[Archived] Rovers 0 V 4 Middlesbrough review

[chris]

I don't want to see Vratti back at left back, he's looked all to clumsy to play there.. at left wing on the other hand, I think he can do a job. However, here I want to see Gamst Pedersen or De Pedro get a run, because they ARE our leftwingers. Gamst will probably cover better defensively than De Pedro, against Chelsea I guess that covering up on the opposite wing is more important - since they don't have any rightwingers at the moment.

I don't know how Neill would cope in a central defender position, but if he can play there then getting him in and Reid down at right back seems interesting. Lucas is more pacy than Amo/Matteo for sure, it's more the tactical bit that worries me when it comes to playing him in there..!

Emerton should obviously play at the right wing, even though Reid did ok there - Emo's qualities is needed on that side, not on the left where he looks out of position. (which he is..)

again agree, Gresko is a poor left back, in a season I thik his mistakes would cost to team 8-12 points thought his mistakes alone, a very poor defender and the reason Souness gambled on Gray.

Also not sure Neill has the positional sense to play CB

[McClarky]

I can't believe how bad we were yesterday, even with the atandards of the last season and a bit that was shocking. The most depressing thing about it though is I can't see much room for improvement withg the current squad.

From yesterdays team I would say that Neill, Amoruse & Reid are never going to be good enough. Of the rest who could anyone call either outstanding or a key member of the team (goalie excepted). Ferguson does OK but nothing more than OK in my book, Tugay is past it, Gray can't defend, Matteo .......etc.....etc.

Who could come in and improve things? Maybe Short & Todd should get a few games together at the back but Short is 36 and injury prone. Maybe Thommo could do a job but he has been so long injured since he has been here who knows whether he will come back as the same player.

And another thing, why were people clapping Tugay when he got sent off? Well done mate, you've just cost us the game. His tackle was just so stupid, even if he hadn't been booked he might have got a straight red for it and there was no reason for it apart from stupidity.

Listening to radio Pravda after the game you would have thought that we had won the amount of positives peoiple were taking from the game. There were no positives from saturday's game at all.

Basically we are a dream to play aginst. The opposition knows they will be under no pressure at the back and if they wait long enouigh we'll gift them a couple of goals. We're going down boys and we'd better get used to the idea.

[frosty]

Anybody else thinking what im thinking?

Yep, and i'm sure we all are

[Ossydave]

I have stated this several times

Lucas Neill should be played at centre half alongside Short. Gresko should be brought in at left back leaving reid at right back.

I am not a supporter of Reid but we know he has pace if not a lot else to cope with a left winger.

I am dreading next weekend.

I looked at the odds for the Boro score and you got a minimum of 40-1, I have tried to look at the odds for next weekend and fully expect a good set of odds for a 6 or 7 nil scoreline UNLESS drastic action is taken.

Back to our team.

Well Friedel has not done much wrong so he stays at Number 1.

Defenders as above.

Midfield - well certainly we start with Emerton and Fergie, I would also put Flitcroft in (thats if he hasnt left to join Wigan as was the rumour on Saturday), the 4th member of that midfield would be Gray as the left sided option, allowing for any formation change in the second half.

The front is where next problem lies.

I would stick Stead up front as a lone player and leave Djorkeaff to support him or simply bolster the midfield.

That gives us

Friedel

Reid,Neill,Short,Gresko

Emerton,Ferguson,Flitcroft,Gray

Djorkeaff

Stead

subs wise and if fit

Enckleman

NEJ

MGP

Gallacher/Jansen

Todd

Chelsea play a strong midfield of Lampard,geremi,makele and Duff. I watch them closely and see that as Man City did if you cramp Duff and get a Lampard then they dont appear to be able to cause many problems. I saw nothing in the City line up that we havent got (Anelka aside) and in Chelsea I thought they were very one dimentional.

A whole lot of pundits are ready to put Rovers out to slaughter next weekend, I believe Rovers are currently 8-1 to win on the fixed odds. I cant see us winning in reality but we are their bogey team and we are due a whole lotta luck.

Heres hoping eh ?

Ok we have a slight problem here - Neill can't head a ball.

End of.

