[Archived] Souness

[rover6]

I won't miss his tactics, or fall-outs, excuses, transfer blunders but a little bit of me will pine for THOSE quotes...

Here's a flavour from the wordsmith

[Ianrally]

With Souey gone it will be interesting to see when we get our first penalty and when the Magpies next get one!!

As far as I am concerned the initial feeling was one of shock. he did a good job for a time but recently he has lost the plot and I think it was a matter of time before he was pushed.

Great business on the part of Rovers to allow him to speak to Newcastle and we get compensation plus a new face that might just re-vitalise the players and allow some of the fringe players to get another look in like Jansen and Todd.

Just as an aside, I spoke to a Magpie mate last night and his biggest gripe on Robson, was that he was tactically unaware and constantly played players out of position. GS should fit in quite well then.

Edited September 7, 2004 by Ianrally

[Ninjathunder]

Having had a day and a half to reflect on this, my thoughts are:

1. Very surprised that Newcastle United considered Souness as the man they needed to take the club forward, given his record over the last season, with baffling team selections and tactics. My shock at him leaving, on reflection, is based upon this.

2. If a club of Newcastle's stature came in, I really can't blame him for leaving, given a distictly underwhelming last season and the opening to this season. He can't believe his luck!!!! Newcastle can provide the next step up for him to prove if he's got what it takes to manage a potential Champs League regular.

3. As in point 1, I don't think he will be able to achieve much other than a cup (which I'm sure they would welcome with open arms).

4. We've come out of this rather well, avoiding what I believe would have been a sacking and a compensation package. Crunch time was coming, one way or another.

5. Thanks for three great seasons of achievement, passion and fun. Now watch us turn over your new employers on Saturday!

[Kennysuperbuyer]

Better put plans in for a dressing room extension for all the crap players he will be buying.

Our new manager will want to see the squad he has assembled so Williams has booked King Georges Hall.

[frosty]

In the Newsagents up the road, there are newspaper boards saying ' Souness quits ' and then the shop owner has put words like ' praise the lord ' and stuff like that on.

Obviously he isn't a fan of souness's then. Come to think of it, neither am I!

[vindaloobob]

i liked souness for his no-nonsense style, his post-match interviews, and for how well he managed to get us out of our division 1 malaise and win the worthy cup. however it seems that there's only so far he can take players (eg dunn) and the club, his man management skills seem to be very 1-dimensional, which will only work for some of the people some of the time, and when things aren't going his way he seems to lack the knowledge to turn things round. he managed it last season, but only just. i think the indicator that this season was going to be no better came with the way he started the first two matches. to me that seemed to label the club's ambition as relegation dogfighters, when myself and the majority of fans demand more, especially given the 6th place finish in 2003.

i actually feel a lot more optimistic about the season ahead now, i just hope that we can get a decent manager and not lapse into another pre-souness style slump.

[blue/white]

I just heard the news this morning around 2 am... and promptly had a sleepless night wondering of the ramifications. I too, broke into a sweat over the possibility of conducting a manager search until such inauspicious

circumstances.

But after the initial cold sweat dissipitated, thoughts of Hughesy standing at our touchline came into my mind and things seemed better already. I'm sure my words arent' anything new over what's been written in many pages of this and other threads, but I had been away from the computer & other media-so the appointment caught me completely unawares...

but really, a change at the top had to be addressed by Xmas... and as fortune should have it, without the compensation (sackiing) package or a further funk that could damage our premiership status & a tidy compo package from Fat Fred to boot... (anyone have an idea how many ducats??)

Let's hope that in Souey's departure, our old, missing friend 'Lady Luck' will make a reappearance at Ewood.

[Ronin]

When I'd heard that he'd gone to NUFC, I was a bit surprised. Thought it'd be Bruce, O'leary, anyone but Souey. But as with some of the post, I think that he'd run his course at the club. Rovers letting them talk to Souey, probably shows that he was close to a sacking. With Parkes in charge, at least he should hold the fort until we get our man. Be interesting to see the names the media put forward as candidates, and who we finally get.

Out of the doldrums at last?!

[Exiled in Toronto]

Despite having been anti-Souness for the last few months in terms of looking forwards, one cannot fail to be happy with the overall progress made under him, even despite the backsliding in the last 15 months.

He made us respectable again, and left while a lot of that progress was still intact.

But I'm still glad that he's gone as I really did think that he wasn't going to turn it around.

[John]

Dont know if anyone mentioned this so far, but here is a link to an insight on what went on behind the scenes. Some of this may be lies but there must be some truth in it.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/sporttop/tm_...-name_page.html

[rover6]

Taken from the pompey v rovers preview thread:

First of all, you're wrong.

