[Archived] Will You Show The Fla A Yellow Card?

[Amanda]

STAND UP SIT DOWN

STAND UP SIT DOWN was launched in July as a new initiative for a common sense solution to the issue of standing.

We propose that at least one area of each ground be selected where supporters would be permitted to stand in front of their allocated seats.

It is not just a campaign for standing, but to restore choice for all supporters. This is an issue about which many supporters feel very strongly, and we are proposing a compromise solution, as an alternative to the current conflict and increasing sanctions by the authorities.

To date we have 750 members and over 2000 signatures on our petition, from supporters of more than 110 clubs. The average age of members is around 30. About 10% say they prefer to sit and 90% stand.

We have received encouraging replies from some clubs, and others agree privately, but are unwilling to be quoted. We have met with both the Premier League and the Football League, and are seeking a meeting with the FLA. We have also been invited to address the Safety Committee for West Ham, which will be an opportunity to put our proposals to various bodies, including the police & FLA.

Many of our members came via online forums, but tended to come in groups from each club, while the thread was on the top page. We hope that this new post will generate further interest, and update those who are already aware of the campaign.

For full details, visit www.standupsitdown.co.uk

Please both sign the petition and join the campaign, as the more members we have, the greater will be our influence.

A summary of our proposed solution and its benefits follows:

PROPOSED SOLUTION

The suitability for standing to be objectively assessed for each area of every ground, with input from clubs and supporters, rather than the current blanket ban applied to the top two divisions.

At least one area of each ground to be selected where supporters would be permitted to stand in front of their allocated seats.

Persistent standing not to be tolerated in other areas, ensuring that those who prefer to sit will not have their view blocked by others standing.

Where possible, away supporters allocations to be divided into standing and sitting areas, by tier (upper seated, lower standing), block, or rows (front seated, back standing).

This is a compromise and achievable solution, based on common sense, and for the benefit of all concerned. The preferred option for many supporters of new safe standing areas, is unlikely to become reality in the foreseeable future, for both financial and political reasons.

BENEFITS OF OUR PROPOSED SOLUTION

Dealing with safety according to the specific risk in each area, is likely to achieve greater supporter compliance, than the use of increasingly severe sanctions to force them to sit in areas where few people see a real safety risk.

Deals with the customer care issue, by separating supporters who wish to stand, from those who prefer or need to sit.

Allows crowd management, by allocating each supporter their own individual space (in front of their numbered seat).

Requires no major financial outlay, or significant ground modifications. Capacities would be as for current seated areas, so present exit, toilet & catering facilities would remain satisfactory.

Causes no loss in income for clubs. Ticket prices would remain similar to current seats, and improved atmosphere may even attract additional supporters.

Allows those who wish to stand and vocally support their team, to congregate in the same area, and to generate improved atmosphere.

STAND UP SIT DOWN

PO Box 51, Purfleet, Essex, RM19 1SY

www.standupsitdown.co.uk

Edited March 22, 2005 by Amanda

[Paul]

Amanda, I edited your post to make the links work.

Paul

[Uddersfelt Blue]

Don't you understand law?

[Linny8]

Wasn't this same topic advertised a couple of weeks back? Hows it getting on? Are people taking notice?

[Amanda]

We do not sit because of the law, we sit because of recommendations... Peter, the originator of the campaign has just been on 5 Live with a bod from the FLA... it would appear that everybody has been consulted on this issue with the exception of us the supporters... draw your own conclusions! It amazes me that the fact that millions stood for decades without suffering injury (beyond the odd bruise or grazed knee) and that non of the footballing tragedies were because of people standing are blissfully ignored by these people who, because they cannot come up with logical objections to safe standing, come up with the most absurd reasoning against it.

Apparently safety is paramount.... below is a quote from a letter I received from the FLA in the context that they say standing obscures vision of the pitch. OK, you don't get a perfect view of the pitch while standing but if people were that bothered why do 100's of supporters still stand at games - when they can get away with it?!

"...if you are along the sides you will be forced to stretch and strain to follow play down the wings thereby increasing the risk of losing balance and falling..."

Thanks for the edit!

I have no objection to people caring about my safety but I strongly object to lack of reasoning and common sense.

2244 people have signed the petition at the last count, but while that is extremely helpful, a large membership is just as important, so please sign AND join!

The campaign is not about the re-introduction of terracing but standing in front of your seat in a designated area. Stand Up Sit Down represents those who want to sit as well...

Edited September 25, 2004 by Amanda

[modes98]

I have no objection to people caring about my safety but I strongly object to lack of reasoning and common sense.

What like buying a seat and sitting in it! Sounds a simple way of organising big crows i know!

People do stand at every game and it means others stand up and so on.

I think our current all seater stadiums are fine. Changing it just brings in alot of uncertaintys and could make it hard to stage large events because of health & saftey!

