Stewarding and the club/fan relationship

[Sysagent]

Mmmmmm probably right

Edited October 17, 2004 by Sysagent

[Paul]

I've been in the corporate area at Old Trafford and there was no problem being an away fan there (of course there's never any reason to celebrate there!).

I've been in the corporate boxes at OT and endured abuse from the home boxes on either side every time Utd scored. The behaviour of the people in those boxes was quite appalling.

[Kiwiwannabe]

I wonder what it?s going to be like against Liverpool?

I am worried about what might happen against Liverpool. The whole of the Darwen End will be standing throughout the match and there will be plenty Liverpool fans in all the home areas.

[sausagemandog]

A good way of starting to solve these problems would be:

Either the club sack the Hitler chief steward who usually starts all the problems in the BB end (dont know his name but most BBenders know who i refer to)

Or they move him to steward the away fans, lets see if he really enjoys winding people up or is it just Rovers fans he enjoys goading.

[stuwilky]

Can I clarify who you mean?

Do you mean the supervisor - the guy with the short dark hair and orange jacket who wanders around with a short haired women?

Or do you mean the portly gent with dark glasses and a shirt and tie who stands with his hands on his hips and stares at people?

Edited October 17, 2004 by stuwilky

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

As the chant this afternoon suggested the club is s######'on its own fans. No action is being carried out against away supporters. And before someone says its difficult to control a thousand or so away supporters, they could start by sending stewards into the hospitality boxes.

I for one am sick and tired of the abuse given to Rovers supporters by the prawn brigade protected by their glass screens.

Surely the company which leases the box in question should be brought to book. They allowed a bunch of drunken smoggies to goad the fans directly in front of them in the BBE, resulting in a potentially dangerous situation. Put another way, it seems to me that the Boro "fans" in the corporate box incited a response from the supporters in the BBE, and disorder then followed. Incitement to disorder is a criminal offence, as is facilitating such incitement. Does anyone know, or have any way of finding out, to whom the box belonged?

Good call Morph,to put away supporters(even if they are behind glass) literally feet away from the home supporters in the most partisan section of Ewood is foolish to say the least.

[Glenn]

Going back to Modi's point about the importance of writing to the club rather than emailing them.

Try to include reference to the following passage from Rovers customer charter.

The Club endeavours to respond to any contact from a customer within 3 working days. If it is not possible to provide a full response to the issue raised within that time, an acknowledgement will be sent and a detailed response will follow within 14 days of receipt of the original communication. The Club responds by whatever method is appropriate taking into account the nature of the initial contact

However, I have sent dozens of emails to people at the club and the ONLY people that have ever replied are Lynsey Talbot (On behalf of JW and Lyndsey has responded to every email, promptly and efficiently) and Lee. Only Barbara McGee has failed to answer a written letter (and failed to return phone calls and forward requested information).

So go on, write now, right now !

PS It was intresting just how many sections of the Charter the club has managed to break in the last few years

[Glenn]

I can just imagine conversations with the ticket office.

Fan: Two Tickets for the Liverpool game please.

TO: They are only available to people who have a history of buying tickets, what's your address.

Fan: 1a Livsey Branch Road

TO: No problem, Blackburn End, CIS or Jack Walker.

Fan: Darwen End.

TO: Sorry Sir, Darwen End is reserved for Liverpool fans.

Fan: I'm aware of that, but I'd like to stand up for this game.

[Morph]

I would be interested to know which box it was that had the boro fans in that were being a nuisance.

Even a general location of the box (boxes?) in question would be appreciated..

i.e. Middle of the bburn end or the one far left / right in the corner etc.

The box was the third one in from the Jack Walker side of the Blackburn End.

Thinking that the first was empty

The second had the kids drawing on the window (and Stuart Caley for part of the second half)

And the third being the muppets.

Thanks for that.

I think I know who's box it is....

Don't know how I am going to broach the subject of our Corporate guests acting like complete tw*ts in our box to the M.D. of our company.

Seen as though I am pretty sure that the MD will have been there whilst they were doing the above.......

My advice, dont bother.

IF our club decide to take action let them do it.

Do that and nothing will change. Right now the club are part of the problem, and unless the fans alter the clubs way of thinking they are unlikely to become part of the solution anytime soon. I don't know what your company does Sysagent, but surely they are alienating potential customers by allowing this situation to develop. If you don't want to approach your MD personally (which is perfectly understandable) PM me your company address and I will write to him myself. By doing nothing we are tacitly enabling the club to treat us, the fans, like dirt at the moment.

The same applies with regard to stewarding. If the behaviour of the head steward is at issue then it is up to us to rectify things. Without wanting to politicise this messageboard, it seems to me to be the perfect place to mobilise support on this issue. With no official ties to the club, this board has always been of the fans, by the fans, for the fans. If enough of us were to voice our discontent with this individual then the club would be forced to act. If we continue to wallow in our apathy then the club will go on blithely pretending that nothing is wrong, and we will only have ourselves to blame for enabling them to do so.

[sausagemandog]

The guy i refer to earlier is the guy with short black hair who walks around with the woman and wear the yellow jacket. He is the main cause of all the problems.

[Glenn]

Good post Morph, but sadly the majority of people who are willing to have a good rant on here are too damned lazy and apathetic to actually get off their asses and do something (other than fire off the odd email).

