Blackburn Hooligans Joke!

[TrimmTrab]

Would you care to share the full reports on here so we can make an informed decision/comment?

Or do we have to put up with your's and others versions of events?

After all how can we say whether it's a joke or not?

yes of course,i'll post them all up,after all it's only being used as "evidence" in forthcoming court cases

[SouthAussieRover]

Would you care to share the full reports on here so we can make an informed decision/comment?

Or do we have to put up with your's and others versions of events?

After all how can we say whether it's a joke or not?

yes of course,i'll post them all up,after all it's only being used as "evidence" in forthcoming court cases

Good on you.

Then maybe we can all agree with you so that you can sleep easily.

After all that's what you want isn't it.?

As I've said before tell someone who cares

[TrimmTrab]

Good on you.

Then maybe we can all agree with you so that you can sleep easily.

After all that's what you want isn't it.?

As I've said before tell someone who cares

a lot of replies on this subject for someone who doesn't care

i sleep ok thanks,it's of no consequence to me if these people are banned or not,i was just putting forward my opinion of what i have seen of the "evidence".

[Linny8]

Your veiws could be seen as discriminating to people who like to wear a certain type of clothing South Aussie rover.  Just because people like to dress up in clothes which they feel decent in means that they are gonna kick the feck out of opposition fans?  I think not.  This is the only type of evidence that is cropping up on this post and to me that sounds pathetic!  Maybe this example is a bit extreme but do you view all muslims as terrorists just because there is a minority who want to destroy the world?

Beg pardon but where did I mention clothing Linny?

I was referring to the fact that you have no evidence condeming these lads so therefore i assumed this is how you judge them to be hooligans. Maybe you could correct me and tell me why you believe that these lads have been involved in violence.

[Morph]

Your veiws could be seen as discriminating to people who like to wear a certain type of clothing South Aussie rover.

What would you call that sort of discrimination? Burberryism? FakeArmaniPhobia? If so let me be the first to admit to this new and exciting prejudice; we must put an end to cheap gold chains and sovereign rings this instant. If not for us, then for the sake of generations to come!

[BRFCC]

Have you really?

I doubt it.

Phone 131114

thats where we differ though,i have seen the video which has been issued to all the people that are charged with the banning orders,wheras you don't know any facts behind the case as a whole or any of the individual cases.

the "incidents" that i mention are in the video,100% fact.

i've also read several of the individual reports that have been given to the people involved,which is basically more of the same which is in the video ie. nothing.

i tend not to give views on subjects that i don't know any of the facts behind,maybe others would do well to do the same.

That is true abouth the video, i have seen it. South Aussie rover should not be calling people liars unless he has the evidence to back it up.

[Linny8]

So what your saying morph is that if you see someone wearing a stone island jumper you instantly don't like them just because not everyone has your gift of spotting great fashion?

[MCMC1875]

You can buy fashion but ya can't buy style.

[BRFCC]

A question for South Aussie Rover. How many times have you visited Ewood in the last couple of seasons?.

[trueblue]

Good on you.

Then maybe we can all agree with you so that you can sleep easily.

After all that's what you want isn't it.?

As I've said before tell someone who cares

a lot of replies on this subject for someone who doesn't care

i sleep ok thanks,it's of no consequence to me if these people are banned or not,i was just putting forward my opinion of what i have seen of the "evidence".

How come you get to see the evidence TrimmTrab?

Edited September 26, 2004 by trueblue

[SouthAussieRover]

A question for South Aussie Rover. How many times have you visited Ewood in the last couple of seasons?.

I haven't recently but Ive seen a few videos of it.

[Morph]

So what your saying morph is that if you see someone wearing a stone island jumper you instantly don't like them just because not everyone has your gift of spotting great fashion? 

No of course not Linny8. It is possible to have utter disdain for someones taste in clothing without feeling one way or the other about the person actually wearing the clothes; just consider dungarees. Casual fasion may appeal to you, it doesn't to me; fair enough, so what? None of the above has anything to do with the 17 in question, it simply reflects a difference in aesthetic sensibilities. If these people have been involved in hooliganism they should be judged on the evidence at hand; if it the evidence against any particular individual is sufficient to merit a banning order then so be it, if not then one ought not to be given. It's not a question of fashion, it's a question of conduct, and to suggest otherwise detracts from the debate.

[EDIT] You did realise my original post was somewhat tongue in cheek didn't you?

Edited September 27, 2004 by Morph

[Linny8]

So what your saying morph is that if you see someone wearing a stone island jumper you instantly don't like them just because not everyone has your gift of spotting great fashion? 

No of course not Linny8. It is possible to have utter disdain for someones taste in clothing without feeling one way or the other about the person actually wearing the clothes; just consider dungarees. Casual fasion may appeal to you, it doesn't to me; fair enough, so what? None of the above has anything to do with the 17 in question, it simply reflects a difference in aesthetic sensibilities. If these people have been involved in hooliganism they should be judged on the evidence at hand; if it the evidence against any particular individual is sufficient to merit a banning order then so be it, if not then one ought not to be given. It's not a question of fashion, it's a question of conduct, and to suggest otherwise detracts from the debate.

