[Archived] Will You Show The Fla A Yellow Card?

[Ste B]

It appears (unless its just to me), that Rovers are sending letters to a lot of the Blackburn End, along the lines of "sit down and behave yourself.. or else"

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

If that's true its bloody ridiculous,the atmosphere at home games is bad enough.

The club knows well enough that the Blackburn End lower is the focal point for the most partisan and vocal element within Ewood and has been for many moons....why cant the club except this and relax the rules a little,surely there is no harm done?

I feel supporter's patience will be really tested with this one,at a time when the clubs support seems to be on the decline,letters to people's houses threatening them with possible bans will NOT be a welcome move!!

Edited October 2, 2004 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[stuwilky]

Our club is superb. Letters sent to every supports who sits on Row 26 or behind apparently.

Including people who dont stand - just a general threatening letter to all our fans. WE struggled to get to 17000 Rovers fans today! Whilst on one hand the club claim to be working hard to generate sales, with the other hand all the hard work gets thrown out of the window.

less than 10,000 season tickets next season.......... ?

[sumps]

Yet today most of the Villa fans were stood for the whole game.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

The angry chants from some of area N01 came across loud and clear today,if you do read this mb John Newsham/Mr Williams please be carefull how you treat our supporters..they dont deserve to feel isolated any further!!!

Edited October 2, 2004 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[stuwilky]

The angry chants from some of area N01 came across loud and clear today,if you do read this mb John Newsham/Mr Williams please be carefull how you treat our supporters..they dont deserve to feel isolated any further!!!

Following my lenghtly (good natured) discussion with the supervisor and team leader (and two others) towards the end of the second half I am making arrangement to speak with John Newsham concerning the issues.

Interestngly around 50% of the chanting was directed at thew stewards - people are not happy. We should be supporting our team, the club dont seem to want this in a lot of ways.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

With you 100% mate..the powers that be are playing a very dangerous game with some of the clubs most passionate supporters.

[Paul]

Difficult isn't it? I heard about this letter at half time and my first reaction was "look at the Villa fans". Right now we don't need the club to alienate a single fan, but the club have a duty to ensure safety and compliance with the ground licence.

What I do not understand is why there is never any apparent effort to ensure visiting fans sit down? To constantly harrass the home support yet do nothing about the away fans is utterly unfair. This situation can't be allowed to continue at any PL ground. If the rules say fans must sit and those rules are to be enforced it has to be done so equally. Surely the PL can sanction away support by fining the offending club.

Personally I no longer want to stand but I see why some do. Have to say I think you're fighting a lost battle BUT you are right to argue the club is not treating home and away support equally. This is very unfair. Standing will not return to football and all those arguing for it really are wasting their breath.

Can someone post the text of this letter on here?

[Paul]

However, I have never in over 15 years been in a situation where I have been scared or seriously concerned for my safety.  Equally, I have never witnessed anybody being seriously hurt or any serious incident occuring because people have stood.

Just been re-reading this thread Amanda. I admire your organisation for arguing for what some fans want but if the basis of your arguement is as posted here it seems to ignore some real safety issues.

The only occassions I've been frightened at a game were many years ago in large terraced crowds. Get yourself in the wrong position and it can get very uncomfortable.

Standing in front of seat risks physical injury. I think any plan to allow fans to stand in front of their seats is lunacy. If fans chose to do this now it's their risk and they would probably not be compenstaed by the club. If the clubs allow fans to stand the potential for legal action following injury is enormous. I'd like to give you two examples.

The crowd tips forward as a goal is scored, a fan slips and gets his feet stuck under the seat in front, the crowd continues to push forward, the fan could easily break a leg.

Many years ago at Maine Road my lad leapt in the air as Rovers scored, jumped on his seat and then slipped between the tilted up seat and the seat back. He was trapped, if someone had pushed forward or lost balance they could have fallen right over him causing serious injury.

Another question for you. Segreagted seating and standing areas for away fans. The seated area sells out, the standing area is available but I still want to go with my kids. How are you going to solve that one? Leave the seats empty? I'm afraid the solutions you put forward are full of holes.