[bazza]

Hughes first task is to make us sheer bloody minded and difficult to beat.  We no longer have the quality of player to trade punches with the top dozen teams in the Prem.  We will be unpopular but we need to play with a 4-5-1 formation home and away until we get a few points in the bag.  Neil Short Todd Gray at the back with a midfied from Reid (did OK yesterday and has a physical presence lacking in Tugay, De Pedro, MGP etc), Flitcroft, Ferguson (looking better all the time),  Douglas, Thompson, Emerton with Djorkaeff given a roaming role between midfield and striker.  Up front a lone stiker of either Dickov or Bothroyd (havn't had time to assess him prop yet but must be used to playing lone striker in Italy........and he MUST be better at controlling and holding a ball up than John 'Bambi' Stead whose second touch is invariably a tackle).  So called flair players ie MGP, Tugay, De Pedro, Amo, Jansen on the bench for use in the last 15 mins only if there is an opportunity to push on and win the game .

That's the most sensible post on this thread so far in planning how we get out of this mess.

I've been racking my brains all weekend putting myself in Sparky's shoes and trying to pick a side of battlers. I even had Jemal Johnson, Gally and Bothroyd in a three pronged attack

But we need battling tacklers like Douglas in the side.

[chris]

If Dickov is our lone striker for the season then we deserve to go down, its such a depressing situation when Cole and Stead looked so good towards the end of last season, to go from that to this is the lowest of the low.

Our future is stead, lets put some faith in him, he proved his class last season, once he gets one he will probably score a load, but we need to get the right players around him.

[Glenn]

Ok we have a slight problem here - Neill can't head a ball.

End of.

We have another. People keep including bloody long unrequired quotes. Stop It. Please.

[USABlue]

Just returned from Mexico. Was not expecting muc from this game but 4-0 is a bit of a shocker.

[mode_m]

Here is the team and formation (5-3-2) I would like to try with Rovers.

Dickov Stead

Pederson Ferguson Djorkoeve

Tugay Emerton

Gray Matteo Short

Friedel

Rovers need someone to replace Tugay and a young defender...probably a more experienced striker to replace stead too.

Edited October 17, 2004 by mode_m

[USABlue]

[2 The club (wrongly in my view but its too late now) appointed the overwheming choice of the fans (and players ffs ) as the new manager.*

We told 'em so did'nt we TND. No really, it's too bad. Don't want to slate him yet but if memory serves we have always suffered after the international breaks.

Next week is scary too, Chelsea will be like a house on fire.

Can Hughes bring us back up, that was always my worry.

[92er]

I thought we were pretty ineffective in the first half-no end product from lots of passing. My wife,however,thought that Hughes had produced a level of improvement by ensuring players cut out a lot of simple mistakes.On this basis, he is already making some impact.

When we started to improve last season, it wasn't because Amoruso came back,it was because his return coincided with a more defensive formation in midfield and Cole making chances for Stead. I presume Youri could play a similar role to Andrew Cole so we need to work on the midfield.

[92er]

A lot of people hope it's Amuroso's last match.He's not only a poor defender, but he's also one of the three highest players at the club.

[Tango]

I've just seen the goals on Match of The Day 2. Beforehand I'd held out the hope that our defending wasn't as bad as some had made out, how wrong I was.

Pedestrian is the kindest thing I can say for it. Amoruso really does have the turning circle of a milk float with the pace to match. Neither centre-halfs picked up any of Middlesbrough's attacking players... it was just painful to watch

[colin]

A lot of people hope it's Amuroso's last match.He's not only a poor defender, but he's also one of the three highest players at the club.

Well, he played like he was stoned out of his brain.

Could explain a lot.

[Radagast]

A lot of people hope it's Amuroso's last match.He's not only a poor defender, but he's also one of the three highest players at the club.

Who are the other two stoners?

(I apologise)

EDIT> Damn you, Colin.

Edited October 17, 2004 by Radagast

[92er]

Ferguson is number 1 and Emerton is joint number 2.

[LeChuck]

Can't believe Hughes played Emerton on the left after how well he's done on the right recently, he may have some confidence back but messing him about won't help it stay there. I've noticed Hughes do it with Wales and it looks as though we might have to expect the same, a midfield where people are shifted left, right and centre with players often on the 'wrong' side.

