[Archived] Charlton Athletic 1 0 Rovers

[chris]

Yorke has scored for Brum, why aren't people saying we miss him?

If you don't know the answer to that then I feel sorry for you

I don't think we miss Yorke, but I think we'd be just as well/poorly off if either of them were still here. Remember, this is a team game. For all Cole has done for Fulham, they have not gotten results with him in the lineup. They have just as much talent in their lineup as we do.

I thought so, but i saw almost the whole of 2 Fulham games, highlights of the others and Cole was very good in both, probably Fulhams best player. Not only his goals but work rate and link up play. Maybe its because he has a new manager.

If you are right that Fulham have the same quality of player then Cole's done extremely well to get 4 goals in 5 games but it also his alround game.

But I agree its a team game just think we miss that quality, I would still like to have Dickov but in the squad coming off the bench as he's done most his career, rather then a starter. It seems a little bit of class seems to be the difference between success and failure in the PL.

Anyway didn't Fulham win 3-0 at Southampton with Cole scoring two goals.

Edited September 28, 2004 by chris

[American]

Actually they won 1-0 at Southampton with Cole not playing. I like Dickov, but I'm with you in I don't think he's the solution at the position, but I don't think Cole was either. My hope is that for now, Gallagher and/or Bothroyd provide the solution as starters, either together or with Stead (assuming Gallagher gets and stays healthy). Then we can take the money we would have spent on Cole's wages and get a good young CM in January. I think Jay, despite that terrible cross he made, could do at least the job that Cole did for us, and hopefully better.

[tcj_jones]

I'm usually at a loss to understand why so many posters have a different opinion of the match after a home game. I've always put it down to us watching from different parts of the ground, getting a different view, seeing things from different angles. How can there be so many contrasting views when we're all watching the same SkyTV pictures? Gray, man of the match? I thought it was his worst game for us. Emerton useless? I thought he was our biggest threat. Neill crap? Go on, I'll give you that one.

Still have a lot of posts to read but had to stop at this one.

I too am amazed at how contrasting peoples views are and on that subject come the matter of Gray...

Worst game for us? The mind boggles. I though his performance was an inspiration to the team. We also have to remember that he excelled in a team that was otherwise woeful one half, and lacking in midfield for most. The guy may well be caught out when the opposition attacks but so do players like Ashley Cole - it's to be expected.

Why was he so good? Simple, we have lacked a left winger for a long, long time and last night we finally looked to have wing play in our game. Emerton's massive improvement this season and Gray's excellent forward runs last night gave us something that has been lacking for god knows how long. What an improvement from last week when his final ball and passing were woeful all match. He continously made decent forward runs, put balls in the box, broke from defence, had the confidence to take people on, won throws and corners in attacking positions and, combined with Emerton, they rallied the spirit of the team and gave us the attacking edge we needed in the second half.

Edited September 28, 2004 by tcj_jones

[tcj_jones]

Saying that, I have read and agree with those commenting on our players lack of quality balls into the box. Emerton and Gray did show good wing play last night but, like i said about Emerton a few pages back, their balls into the box were often too long or way too airy fairy and easily cleared.

Edited September 28, 2004 by tcj_jones

[Scotty]

I too am amazed at how contrasting peoples views are and on that subject come the matter of Gray...

Worst game for us? The mind boggles. I though his performance was an inspiration to the team.

Good grief. Tcj, trust me, Gray was awful. I rate him and normally he's at least good but he wasn't last night. You're just making yourself look silly.

[tcj_jones]

Well I have to disagree. An inspiration to a largely poor team, but still a very good perfromance in my mind. I'd like to know why you thought he was so awful?

[Manchester Blue]

I'd say because he constantly gave the ball away, played himself into trouble and other players into trouble. Poor crosses as well as being out of position a few times but apart from that he was ok.

[tcj_jones]

I'd say because he constantly gave the ball away, played himself into trouble and other players into trouble. Poor crosses as well as being out of position a few times but apart from that he was ok.