[Amanda]

Modes, the idea is that each ground has a designated area for those who want to stand meaning those, like you, who prefer to sit can do so without having the view obscured by somebody's backside. As I said, the campaign is about people like you just as much as it is about people like me who want stand!

So, if you don't want to be forced to stand because of those around you then your signature and joining is just as valid and important.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

'It amazes me that the fact that millions stood for decades without suffering injury (beyond the odd bruise or grazed knee) and that non of the footballing tragedies were because of people standing are blissfully ignored by these people who, because they cannot come up with logical objections to safe standing, come up with the most absurd reasoning against it. '

Bolton football disaster of 1946: 33 killed hundreds injured.

Ibrox 1971: 66 killed hundreds injured.

Hillsborough 1989: 96 killed.

I'm sorry Amanda but your above comment couldn't be further from the truth.I personally would like to see standing re-introduced at football grounds,the atmosphere is @#/? but I'm sorry to say it wont happen.

Edited September 25, 2004 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[stuwilky]

Wasnt Ibrox a result of too many people trying to leave the ground at the same time and a crush inside the stairway? Nothing at all to do with sitting/standing on the terraces?

[grizfoot]

Standing just creates problems for one some people won't be able to see. I.e. Little people won't be able to see the game because of taller people infront. Also people will stand anywhere, and you'd have people moaning, complaining.

Standing was in the past, Seating is the future and it is much safer IMO.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Thats correct stuwilky but it could aslo be said that overcrowded terracing WAS a factor in the disaster.

[stuwilky]

Standing just creates problems for one some people won't be able to see. I.e. Little people won't be able to see the game because of taller people infront. Also people will stand anywhere, and you'd have people moaning, complaining.

Standing was in the past, Seating is the future and it is much safer IMO.

Grizfoot read what the campaign is about.

As Amanda and the other poster some months ago said, it is about CHOICE. If people want to sit down thats great, if people want to stand up, that should be allowed. What the standupsitdown campaign is trying to acheive is just that. If you want to stand you buy a ticket in the standing area, if you want to sit you buy a seat in the sitting area. Easy. Youd have thought so.

Surely that is much better than the nasty situation we have now where someone stands and the bloke behind says "ere mister sit down" and all kinds of agro breaks out.....

[Amanda]

I apologise if some of my comments appear crass and I would happilly be corrected but to the best of my knowledge, no footballing disaster has occured because people have been allowed to stand or just because people have stood..

I have stood at games and on a couple of occasions have, in the excitement of a goal celebration, been pushed and knocked into the seats in front. I accept that is part of the game and frankly, have never minded going home with the odd bruise. However, I have never in over 15 years been in a situation where I have been scared or seriously concerned for my safety. Equally, I have never witnessed anybody being seriously hurt or any serious incident occuring because people have stood.

I have witnessed plenty of arguments and heated situations where over zealous stewards and police have moved in to force people to sit.

I would not advocate people being allowed to stand in upper tiers, particuarly steep ones. But most lower tiers are not steep and people have stood on those, regardless of rules and regulations, without coming to any real harm.

Playing devils advocate.... if there were a serious incident at a ground, what would your natural inclination be? No doubt to stand and get the hell out of there or onto the pitch. Seats could more than likely hamper your progress and cause more panic because people couldn't move quickly...

Edited September 25, 2004 by Amanda

[tashor]

Cracking idea this....

And I would like to propose that we have standing only areas in women's toilets and, of course, sitting only areas on men's urinals....

We could solve the problem of speed cameras by having pedalling only areas on our highways....

The hunting dilemma can be settled by having vegetarian only foxhounds....

The war on terror can be resolved by replacing all muslims with buddhist fundamentalists....

And in fact all the problems in the world can be remedied by replacing god with kermit the frog....

Well done Amanda love.....you are indeed the devine holy nymph Rebecca the Great

[Scotty]

Cracking idea this....

And I would like to propose that we have standing only areas in women's toilets and, of course, sitting only areas on men's urinals....

We could solve the problem of speed cameras by having pedalling only areas on our highways....

The hunting dilemma can be settled by having vegetarian only foxhounds....

The war on terror can be resolved by replacing all muslims with buddhist fundamentalists....

And in fact all the problems in the world can be remedied by replacing god with kermit the frog....

Well done Amanda love.....you are indeed the devine holy nymph Rebecca the Great

Pi55ed again Tash?

[tashor]

Cracking idea this....

And I would like to propose that we have standing only areas in women's toilets and, of course, sitting only areas on men's urinals....

We could solve the problem of speed cameras by having pedalling only areas on our highways....

The hunting dilemma can be settled  by having vegetarian only foxhounds....

The war on terror can be resolved by replacing all muslims with buddhist fundamentalists....

And in fact all the problems in the world can be remedied by replacing god with kermit the frog....