[stuwilky]

I'd like to give you two examples.

The crowd tips forward as a goal is scored, a fan slips and gets his feet stuck under the seat in front, the crowd continues to push forward, the fan could easily break a leg.

Paul, couldnt this situation happen now?

[Glenn]

Sadly, those protesting today lost ALL credability when they started singing "£2 an hour".

Also, nobody seems to have picked up on this (including the Villa fans that stood for the entire games).

Langham plea to away fans on Sep 29 2004

[Paul]

I'd like to give you two examples.

The crowd tips forward as a goal is scored, a fan slips and gets his feet stuck under the seat in front, the crowd continues to push forward, the fan could easily break a leg.

Paul, couldnt this situation happen now?

Yes of course it could. I don't really mind if people sit or stand, I like to sit, just wanted to point out why the clubs can't allow standing. If you persistently stand and break your leg the club have a reasonable arguement with the Health and Saftey people and the insurance company.

[ABBEY]

not only did we get letters but the lad in front of me has his season ticket taken off him and as been banned....i had a go at the police for the villa fans standing up and was told ALTHOUGH ITS LAW IT WAS NOWT TO DO WITH THEM.

ON THE LETTERS WE GOT IT BASICALLY SAID SIT DOWN OR ELSE BUT AWAY FANS CAN STAND UP .

At the back of the darwen end there was one guy in a white jumper who was not only stood up but stood on the staeps right in front of 2 stewards who never batted an eyelid and they even walked around him to get by.

The police at the bottom of the blackburn had their video camera out as well.

If it wasnt for my little lad i would give the ungrateful concerned my season ticket back.Lets have it right the same rules apply to both sets of fans but just to take the cowardly bully boy tactics in the blackburn end way out and ban people is the best way to entice more fans in ....

as we sang... sh!t on your home fans.

more empty seats bet your ass there will be.....btw i was a good lad today and sat down and couldnt see the first two goals.

then at 1/2 time my mates lad was playing footy with a plastic bottle and this female steward stopped them and said she was going to throw him out ,he said she would have to let his dad know and she said she would do no such thing.

ive never had a more unjoyable day at rovers before and if this is the way its going to be they can stick their 380 quid up the ass

Edited October 2, 2004 by ABBEY

[stuwilky]

We obviously have a small army of fans ready to take the place of those who the club alienates through their heavy handedness towards their own fans, the inconsistant approach they have towards home and away fans.

They claim there is nothing they can do when everyone stands up. At Old Trafford last Tuesday there was 3500 turkish fans who were brilliant, standing and shouting and singing for an hour pre match. Midway through the first half the stewards waded in and made most of them sit down. Eventually the majority of them did.

Being the kind of person I am i made some little notes in the second half. In the Darren End lower tier there was 39 stewards and 5 police officers in the Lower Tier. None of the making any effort to gets any of the 2000 or so fans to sit down.

[Billinge End Blue]

I'd love there to be standing areas at football grounds again, ideally without any seats but, if necessary, with people standing in front of them.

The problem now is the lack of choice...everyone is expected to get the same matchday experience wherever they sit in the ground. I don't go in the Blackburn End myself anymore so people who do might think I'm not entitled to this view but the whole of the lower tier should be unreserved seating. There should still be season tickets available for 85% of it and the fans who buy a ticket for it should accept there may be periods of standing during games around them.

There are families and old codgers (admittedly almost one myself!) sat in what used to be the crucible of the Ewood roar....why? Why do they feel they should sit there when regardless of the terracing/seat debate, that type of fan never used to?

Supporters of the same type (ie those who attend matches in the same manner) should cluster together. The atmosphere would improve immensely and the standing debate would be less of a general issue.

With our recent fall in attendances, every effort should be made to get the fickle, fairweather or alienated fan back and that can only be achieved by making it easier for them to attend spontaneously.

Ten minutes after the recent Bournemouth game kicked off there were still a few hundred queuing for tickets behind the Blackburn End - regardless of the security stance of the club on this, it is certainly a retrograde step over the covenience of pay turnstiles that everyone finds it convenient to ignore.

