just stuck all the players name in a bag and played them in the positions he drew them out in. I now think that compared to this joker, Harford was actually quite positionally astute!

That's not to mention the tactics. Do we have any? No evidence so far this season or for large chunks of last season.

I also despise his manner in interviews "lady luck" "officials" - get a grip- if he put out the right team trained correctly and using the right tactics, we'd win.

let's take it point by point

1 - he didn't have much of a choice with duff, i think most people backed his sale of dunn at the time, i'm not sure what the deal is with cole, tho there were enough people on here who were happy to say he was rubbish.

2 - boss' management style always varies, as you can see from the people we've had at rovers over the past few years. sometimes souness may be over-hard, but look at where the softly softly approach got us.

3 - i think he has a clue, he may be a long way off being a good tactician but i think he's better than you think. it's all very well saying "you should know your best 11" but football now is a squad game, and the team you put out isn't necessarily your best 11, it's the best 11 to take on the other team, to exploit any weakness and to cope with any strengths. it's for teams like arsenal to put out an 11 and say "so try to beat us", we're not good enough to be able to do that. today he set his stall out to pack the midfield and it was working, until a player error cost us a goal.

4 - yes, because harford won us lots of things didn't he

5 - see point 3 and also note that after player error that cost us goal, tactics were changed which got us two goals. their 2nd was poor defending (more player errors) followed by a superb shot. their 3rd was a gift from the referee.

6 - normally i would agree, you make your own luck, but today i thought that the ref was definately against us.

[FourLaneBlue]

There was a discussion on another thread comparing the record of Dalglish to Souness. It's slightly unfair on Souness as Dalglish walked out after three and a half seasons with his reputation intact. If Souness had 'done a Dalglish' after three and a half years with the club he'd have been in the same kind of exalted company as the mumbling Championship-winning Glaswegian. After three and a half years at Ewood Souness had brought promotion, a cup win, two European qualifications and a sixth place finish to the club. An excellent achievement it has said, particularly after the last days of Hodgson and all of Kidd's time at the club, not to mention Tony Parkes's one-caretaker-manager-stint-too-far period.

That was in 2003 though, the success he then achieved has since been balanced by last season. Let's be honest - we survived easily but we were awful, at home at least. In fact the home form was so atrocious that we actually attained four points less at home last year than we did in the 1998/99 relegation season. Worse than that, at times the style of play was also pretty dismal to watch.

Last season we could always give Souness the benefit of the doubt because of what he achieved early on. The goodwill has run out though and he needs to start delivering again and show us just why he is being paid such a lucrative contract. It's his job to improve on last season. I'll be very happy if he manages to improve the performances and the results but the fact is I'm a Rovers fan first and foremost not a Souness fan. If he has taken the club as far as he can he has to go. Two games is far too early in the season but certainly with a third of the season he has to be judged on where the side is then. Souness out? Nope, not yet...hopefully we'll be in a safe position by then. Hopefully Greame will also have decided on his best side.

The only real problem is the lack of any suitable replacements at the moment. Gordon Strachan has been mentioned but I can't see why he'd leave Southampton of his own free will to spend time relaxing with his family and doing some easy TV work to move up north to a provincial mill town which gets lower crowds and seems to have less transfer money than the club he walked away from.

[Philly Rover ®]

He used a formation for the first half that worked well away from home at the end of last season. We got down at the half, so he changed tactics because we were now playing catch up.

Funny how no one was criticizing playing 4 central midfielders after the Fulham match last season.

A good point, and it does show how some people simply can't put things into perspective.

Just to play devil's advocate though... I must point out that the club were in dire straits at that point last year, with injuries having taken a severe toll. Today Souness had virtually a full squad to choose from and came up with that unorthodox formation. Not saying that it couldn't have worked... just pointing out that it didn't.

[Flopsy]

Re. Selling the Crown Jewels

1)Duff - £17 million - if he didnt want to go, he would have said - he went end of story.

2)Dunn - let the fame go to his head - was unfit for the majority of the season - Is now at Birmingham for £5.5 million. And has played about 10 games so far. The fans at Brum think hes fat, overweight, a showboater and more interested in going out on the ###### than playing football for them. Was seen out on the lash the night before a derby with villa (in his defence he was on water and went at 12)

3) Martin Taylor -

[Dr Rich]

Souness is getting more and more frustrating with each passing minute. He seems to have lost all conviction in his footballing beliefs and is now experimenting like a mad scientist.