We have to ditch Amoruso before he does us any more damage and preferably Matteo too, Short has to come in. We need a settled partner for Ferguson, Tugay is obviously not the man so it will have to Flitty/Reid/Douglas/Thommo. None of them are ideal, in a strange way Reid would probably be the best if he could adapt to that role because of his athletic qualities. With everyone fit I think we should line-up something like this:

Friedel

Neill Short Johansson Gray

Emerton Reid Ferguson De Pedro

Stead Jansen

Johansson has never really done anything wrong when he's been picked, he's certainly a better option than Amoruso. When (if?) De Pedro gets himself in good condition then we'll have a quality left winger. The bench would look quite healthy too with Todd, Thompson, Dickov and Djorkaeff who could all come on. With regards to Djorkaeff, I'm wondering whether Hughes has actually given himself more problems than answers by putting him in the starting 11. He doesn't really score enough to justify a position up front, especially as we don't have a striker we can rely on for goals. I think a role coming on from the bench if we need to try harder to open teams up would suit him well, I still feel potentially Jansen and Stead is our best combination for getting goals.

[philipl]

A couple of sympathetic but starkly realistic reports here:

The Independent

The Guardian

The point that our regular crowds are 2,000 less than the lowest gate in our, dare I say it, previous relegation season is a huge worry.

One of the reports points to the Boro fans having players they can identify with whereas we have nobody. Fair enough.

But surely the key issue is that the Rovers have been playing unentertaining non-winning football at Ewood for over 18 months now and that must be driving people away.

I had hoped the entertainment factor in the Villa game was a pointer to the future. Obviously it was all too easy for McLaren to watch the video and snuff that out allied to the self-inflicted blows of playing Emo on the wrong side and Tugay leaving his brain in the dressing room.

Edited October 18, 2004 by philipl

[Paul]

From The Guardian article:

The fans need something to grasp on to and the absence of personality contrasted with Boro. For their large travelling support Hasselbaink offers charisma and they will identify their growing confidence with his goals.

McMahon is from Bishop Auckland and Morrison from Darlington. Along with Downing, Middlesbrough means something to them.

More than Blackburn means to Lorenzo Amoruso - he was straight down the tunnel on being substituted

I was saying this months ago under Souness, and I'm not picking out Amo as the target. Within reason whatever happens this season I shall back Hughes. He has to deal with the team Souness put together - it looks more laughable to call him a football manger as each game goes by - and can't be truely judged until he (Hughesy) has moulded his own side.

Against Bournemouth and on Saturday there would odd flashes of quality play. In both games the ball was on the ground, Jansen and Stead were involved on Saturday; against the Cherries it was MGP, Jansen, Stead and Gally. While I don't suggest we put the reserves out against Chelsea I want to see the young players tried soon. I want a hero.

I wasn't especially angry on Saturday, just accepted the inevitable. We have a team full of journeymen, here for the coin, with no interest in our club. I no longer support these players, I support Blackburn Rovers. I can support anyone who tries but we did not have a player in the starting 11 that created a whiff of excitment for me. Not one who I shall be disappointed to see leave. Stead is the only player Souness signed that I can feel anything for... Friedel excepted.

My eldest doesn't have an ST this year (he's going to Australia soon) and I've been stumping up £24 - £28 each game for his ticket. It has certainly made me think. I'm sure we would have stopped already if myself and the other two kids didn't have STs. Crowds are dropping? On a match by match basis it would cost us £60 - £70 per game - it isn't value for money and there lies the problem.

I've asked before and I'll say it again, ad nauseum, we need HEROES.

[Alan75]

Paul, I started a thread back in September, regarding the commitment of players. Especially the foreign players on the books and I questioned whether we would get more commitment from locally developed players.

Looking at the team that started against Bournemouth, it was like looking at an United Nations convention with players from all parts of the globe. Australia, Italy Sweden, Finland, Slovakia, Spain, Norway, Turkey, Ireland, in fact the team that started only had two English born players, one of which has been plying his trade abroad until a few weeks ago. Even then only one of the starting line up, Douglas (Ireland), had come through the Rovers youth set up. Admittedly another academy player, local lad, Paul Gallagher did come on as a sub.

Apart from the two English lads, the majority of those players have international experience and, with no disrespect to Bournemouth, they should have sealed the game before half time. So I have to question their commitment, do they really care about Rovers as a club or just as their pay masters.