[EDIT] You did realise my original post was somewhat tongue in cheek didn't you?

I'll agree with that Morph good post!

[CAPT KAYOS]

Good on you.

Then maybe we can all agree with you so that you can sleep easily.

After all that's what you want isn't it.?

As I've said before tell someone who cares

a lot of replies on this subject for someone who doesn't care

i sleep ok thanks,it's of no consequence to me if these people are banned or not,i was just putting forward my opinion of what i have seen of the "evidence".

How come you get to see the evidence TrimmTrab?

Maybe I can answer this True Blue.

As far as I understand, video evidence is available for viewing to the defending solicitors and parties involved but I can't definitely confirm whether this is all the time or for certain instances. I go from experience of what happened at the Sunderland replay the other season( which I mentioned on here) and the arrest of my mate.

Not surprisingly, a video was made available from when he was in police custody but not until the day we had to attend court and not surprisingly the video had no sound (police excuse - it was broken at the time) yet was still submitted as evidence. The purpose for this to show the judge that he was drunk and disorderly ( his defence was was whe was arguing why he had been arrested - he did not withstand arrest yet they tried to say he was swearing incessantly).

The Police will always try and bend the situation with regard to football hooligans

My point here is that I think people are just arguing against each other on here rather than the actual issue at hand. There is fine line here that needs to be addressed as with any other 'hooligan' issue but that's what it is a fine line and 'very' at that as follows: -

1. When should the police react - they need evidence otherwise its pointless but they are pressured into stopping football hooligans so have to be shown to be doing something.

2. Football fans have rights - which the majority of the time are overlooked or totally ignored (herded/videoed etc) but fans just get on with it as part and parcel of the game - in this what I mean is what people are saying on her - innocent until proven guilty - and this prejudice against those that wish` to dress a certain way or drink with people/in the same places is no evidence.

I have mentioned before on similar threads - I am not a football hooligan (mad possibly and known by a many on here) I am have a shaved head ( I don't like my hair) I wear lacoste/ben sherman/addidas samba/ baseball cap/lapel badges etc when I go to the football and can count a thousand times when trouble has evolved when I have been at football in/away from the ground - I have been punched and kicked and had to defend myself - question the attitude and actions of police etc and nearly end up being arrested myself - the question is 'does that make me a hooligan - the answer = NO .

Now what I am trying to say here is that trouble can happen at any time and sometimes you I have no choice but to defend yourself - and regardless of the situation the Police will always try to prove you guilty to something they try to show has happening rather than what has actually happened.

I don't know the full ins and outs ot the situation here or the people involved but it would appear to me that the Police have gone about something in totally the wrong way yet they have a very hard job to do but as always they seem to be going about it the totally wrong way which doesn't endear them to anybody.

For those of you questioning BRFCC and Trimmtrab - most ITK 'hoolies' no the situation with the Police and if they get arrested the majority will to phrase a term say ' fair cop guv'nor' and take their punishment but it will not stop them entirely

BRFCC- you have chosen to ignore certain questions which leads many on here to question your 'total innocence' hence the slight vitirol towards yourselves, and normally the Police do know who the likely ' bodies' are if there is any trouble so your reluctance to answer cannot go without being questioned. However I do side with you on this although I get the feeling you are ITK if you know what I mean.

Personally, from what has been said it would appear to me that the situation here is as said above the Police have gone about it the worng way except there must have been some smoke.

I find it strange that it always happens that people who haven't got a clue what happens in the 'hoolie scene' end up discussing about it but go off what they see in the rags rather than what actually happens.

[BRFCC]

Very good post Capt Kayos. I agree with everything you have said in that post. i have answered all the questions i can but i admit i may have missed some out as i do not come on this site everyday. The Police have just chucked a load of videos together mainly showing suspected hooligans drinking together and that is it. I have a mate that has been in more or less the same situation as yours by the sound of it, drunk and disordely, his evidence tape did not contain sound either nor any images a bit of a coincidence due to the fact he had done nothing more than fall over a kerb. The Banning order case is a total Joke.

[waggy]

i'm suprised this was not in the press,but the case involving the rovers fans ans man utd fans in the postal order has been dealt with this week,sentence's ranged from 90 days week-end jail to fines off £1400 certianly makes you think

[Gav]

i'm suprised this was not in the press,but the case involving the rovers fans ans man utd fans in the postal order has been dealt with this week,sentence's ranged from 90 days week-end jail to fines off £1400 certianly makes you think

Have you got a link Waggy?

[The1mattjansen]

When I followed the mass of burnley hooligans being escorted back to the station the other night, I came across a very small gathering of 'Blackburn Youth', who had been surrounded by the police, stood outside a pub near the new B & Q.

[TrimmTrab]

i'm suprised this was not in the press,but the case involving the rovers fans ans man utd fans in the postal order has been dealt with this week,sentence's ranged from 90 days week-end jail to fines off £1400 certianly makes you think

Have you got a link Waggy?

nothing been in the press,possibility of something after next monday.