There was nothing wrong with playing what someone termed 'four central midfielders' at the end of last year. Jon Douglas isn't a central midfielder he's a right-back, or right-midfielder, who's also versatile enough to play in most positions on the park, but don't let that get in the way of a flawed argument. I have no idea what position Andresen was meant to be playing, but he did a decent enough job for us. We also had so many players out injured that there wasn't much of an alternative.

We come to yesterday's game. Flitcroft at right-midfield!? Matteo at left midfield!? What is that!? Complete and utter madness, it's obvious to a blind Stanley Ternent on a galloping horse that they were never going to perform in those positions, especially Flitcroft, he's gone, past it, get rid of him now.

Tugay and Ferguson were playing in perfectly acceptable positions and I thought they both performed well. Tugay seemed to be more like his old self, how long it will last is questionable though, and Barry further enhanced his growing reputation, even if he did get sent-off, sort of.

There is no problem with playing four central midfielders, there is a problem with playing those four central midfielders.

Why did we have a right-midfielder playing at right-back? Especially a right-midfielder who is in nothing resembling form at the moment?

Why was all this going on when we had a right-back and two left-midfielders on the bench?

Where is Gallagher? Does Souness not rate him anymore? He shouldn't play in midfield, but he's got to be a better option than Dwight Yorke up front. Why is Dwight at this football club never mind on the pitch? He's not good enough, simple as.

Why are we making mass substitutions at half-time in every game? Especially when those substitutions only change the team to that which should have started the game, well in as much as possible. Simple, Souness doesn't know what he's doing, what the best formation for the team is, or who his starting eleven should be.

Why did Gresko come on for Gray and play at left-back at the end of the game? It makes no sense, is De Pedro that bad, and if he is why was he taking a space on the bench?

Duff did say he didn't want to go as he was perfectly happy at Blackburn, well at least until we gave him the opportunity to see Chelsea's set-up.

If there was a quality manager available, I'd be calling for Souness' head right now, but I can't think of one aside from Gordon Strachan, and I have my doubts about whether he would come to Rovers. So in the absence of any viable alternative, the only thing we can do is persevere with Souness' madness and hope whoever's putting the loopy juice into his water is caught soon.

[den]

Why are we making mass substitutions at half-time in every game? Especially when those substitutions only change the team to that which should have started the game, well in as much as possible. Simple, Souness doesn't know what he's doing, what the best formation for the team is, or who his starting eleven should be.

This is the worrying part Rich. He has a full squad [virtually], but hasn't got the confidence to pick his best starting eleven and stick with it.

If he hasn't got that confidence at this stage of the season, I can only presume this is way it will continue. I don't see any reason why things will change, it was chop and change all the way last year.

That's not fair on anyone, including the players.

[American]

I thought Flitty played right midfield vs. Fulham last season...

[rover6]

I thought Flitty played right midfield vs. Fulham last season...

And Andresen played central midfield - want him back?

[Shevchenko]

Yes but he played right midfield yesterday and was rubbish.

So your point is?

[1864roverite]

lets hope he had the entire midfield set up watching the way Arsenal played today and hpoing that between themselves and the coaching staff they have worked out some sort of plan of how to diffuse the Arsenal way of fast attacking football before they swamp our non existant defence

[American]

Yes but he played right midfield yesterday and was rubbish.

So your point is?

My point is that it has worked in the past, so it isn't a dumb move to play him there again. Oh, wait, I forgot, Souness is supposed to have a crystal ball and know that he was going to be rubbish yesterday, just like he wasn't before.

[Jan]

lets hope he had the entire midfield set up watching the way Arsenal played today and hpoing that between themselves and the coaching staff they have worked out some sort of plan of how to diffuse the Arsenal way of fast attacking football before they swamp our non existant defence

Dear god, if he showed our losers THAT they'll all call in sick on Wednesday!!

My point is that it has worked in the past, so it isn't a dumb move to play him there again. Oh, wait, I forgot, Souness is supposed to have a crystal ball and know that he was going to be rubbish yesterday, just like he wasn't before.