McClaren and Gregory took teams who were mid to upper table Premiership clubs. Reid I'm not sure about.

Souness took a club in freefall, and took us to heights unimaginable.

The funny thing is, Newcastle and Southampton apart, where he was given little over a year, Souness has won trophies at every club he's managed. Say what you like, but you can't argue with that CV.

One final point to emphasise your incorrectness, the other managers have won one trophy between them.

Peter Reid saved a free-falling Sunderland from relegation to the old Div 2. The next season they won the league in spectacular style and were promoted to the Premiership. In the Prem, he helped them to TWO seventh placed finishes before everything crashed and burnt. Apart from a league cup win, that record stands as good as, if not better than Souness'. And I don't really think you can hail Souey's league cup win as a great, decisive achievement considering the relatively easy path we had and the fact that a number of mediocre sides have won it or at least got to the finals.

I accept that Steve McClaren took over a secure Boro side but still, his achievement of winning the League Cup, taking Boro to 7th in the league, FA Cup semis twice, UEFA Cup FINAL! put his achievements alongside that of SOuness at Rovers. He is, no doubt, the most successful Boro manager in recent history.

If you look at Souness' record objectively and compare it with other supposedly bad or discredited managers, you see that his achievements are not vastly superior. His success at Rovers is comparable to that of Peter Reid and no-one rates Reid as a decent manager, not even SUnderland fans, although no doubt that respect some of his achievements. Sam Allardyce's achievement with Bolton, where he had neither the money nor the inheritance of a set of superb young players (Duff, Dunn and Jansen), clearly outshines Souness' record.

The fact is Souness was crucial to rescuing us from the doldrums and he did some good things for us. A little like how Jon Stead rescued us with his goals from relegation. However, I would neither call Souness or Stead a good Premier League manager or player. The circumstances were appropriate for them to shine but the exigency passed and so did their suitability.

I appreciate what he did for us. As I appreciate that Brian Kidd signed Matt Jansen for us. As I appreciate Roy Hodgson taking us into Europe. As I appreciate Lorenzo AMoruso for helping us stay up. However, in judging Souness, I am trying to be objective and ignoring any emotive feelings. Thus, I am trying to ignore the fact I support Rovers and the manner in which he left us.

Edited April 25, 2008 by rover6

[S15]

The difference is the other managers have only been successful at one club.

Souness has won domestic honours with Liverpool, Benfica, Galatasaray and Blackburn. He also got Torino to a Serie B playoff final which they lost on penalties. Only at Southampton and Newcastle, where he was given just under 2 years between them, has he failed to deliver such results.

That is incomparable to the other managers, and TBH with alot of other managers. Every decent/good/great manager has attributes others don't. I wouldn't disagree with you that Souness has some flaws which stop him being anything more than a good manager, but one thing he is is an absolute winner.

At that, one way or another is what he usually does.

[tcj_jones]

I'd love to see Souness take over at Fulham and bring them back up to the Premier League. I'm still really fond of Souness and I have a bit of a soft spot for Fulham because it's my favourite away day of the season.

Come on Al Fayed, make it happen!

[Hasta]

Souness did well for us. Thinking back who else could we have got at that time who would have got us up in 16 months and then gone on to win a trophy. He gets abuse because of how we were when he left but if, god forbid, we were bottom of the league at next Christmas the same fickle people would be on here saying the same about Hughes. They'd be forgetting about the last few years.

Ask yourself this.

From when he arrived was Souness good for Blackburn Rovers ..... yes

Did he leave at the right time for both parties ....... yes

So why does he get the comments he does?

[Alan75]

Souness did well for us. Thinking back who else could we have got at that time who would have got us up in 16 months and then gone on to win a trophy. He gets abuse because of how we were when he left but if, god forbid, we were bottom of the league at next Christmas the same fickle people would be on here saying the same about Hughes. They'd be forgetting about the last few years.

Ask yourself this.

From when he arrived was Souness good for Blackburn Rovers ..... yes

Did he leave at the right time for both parties ....... yes

So why does he get the comments he does?

Same reaction as when someone split from their girlfriend, now what was that saying of Souness's about size of willie

[rover6]

The difference is the other managers have only been successful at one club.

Souness has won domestic honours with Liverpool, Benfica, Galatasaray and Blackburn. He also got Torino to a Serie B playoff final which they lost on penalties. Only at Southampton and Newcastle, where he was given just under 2 years between them, has he failed to deliver such results.

That is incomparable to the other managers, and TBH with alot of other managers. Every decent/good/great manager has attributes others don't. I wouldn't disagree with you that Souness has some flaws which stop him being anything more than a good manager, but one thing he is is an absolute winner.