6 year ground bans for the custodial sentences,3 year bans for the rest.

the fines and sentences were way over the top for the charge,same offence on a friday night in town and you wouldn't get anywhere near.

hanging,beheading or public stoning i say,thought i'd get that in to save you all the trouble.

[colortone]

nothing been in the press,possibility of something after next monday.

6 year ground bans for the custodial sentences,3 year bans for the rest.

the fines and sentences were way over the top for the charge,same offence on a friday night in town and you wouldn't get anywhere near.

hanging,beheading or public stoning i say,thought i'd get that in to save you all the trouble.

Havent you got something else to be doing instead of lowering the tone on here ?

[TrimmTrab]

nothing been in the press,possibility of something after next monday.

6 year ground bans for the custodial sentences,3 year bans for the rest.

the fines and sentences were way over the top for the charge,same offence on a friday night in town and you wouldn't get anywhere near.

hanging,beheading or public stoning i say,thought i'd get that in to save you all the trouble.

Havent you got something else to be doing instead of lowering the tone on here ?

do i know you?

[OnePost]

i remember BNP literature being handed out outside the old blackburn end, 13-15 years ago.

as far as i know Blackburn Youth were Mill Hill based gang that expired in the late 80's

most proper hooligans don't tend to bother going to the games any more- they jsut meet up and scrap outside, so what good it'll do stopping them getting in i don't know.

Blackburn Youth = mainly Highercroft

Mill Hill Youth = mainly Mill Hill

More like 17-18 years ago. Certainly pre- "Blackburn Raves / Hardcore Uproar" and availability of MDMA.

[Will]

i'm suprised this was not in the press,but the case involving the rovers fans ans man utd fans in the postal order has been dealt with this week,sentence's ranged from 90 days week-end jail to fines off £1400 certianly makes you think

Have you got a link Waggy?

nothing been in the press,possibility of something after next monday.

6 year ground bans for the custodial sentences,3 year bans for the rest.

the fines and sentences were way over the top for the charge,same offence on a friday night in town and you wouldn't get anywhere near.

hanging,beheading or public stoning i say,thought i'd get that in to save you all the trouble.

Sounds like bad news!

[Gav]

i'm suprised this was not in the press,but the case involving the rovers fans ans man utd fans in the postal order has been dealt with this week,sentence's ranged from 90 days week-end jail to fines off £1400 certianly makes you think

Have you got a link Waggy?

nothing been in the press,possibility of something after next monday.

6 year ground bans for the custodial sentences,3 year bans for the rest.

the fines and sentences were way over the top for the charge,same offence on a friday night in town and you wouldn't get anywhere near.

hanging,beheading or public stoning i say,thought i'd get that in to save you all the trouble.

Absolutely pathetic for a pub brawl, but if you participate on a football day you know the implications.

Do the same next Friday and you'll be lucky to even get locked up for the night

[Gav]

I'm sure i've stated previously that i think the banning orders are very harsh indeed, but deserved in a few instances.

But when you look at clubs around the country i can't help but feel enough isn't being done to convict similar 'lads' by the same route the Blackburn lads have been done. Some clubs have a real problem when it comes to hooliganism yet you'll find the same clubs being accused time and time again when the more explosive games come around. Why isn't the same process implemented to ban these repeat offenders? 25 Lads out of average home attendances around 20k isn't a real problem yet 250+ out of 10k is????

The money the club pays the local police is disgusting in my opinion. We have 5 riot vans, several horses and God knows how many foot soldiers to police 25 lads? Ok the police around the ground do a great public service and do not concentrate on hooligans but look after the genuine football fan going to the game but the ones assigned to the hooligans just milk the overtime and trump up not only the charges but the threat posed by these individuals.

A quick story:

I had a first hand account from a police officer of a surveillance operation that took place a few seasons ago. Four Members of the football intelligence unit were assigned to follow an active member of the local hooligan group. One of these officers had been following said lad for sometime away from football and God knows how much that cost the tax payer. Anyway back to the game in question, the officers had booked into a London hotel and then went out in search of the said lad. After many hours of searching, several beers and meals out they decided to turn in for the night. They arrived back at the hotel to find said lad drinking in the bar with his wife! He was only down in the smoke on a shopping trip and never had any intentions of going to the game in question.

How much did such an operation cost the tax payer? and with amateurs like this is it not surprising they have to trump up charges to get banning orders.

I'm definitely prejudice when it comes to policing of football so i'll always see the down side but having been the victim of assault by police officers on several occasions for no reason and witnessed my girlfriend being hit with a baton for no reason also in recent times it leaves a sour taste in the mouth. Walking round Soho with Debs before an England game and being grabbed by two police officers, hit in the stomach and told i'm scum, racist and bang to rights because i'm in the Leicester city baby squad and a cat 'C' hooligan you'll get my point

Football is the only social event you'll get treated like a criminal, pay £25+ for the priviledge and still come back the week after......