Well done Amanda love.....you are indeed the devine holy nymph Rebecca the Great 

Pi55ed again Tash?

Maybe...

but I could solve this with alcohol-free beer

[thenodrog]

I have stood at games and on a couple of occasions have, in the excitement of a goal celebration, been pushed and knocked into the seats in front. I accept that is part of the game and frankly, have never minded going home with the odd bruise.

Yeah and break your leg and you and your accident chasing scumbag lawyer would prob be the first in the queue to claim damages.

Clubs would be committing financial suicide to sanction or condone standing in seated areas. They are simply not designed for that purpose. The only alternative to all seater stadia is to have a section of the ground reverted to terracing with lots of barriers then the stupid d1ckheads can all stand together.

Better still lets have a real return to tradition for the above section of football fans and take the roof off!

btw Amanda shouldn't you be busy in the kitchen?

[blue phil]

Playing devils advocate.... if there were a serious incident at a ground, what would your natural inclination be? No doubt to stand and get the hell out of there or onto the pitch. Seats could more than likely hamper your progress and cause more panic because people couldn't move quickly...

But , Mandy , you say in your opening post that the campaign is all about standing in front of a fixed seat . So you would still have to scramble over the seats in the event of an emergency and end up with bruises all over your legs and arms and ........stop, stop....

[super_neill]

Even though i do agree with the stand up thingy, i do get the feeling that its getting very boring with numerous people bringing this up all the time. I mean come on lets face it aint never going to happen.

[CAPT KAYOS]

I have stood at games and on a couple of occasions have, in the excitement of a goal celebration, been pushed and knocked into the seats in front.  I accept that is part of the game and frankly, have never minded going home with the odd bruise.

Yeah and break your leg and you and your accident chasing scumbag lawyer would prob be the first in the queue to claim damages.

Clubs would be committing financial suicide to sanction or condone standing in seated areas. :

1. As you would do TND when panic ensues in your seating area for some reason or other.

2. Why? I have asked you this before on the other thread regarding this and you have still yet to give any reasoned explanation or evidence.

StuWilky - Why is it becoming boring? as with any campaign it has to start gathering momentum somewhere, and at the moment this can only be within the realms of the football paying spectator - no disrespect to you but with defeatist attitude saying ' it ain't never going to happen' nothing will.

Amanda, as mentioned earlier there is another thread that was started on this and I have added my name to your campaign and receive mails - I would like to do some more but don't have the time due to personal matters at the moment but when things get a little less hectic possibly.

What the objectors miss on here is the understanding of 'CHOICE' yet they are the same that moan if somebody stands in front of them when they are sat in their seat.

[Tony Diamond Inc]

I regularly attend gigs, many of which offer the CHOICE of seating or standing. Where possible I CHOOSE to stand.

Even though I am 6' 1" sometimes my vision will be obscured by people in front of me, however the standing enhances the overall experience.

I would like that same CHOICE at football grounds. Anyone got any objections!

[krislu]

Almost every football ground in Norway have seating and standing areas, and you are more than welcome to take the trip overseas and stand for 90min watching quality football.

There is no roof above the standing areas though, so bring your umbrella, it wont insult anyone as you are the only @#/? present...

[Amanda]

Back to the top for all you week day posters...

Thanks to those of you who have already signed and joined!

[thenodrog]

Yeah and break your leg and you and your accident chasing scumbag lawyer would prob be the first in the queue to claim damages.

Clubs would be committing financial suicide to sanction or condone standing in seated areas. :

2. Why? I have asked you this before on the other thread regarding this and you have still yet to give any reasoned explanation or evidence.

Sorry Capt its the same point. If in contravention of Taylor a club sanctioned standing in seated areas there would surely be an issue with the insurance company. Higher premiums or worse a refusal to insure the spectators in those areas could be seriously costly.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Yeah and break your leg and you and your accident chasing scumbag lawyer would prob be the first in the queue to claim damages.

Clubs would be committing financial suicide to sanction or condone standing in seated areas. :

2. Why? I have asked you this before on the other thread regarding this and you have still yet to give any reasoned explanation or evidence.

Sorry Capt its the same point. If in contravention of Taylor a club sanctioned standing in seated areas there would surely be an issue with the insurance company. Higher premiums or worse a refusal to insure the spectators in those areas could be seriously costly.

Thanks for the response TND and I agree.

However, this is an aspect that will be looked at - its no different to the old days when standing was the majority - and If everything goes well with the campaign no doubt a report will be drawn up to cover such scenarios and issues.

As mentioned its all about the choice to stand and not about enforcing on other people if they chose not to stand - I appreciate your response as it adds to reasons for/against etc and something I hope to possibly give some time to in the future for the Rovers Fans which unfortunately due to personal commitments at the moment I cannot afford the time to.