Surely he watches them in training and knows how well they're playing??

Edited August 22, 2004 by Jan

[RoyRover]

We have a very good midfield, but this idea that Souness has of making us harder to beat is a good one, but if our midfield is so negative, we aren't going to win many games. We saw what a difference it made when Emerton was put on the right wing and players were played in something resembling their proper position. The fact that Souness was so negative against WBA still grates me.

[American]

And you know Flitcroft was playing poorly in training how?

[Jan]

American, I don't, but I cannot believe that every Rovers player is magnificent playing out of position in training and suddenly is as awful as they are in a match.

[The Harwood Yankee]

Like many on here I genuinely like Graeme Souness for his commitment and passion - I really do believe that he has a passion for Rovers. However, for the first time since he joined us I have to seriously question whether he remains the right man for the job. I think he has simply run out of chances and excuses.

Firstly, his starting line-ups are a joke. He has players back from injury and new signings yet he still fields people out of position and makes eccentric choices which have to be rectified with half-time substitutions with us losing and chasing the game.

Secondly, he falls out with too many players. Cole looks destined to have a good season with Fulham and even showed promise for us, but the position between the two of them was 'untenable'. The other 'baby' is now turning in decent performances for us presumably to earn a move away from Souness. Add to that Todd, Gillespie, Dunn, Berg, etc.... Souness needs to grow up. Hacking your own players down in training is not really conducive to good team spirit.

Thirdly, his excuses for losing - lady luck, referees, blaming individuals - is all a smokescreen for the fact that our manager simply isnt good enough tactically.

Admittedly, he has attracted some good players to the club. But how many of them have realised their full potential under him?

This season Souness has pitted himself against the managerial might and resources of Gary Megson and Paul Sturrock, giving away 2 home points to the former & all 3 points to the latter. We've now got Arsenal & Man Utd to face.

Rovers need every advantage they can muster to survive in this division. I think we've got a very good board, a decent academy, and a manager who has had a lot of chances in the last season. If we are still playing like this by Christmas and Souness remains, we are relegated.

[Hughesy]

Just got back from 2 weeks away in malia.

On my return I cannot believe we are trying to sign another midfield player.

Why? How many midfielders do we want. We need a striker not a midfield player.

The problems are obvious.

Nissa is not good enough - Put Matteo in Centre Defence.

The midfield is un-balanced. Play 2 wingers and 2 centre midfielders.

I for 1 however believe we will be fine and give it a few more games before we start to worry.

[nolan9]

The problems are obvious.

Your right they are obvious. You can see it, I can see it. Souness cant see it.

[AJConroy]

The thing that bothers me is that I have no idea what team we are going to play tomorrow against the Arsenal.

Souness' selections this season seem so haphazard, and coupled in the last two games with major substitutions it suggests this season at least, he doesnt have a preferred team or even the basis of one.

I am not for sacking Souness. He's done much for us. Further, I thought we did ok in the both games in the second half.

At my most generous, I accept we all have 'bad days or weeks at the office' and maybe that what the Scot is going through.

But I'd like to see the beginnings of learning from what we've seen this season. [i didnt see any pre-season but have seen both games so far]. I'd like to see a little more continuity, especially in midfield.

[Hughesy]

I wouldn’t be surprised if these different selections he has used in the 2 opening games are not just a test to see what his best team would be for the next 3 games. And also to put a smoke screen over our team so the big 3 teams we are about to meet wont know what to expect from us.

Arsenal wont have a clue what team to expect to face and im sure Souey is well aware of that

[Flopsy]

as if Arsenal will care

[bob fleming]

Come on Hughesy. I doubt Arsene is going to be at all worried about which team or formation we put out. Why should he be? They've been doing rather well I heard.

Edited August 24, 2004 by bob fleming

[Cheshireblue]

I wouldn’t be surprised if these different selections he has used in the 2 opening games are not just a test to see what his best team would be for the next 3 games. And also to put a smoke screen over our team so the big 3 teams we are about to meet wont know what to expect from us.

Arsenal wont have a clue what team to expect to face and im sure Souey is well aware of that

So we blow 5 points against eminently beatable sides, just so that we can confuse Arsenal, who nobody has beaten for over 12 months?

If I give you money, will you go on holiday again?

[Flopsy]

jinx