I doubt we'll ever hear the Blackburn End songs of yore the way things are...then we wonder why the atmosphere seems diminished.

I think Amanda's attempts are admirable but there are too many people in the comfort zone to achieve the change...Colin Moynihan has a lot to answer for.

[Linny8]

Great post Billinge end blue! I reckon that one stand like the darwen end should be made into a speccified standing end which can be segregated for both home and away fans. Although I believe it is very unrealistic to think that this will get near being approved of even though I back it 101%. But im desperate so il support anything like this to hear an atmosphere thanks to the morgue that is the walkersteel!

[roversWASmylife]

It really is pathetic.

We all pay x amount a season to watch "our" team. The fans do their best to back the team all the way throughout the game.

I think we'd all agree that standing does create a better atmosphere.

What I find most annoying and I'm sure most of us do on here, is that there is a small minority who do wish to stand. However game after game we get told to sit down, yet the majority of visiting supporters who come to Ewood to watch their team, never seem to have anything done about it.

Germany and other European Countries have areas within the stadium so that they can stand, if fans wish to do so.

Why couldn't that solution be introduced here?

You can't have one rule for us and another for others...

[American]

I'd like to give you two examples.

The crowd tips forward as a goal is scored, a fan slips and gets his feet stuck under the seat in front, the crowd continues to push forward, the fan could easily break a leg.

Paul, couldnt this situation happen now?

Yes of course it could. I don't really mind if people sit or stand, I like to sit, just wanted to point out why the clubs can't allow standing. If you persistently stand and break your leg the club have a reasonable arguement with the Health and Saftey people and the insurance company.

Pardon my ignorance, but how can the crowd push forward with rows of seats in the way? The only incidents I've ever heard about (there and here) of crowds being trampled came from "festival/terrace" seating, with general admission type seats and no rows of chairs. Have you ever seen someone leaning over the seat in front of them while celebrating? They'd almost have to brace their feet under their own seats to physically be able to do that.

[Paul]

Bloke behind you slips. pushes you forward, simple really. I know it's hypothetical but isn't that what Health and Safety is all about?

[stuwilky]

Paul I take all your points, but why just football.

All the scenarios outlined and more can happen at Rugby, can happen at pop concerts, music festivals.......

The two most dangerous points in a football game......

A goal being scored. and everyone trying to leave just after the full time whistle.....

We dont get announcements saying, Rows 1-10 may stand up and leave the ground now do we?

[Billinge End Blue]

What about sitting down and waving a flag or banner or group of lads synchro clapping with arms over their heads? Where do you draw the line with this? The standing v seating debate is never going to be won by those of us who want to stand but just get likeminded fans together without the dilution effect of those who politely applaud being interspersed. And let them bring irregulars with them to sit alongside their mates if they are loud enough!

Get the boisterous lot together even if it requires some steward to come around and Araldite their keks to the seats!

[Paul]

Paul I take all your points, but why just football.

Heysel, Hillsborough, Bradford, hooliganism all contributed, to some extent, to the outcome of the Taylor report recommending all-seater stadia.

I can't recall people dieing in numbers at rugby, rock concerts, festivals, theatre etc. I don't have a problem with people wanting to stand, I just don't think it's going to happen and can see the reasons why.

[stuwilky]

There have been numberous deaths at concerts and festivals, notably most recently the festival where Foo Fighters were playing and 30 odd peopke (I think) were crushed.

The risks are the same, in these environments as they were on a terrace.

[roversWASmylife]

Paul - I understand your points.

But across the whole of Europe, several European countries do have seater-stadiums.

Take Broussia Dortmund - seater stadium yet they have a segregated area where fans, if they wish to do so are allowed to do so.

Same is with AS Roma in Italy.

[American]

Bloke behind you slips. pushes you forward, simple really. I know it's hypothetical but isn't that what Health and Safety is all about?

Bloke next to you claps too wide apart and pokes your eye out. Same amount of risk. And of the incidents you later mention. How many of those happened in sections with seats?