Of the players that started I can only think of Tugay who has shown any appreciation to the fans, the rest appear to be using the club as a meal ticket.

MGP is quoted as saying that Rovers is a stepping stone, Gresko was brilliant during his loan period, then since getting a contract has become a liability.

Last season we had Babbel who used Rovers to get fit and even stated that he was allowed to make mistakes at Ewood.

Looking at some of the players that started makes me wonder if this influx of foreign players is also an underlying cause for the decline in gates, as fans cant associate with the players.

I wonder what sort of commitment we would have had from a team of locally born players, maybe without the same talent but at least, they would have been proud to wear the shirt.

What was the response.

You're beginning to sound like Graeme 'Johnny foreigner' Souness, Alan.

[FourLaneBlue]

More than Blackburn means to Lorenzo Amoruso - he was straight down the tunnel on being substituted

I was saying this months ago under Souness, and I'm not picking out Amo as the target. Within reason whatever happens this season I shall back Hughes. He has to deal with the team Souness put together - it looks more laughable to call him a football manger as each game goes by - and can't be truely judged until he (Hughesy) has moulded his own side.

Even though this is his side, the weird thing is that I can't see us having lost the game 4-0 if Souness was still here. We rarely got thrashed under Souness, only then to top sides (Arsenal and Liverpool both beat us 3-0 I seem to remember under Souness).

Not that I want him back or anything, just that these are worrying times for Rovers. Be optimistic all you like but I don't see too much reason to be...at least not before the January transfer window.

Edited October 18, 2004 by FourLaneBlue

[Hughesy]

I have to say 1st half – we were the better team.

After the break – it was inevitable what would happen, as soon as they got the 1st so early on, the heads dropped.

To make matters worse it was obvious it wasn’t to be our day when Youri missed a sitter and also had a goal cancelled out. Its football! It happens

As for player performances or tactics.

Reid – Played well but he should not of been playing were Emerton has been doing so good in recent weeks

Emerton therefore was out of position and therefore cannot be blamed for the defeat.

Tugay – Pathetic. Fair enough the 1st booking was a little harsh, but he was stupid to go for the tackle which saw him walk. Also if you watched it on Match of the Day he looked like he meant to do it and I don’t think he really was really that bothered about being sent off. He was like a spoiled baby who was in a bad mood and didn’t want to play ball.

The 1 man up front is not working and will not work against the majority of sides.

The premier league is ideal for 4-4-2, and 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 if you have the quality, which we don’t.

So we should be playing 4-4-2. Gallagher and Stead should be upfront. Yes Dickov puts in a lot of effort, just a shame he doesn’t put in as many goals.

The defence in the 1st half looked much improved and looked a lot more comfortable, 2nd half – Same old story – Crap!

But to be fair, the odds were stacked against us. We were playing against a very well organised side with 10 men thanks to Tugay.

I am very glad that Tugay cannot play in the next game as I think he is not good enough anymore and I have been saying this for weeks.

Reid should be tried on the left, and if that doesn’t work then Gresko or Pedersen can play there.

Emerton should be on the right as he has proven in the last few weeks.

[Paul]

True we rarely got thrashed under Souness - just beaten, week in, week out. He purchased crap players and left us to reap the whirlwind. The sooner Hughes can clear the whole lot out the better. These so called professional players are responsible for the club's predicament.

[Rovermatt]

Never a truer word spoken.

On Saturday I asked my brother wistfully about Jimmy's price-tag. Nothing apparently, he was free. Boro only pay his (large) wages. Why weren't we in there? We needed quality, instead we got powder-puff Dickov. It's so, so depressing.

[jim mk2]

. The sooner Hughes can clear the whole lot out the better. .

How can he clear out Souness's dross with little money to spend and the transfer window closed for ten weeks (by which time it might be too late anyway)?

Or do we have to accept relegation as inevitable in order to rebuild and start again?

If he did not know already, Hughes is now fully aware of the monumental task he has taken on in trying to save us from relegation.

If he is a manager for the next ten years, either with Rovers or elsewhere, this is the toughest test he will ever face. He is inexperienced and is going to have to learn very quickly.

The only way (as I see it) that we can avoid the drop is for Rovers to adopt Everton's old "dogs of war" approach and battle and scrap for every point. Every week. The trouble is our dogs are so old you can't teach them new tricks.