At that, one way or another is what he usually does.

That's true enough. However, for the silverware Souey won at Liverpool, he failed there. Liverpool fans do not rate him at all - an understatement.

I have to admit that my argument against Souey has a large lacuna in that I do not know the details of his achievements/failures abroad. To get a comprehensive understanding of his record, this is kind of crucial - and not just a list of achievements but an understanding of how he went about the job, the circumstances and how he was rated by the fans.

But I've got to say, Benfica and Galatasaray - even Rangers - are massive oligopolists in their respective countries, with a stranglehold on finances and fans. To win a few trophies at these clubs is usually par for the course. If I'm not mistaken, Souey left Benfica and Gala having not met the expectations of the clubs. Whether those expectations were overambitious (as Souness claims) I do not know.

One thing that I must say is - I do not know how a manager who admits to not having much by the way of tactical knowledge can succeed on the continent. They are mad on tactics there. (Just to add, Souness European travels as a manager were aided, no doubt, by his reputation as a great player - many managers don't have this benefit despite being fully qualified for jobs abroad (nor the benefit of being best pals with a "superagent").

Edited April 26, 2008 by rover6

[ABBEY]

how many trophies have you won rover6?and dont count CM.

[DP]

Whilst I don't think Shilito's argument stacks up, I think you're missing the general point here Rover6.

When Souness took over Rovers none of us were sure what to expect and I think the majority were a little concerned about the appointment. After the first couple of months it became clear we had a new type of Souness, a calmer, more laid back approach for a start. It seemed we had a man who had learned from his managerial mistakes. He gave everyone at the club a chance, quickly recognised who had the talent and who didn't regardless of transfer fees and egos.

The following season they way he managed the club from kicking out the dead wood and bringing in new players to the weekly task of picking the team, formations and tactics was nothing short of faultless. Let's not forget the number of games he left Jansen on the bench to give him a "kick up the arse" as he put it. Or the way he ruthlessly axed John Filan and replaced him with premier league "flop" Brad Friedel. Berkovic allowed us to switch formation to 5 across the middle and for me the signing of Bent (who scored the most vital goals in the big games) was the icing on the cake.

Regardless of the years to follow, at the end of the season we had not only a new squad which was good enough to gain promotion to the premierleague, but we had a spine of a team that would be able to compete in it.

Mistakes followed (anyone fancy an Italian?) and sometime in the 2002/3 season there were signs of the old Souness returning, but that's why football is a series of chapters, all of which have an ending.

For me, that promotion season was one of the most enjoyable years in the 20+ years I've been following Rovers. And as Souness was the man at the healm, I won't say a bad word about the guy.

And I think that's the feeling of most Rovers fans who were there and experienced it, and that's something you don't understand.

[S15]

Whilst I don't think Shilito's argument stacks up, I think you're missing the general point here Rover6.

What's my argument?

[Sandiway Blue]

For me the only way you can judge a manager,is to look at where the club is when he starts,and where the club is when he finishes.Undoubtedly Souey was one of our best managers of the modern era,he left us in a better position than he found us,won the league cup and also treated us to a very nice derby double over our 6 fingered neighbours.

Anybody who seriously loves Rovers shouldn`t really slate the guy.He joined us at exactly the right time, and he also left at exactly the right time.

[ABBEY]

and also treated us to a very nice derby double over our 6 fingered neighbours.

Anybody who seriously loves Rovers shouldn`t really slate the guy.He joined us at exactly the right time, and he also left at exactly the right time.

oh yes..................just like tony finnegan ewood legend...makateeeer ewood legend........and all rovers players manegement staff etc who have had anything to do with beating the scumbags at any time

[American]

For me the only way you can judge a manager,is to look at where the club is when he starts,and where the club is when he finishes.Undoubtedly Souey was one of our best managers of the modern era,he left us in a better position than he found us,won the league cup and also treated us to a very nice derby double over our 6 fingered neighbours.

Anybody who seriously loves Rovers shouldn`t really slate the guy.He joined us at exactly the right time, and he also left at exactly the right time.

Probably left about 6 months too late, but other than that, it's hard to argue with this post.

[Mc Love]

At best I think Souness is a good Championship manager, same as Mick McCarthy

[ABBEY]

OH !!!

so all the euro qualifying did doesnt make him better than a championship manager plus all his silverware both as a player and manager....the mind boggles

[Mc Love]

Thats all is, if you cant see that you should visit specsavers mate!! We would have been relegated again, had he not left and the constant blaming of Lady luck did my head in. Twasnt anything to do with lady luck, it was your tactics Souuey!

But he did get us promoted from the championship(hint) and oh we won the League cup but hey so did Spurs this season who were below us.