The only times I recall Gray playing himself into trouble was in his own half under pressure, not when he was going forward, which is the part of the game that I'm praising so much. Added to that, when he did play himself into trouble, he didn't give the ball away badly.

[chopperhopper]

Evenin lads, at the game last night and have to say the most frustrating factor is the lack of link between mid and attack.

Steady found himself chasing balls fired up the left wing by micky gray most of the first half without having the skill to take it past anyone in that corner. Thats no fault of his own, it should not be his job. MGP should be there in my opinion.

One of the biggest positives out of last night was the intro of jay and toogs. Toogs especially seemed to be that missing link could turn a player and maybe make that decisive ball.

The main thing I do not miss bout souness is his battling attitude, don't get me wrong don't mind the odden such as flitty and short but in recent times our best team was when we had that extra bit of flair duff dunn thommo jansen at his best. This needs to be bought back in, only a few seasons ago we were a team that people wanted to watch, we need that back.

================Friedel=====================

==========================================

==Neil==Amoroso(long term Jay)==Matteo/Short==Gray==

==========================================

=====Emerton====Thommo====Fergy======MGP====

==========================================

=============Gally======Jansen===============

[Manchester Blue]

I'm confused now. Surely it's worse to play yourself into trouble in your own half as it's more risky. The old adage of don't take chances springs to mind.

[nellybc]

the problem is they DO take chances.

The defence let the ball bounce in dangerous situations on numerous occasions.

I know row Z aint pretty, but neither is to keep losing possesion by playing passes to each other when clearing the ball would be a much more easy thing to do.

I know that this then goes back to the old ways of hoofing the ball clear, but at times last night, thats all the full backs did, when midfielders were asking for the ball to be played into them.

[waggy]

sat at home last night and watched the game,thought we tried to play football,and sometimes in the wrong areas.i was not a fan off souness in the last 12 months and made this known,but at the moment hughes is left with a squad which is at best down to the bare bones.

i thought hughesy made one mistake last night the substitution's,stead is our best striker and should be on the pitch for 90 minutes,i would like to see him and gally given a run.

dickov has played very well in all games he has played this season,but for all his running and harrying offers very little threat to the goal.

the only player i cursed last night was gray,i thought his distribution was poor,and he wasted a large percentage of his possesion.

if last night is anything to go by,we are on a par with charlton,who will be a top ten team.we need mark and his staff to instill there footballing believes on our team and from what i saw last night the future is a dam sight brighter than before souness left.

[LeChuck]

I'm confused now. Surely it's worse to play yourself into trouble in your own half as it's more risky. The old adage of don't take chances springs to mind.

You hit the nail on the head yourself...that is an old concept. Any remotely successful team now knows that you have to play your way out from defence, if you just lump it up the opposition will just get the ball back straight away and the defence is under pressure again. Defences now are too good to be beaten by long balls out from the back, it's a tactic that we need to get rid off as soon as possible.

[tcj_jones]

I'm confused now. Surely it's worse to play yourself into trouble in your own half as it's more risky. The old adage of don't take chances springs to mind.

Sorry, what I meant was, although he did play himself into trouble in his own half, which is worse than if he was in the oppositions, it was early in the first half, if I remember correctly, when the whole team was edgy and he did it rarely.

[philipl]

Fascinating contrasts of views on here.

I'll offer this explanation- it was a game we hoped and wanted to do well in to extend Hughes' honeymoon and dispel our fears for of a relegation battle ahead. Charlton are not the most glamorous club around- we feel we should be beating them irrespective of the actual team that might be playing for them. So hope levels were high and expectation not far behind.

The Rovers' performance was mixed. So mixed that everybody on here is right based on what you want to take from it and how you are feeling about life in general and Gray/Emerton/Amo et al in particular!

In case you have all forgotten, the build up which lead to Flitcroft hitting the post includied the most flowing passing move from either side all night- when Charlton got at us for the rest of the half it got very bitty and frustrating.

Second half, one badly defended corner, a goal down was a prelude to a less than elegant but well sustained pressure which although lost its intensisty pretty well continued for most of the half. On corner count and possesson, Rovers dominated the second half.

BUT, every player made big errors with at least one significantly bad pass and there was nowhere near enough cohesion for the Rovers' efforts to be convincing.

So anyone seeing Gray hit a crossfield pass to nobody, Emerton run it into touch, Matteo head it skywards, Amo under hit it back to Brad, Neill marking nobody, Ferguson losing possession etc etc saw all the evidence they needed to say x, y or z had a stinker and the team as a whole are rank bad.

For me they whilst individually there were far too many mistakes, collectively Rovers had passion and determination; qualities which had been in short supply before the Newcastle exodus.

[tcj_jones]

Excellent post Phillip, almost exactly my thoughts.

[blue phil]

I still feel we must stick with Ferguson in midfield as he at least has the potential to become a good player at this level. The more games he plays, the more he will improve. I would also like to see what Thommo can do in centre-mid when he returns as we need more enthusiasm and attitude here.

I too used to think that the potential of Ferguson would come to the fore , now I just don't think it will do . A captain should have leadership qualities , be willing to take responsibility , go looking for the ball . Ferguson doesn't . He may have had the odd above average game or two but this is small return for the 7mill we splashed out on him . Let's hope Hughes takes him aside , shows him a few of his old videos of himself and hope that he shames him into acting like a real captain . As things stand it's a sad indictment of Fergy that there's little or no difference between his contribution to the team than the ageing Flitcroft's - and at least the latter got into a couple of goal scoring positions. Thompson is a permanent crock and I feel we have to discount him in our plans.

As Theno implied earlier , there's been a couple of big money signings under Souness that are distinctly fishy - I've been saying this for ages . 7mill for a Scottish league player is just a bit too lavish .

Finally , on the subject of Fergy , I took a bit of stick a while ago when I said that Savage would give us better service in midfield if we could get somebody to buy Fergy . At the moment , not only do we not have a single creative midfielder (with Tugay inexplicably not starting ) but our so called "enforcers" and ball winners threaten nobody . In short we have the weakest midfield in the league . THIS is the major factor which is causing havoc at the back and undermining confidence at the front . If the midfield is crap then it's a diet of the long ball (and a big reason to get Hartson!) . First priority , though , is a creative midfielder.

Roll on the transfer window.

Edited September 28, 2004 by blue phil

[tcj_jones]

Such a decline from last week at Portsmouth. Now I'm not saying he had a great game at Portsmouth, but he controlled the midfield, beat players at times and ALWAYS looked for the ball. He not only didn't show that last night, but gave the ball away stupidly all game and didn't get stuck in.

Before last night he hasn't looked bad at all and looked as though his confidence was on the up, but that shocking display against a poor Charlton side really fills me with disapointment. A great player not playing anywhere near his capability. A real shame as he's by far my highest rated player at the club, not to mention favourite to watch.

[John]

I know its just one game but Fergsuon looked out of sorts last night.

Didnt seem to have his mind on the game, looked dreadfully slow. Put one good pass of note in the second half.

Knowing how good he is, we are getting no where near the best out of him. As other people have been saying it was the type of the game when we needed our captain to be more influential.

[USABlue]

I too thought Ferguson was absent for 98% of the match. Started wondering if he has his mind on St James' Park already.

I am glad to see there are others who got some feelgood factor out of the game, I was beginning to think I was just going nuts.

Now the rant, for all you moaners. I did not want Mark Hughes as boss, many of you did. Did any of you whining crybaby why can't we play like Arsenal experts REALLY expect Hughes to turn this around after two games. He still has a lot to learn about our team, players, strengths weaknesses, give him time. If you all can not take some positive out of the change in effort, passion and commitment then there is something wrong. It was far superior to some of the limp wristed bend over and take it in the arse play we saw during Souness' reign. If Hughes has had this much impact in just over a week I saw we are on to something here, and here's an added bonus I actually enjoyed it as a football match, it had good entertainment value. Bring on the Villa we're gonna kill 'em.

Whoo hoo renewed hope over here, can you dig it, can you join me come on folks it's the start of something big, the defence hey it was good, we only let one in, not three. Amo was verygood last night I liked when he brought the ball out, for those of you who said he just lumped it you are nuts.

Edited September 28, 2004 by USABlue

[RovertheHill]

Souness, I believe, said that Ferguson would become the equal of Viera, Keane and Gerrard. I'm afraid to say I don't see that. At present, he's not even the equal of the Flitty of 2 years ago. He doesn't seem to like it up him (to quote Dad's Army) and Charlton's relentless pressing led to him drifting for long periods. Players like those above, and Lampard at Chelsea, dictate matches regardless of the oppo and above all, do it consistently. I just worry that playing for Rangers he only ever had 4 hard games a year and he still looks a good few games away from adjusting to me.

[RovertheHill]

If you all can not take some positive out of the change in effort, passion and commitment then there is something wrong.

I believe a lot of people have taken positives such as those described out of the game. It's all good and I'm pleased that Hughes is having an effect. However, the fact remains that we are rapidly being exposed for what we are - and hard work and effort are no substitute for class. I for one see worrrying parallels with our relegation season - namely that we are struggling to CREATE chances - let alone put them away. I just hope Sparky can turn it around and the board backs him in January - else we are going to have to rely on 3 other teams being worse than us (which thankfully, I think they are)

[mjs]

I'm confused now.  Surely it's worse to play yourself into trouble in your own half as it's more risky.  The old adage of don't take chances springs to mind.

Sorry, what I meant was, although he did play himself into trouble in his own half, which is worse than if he was in the oppositions, it was early in the first half, if I remember correctly, when the whole team was edgy and he did it rarely.

Just give it up mate - he was bad.

[tcj_jones]

I too thought Ferguson was absent for 98% of the match. Started wondering if he has his mind on St James' Park already.

I am glad to see there are others who got some feelgood factor out of the game, I was beginning to think I was just going nuts.

Now the rant, for all you moaners. I did not want Mark Hughes as boss, many of you did. Did any of you whining crybaby why can't we play like Arsenal experts REALLY expect Hughes to turn this around after two games. He still has a lot to learn about our team, players, strengths weaknesses, give him time. If you all can not take some positive out of the change in effort, passion and commitment then there is something wrong. It was far superior to some of the limp wristed bend over and take it in the arse play we saw during Souness' reign. If Hughes has had this much impact in just over a week I saw we are on to something here, and here's an added bonus I actually enjoyed it as a football match, it had good entertainment value. Bring on the Villa we're gonna kill 'em.

Whoo hoo renewed hope over here, can you dig it, can you join me come on folks it's the start of something big, the defence hey it was good, we only let one in, not three. Amo was verygood last night I liked when he brought the ball out, for those of you who said he just lumped it you are nuts.

Agree except for one thing - Amosuro's long balls. He didn't have a bad game at all but he really did just lump it 40 yards to no-one and we didn't have the physical strength up front to get anything from it. Very frustrating because he can give good distribution when he plays it along the floor.

[Manchester Blue]

I'm confused now.  Surely it's worse to play yourself into trouble in your own half as it's more risky.  The old adage of don't take chances springs to mind.

You hit the nail on the head yourself...that is an old concept. Any remotely successful team now knows that you have to play your way out from defence, if you just lump it up the opposition will just get the ball back straight away and the defence is under pressure again. Defences now are too good to be beaten by long balls out from the back, it's a tactic that we need to get rid off as soon as possible.

A decent long ball played into the right areas will still cause problems and is used regularly by Man U, Arse & others. However to suggest the concept of not taking chances is old is just nonsene. It is exactly why we have stuggled at times. We created half of Charlton's chances last night by poor passes in our own half. There is only one thing worse than seeing our defence hoofing the ball up the pitch, that is trying to be too clever with it and getting caught out.

I have no problem with the defence playing it out, it's what I want and expect, however the problem last night was that poor first touches, sloppy passes and casual play meant we were our own worst enemy.