If people ARE willing to get involved with this, then a few points need answering.

Did ayone on here see a steward or police officer assault a fan (by pushing him down the stair or otherwise) ?

Could you acurately describe the steward/polic officer ?

Could it be realistically be argued the fan fell ?

Does anyone know the fan who was ejected ?

Can anyone give any details of themselves being physically or verbally abused by any member of Rovers staff or Police Officer during the ejections ?

Could anyone describe exactly what the Boro fans in the box did that offended the fans in the BBE so much ?

So far, without answers to the above questions, all I can see that we have any argument with the club over is the need for a "Same Rules For Everyone" policy regarding both home and away fans being seated.

[den]

One further question Glenn - what caused the stewards to eject the rovers fans?

[thenodrog]

Going back to Modi's point about the importance of writing to the club rather than emailing them.

Try to include reference to the following passage from Rovers customer charter.

The Club endeavours to respond to any contact from a customer within 3 working days. If it is not possible to provide a full response to the issue raised within that time, an acknowledgement will be sent and a detailed response will follow within 14 days of receipt of the original communication. The Club responds by whatever method is appropriate taking into account the nature of the initial contact

However, I have sent dozens of emails to people at the club and the ONLY people that have ever replied are Lynsey Talbot (On behalf of JW and Lyndsey has responded to every email, promptly and efficiently) and Lee. Only Barbara McGee has failed to answer a written letter (and failed to return phone calls and forward requested information).

So go on, write now, right now !

PS It was intresting just how many sections of the Charter the club has managed to break in the last few years

Presumably there will be a better chance of receiving a reply if the email is sent to whoever and copied to John Williams. Failing that copy it to the LET. They are up Rovers arse for obvious reasons but they also struggle to fill the paper every night.

As for that twit John Newsham...... what a ferkin jobsworth he is! I had caue to bollock him a few years ago when at his insistance and for no goo reason the gates at the rear of the Riverside were kept closed at the end of games. It must have done some good cos it wasn't long before they were opened again.

BTW Dunno if its true but somebody told me that when the ground was being re-developed Newsham (who lived locally) was one of the chief objectors and main organiser of the local residents opposition to the plans and that he was given the advertised job to shut him up and control him.

[Paul]

Did ayone on here see a steward or police officer assault a fan (by pushing him down the stair or otherwise) ?

I saw a Rovers fan, with dark hair, in a dark blue jacket man-handled down the right hand side of the steps towards the stairwell by two police officers. As they got to the top of the stairwell he pulled away from one police officer who still had hold of his left arm. The fan then disappeared down the stairwell.

I don't know if this is the person you are thinking of.

[Glenn]

BTW Dunno if its true but somebody told me that when the ground was being re-developed Newsham (who lived locally) was one of the chief objectors and main organiser of the local residents opposition to the plans and that he was given the advertised job to shut him up and control him.

This is an alegation (which may well be unfounded, it's certainly not one this site is putting forward) that I have heard from several different sources.

[blue phil]

Blackburn and Darwen council insist that Blackburn Rovers enforce the no standing law throughout the season. Yes the away fans stand up but not the same people week in week out like in the home areas if you get my drift.

What people must understand is that it’s not a club directive but a local council directive and like elsewhere in the country local councils must ensure that this rule is enforced or risk sections of the ground closed for future games.

The question is how far the club and individual stewards should go in "enforcing" these rules . EVERYONE stands at football grounds at some stage whether it be for celebrating a goal ( a rarity at Ewood for home fans) or simply to get up and leave (usually early) . The vast majority of people stand at half time .

Either the club enforces the rules equally and sensibly in all parts of the ground , which would inevitably mean turning a blind eye in many instances or they start looking seriously at the main culprits in the Darwen End .

Blackburn (with Darwen) Council may very well insist on rules and regulations being strictly adhered to - that is what they are good at . The club should simply murmer a few platitudes at them and use their common sense at interpreting these (largely unenforceable) rules . The threat of closing the ground for non compliance is not an option the council , even this one , would seriously contemplate at present.

The perfect way of using their common sense would be for the club to transfer the relevant stewards to the Darwen End ......

[blue phil]

BTW Dunno if its true but somebody told me that when the ground was being re-developed Newsham (who lived locally) was one of the chief objectors and main organiser of the local residents opposition to the plans and that he was given the advertised job to shut him up and control him.

This is an alegation (which may well be unfounded, it's certainly not one this site is putting forward) that I have heard from several different sources.

Be careful , Theno . Potentially libelous allegations are treated very seriously on this site....

Edited October 17, 2004 by blue phil

[Glenn]

Too Right

[Morph]

...but sadly the majority of people who are willing to have a good rant on here are too damned lazy and apathetic to actually get off their asses and do something (other than fire off the odd email).

I agree entirely Glenn, a lot of it is down to apathy, but I think there are other contributory factors as well. Firstly there is the "nothing to do with me" mentality wich pervades some sections of the support; the idea that it's just a few scallies misbehaving and they bring it upon themselves. I would take issue with this. If the likes of Paul and other posters who have tried to remonstrate with over officious stewards can be threatened with ejection from the ground, then it is a problem for every single fan attending any given match.

Secondly there is an organisational question. Much as I hate to praise anything to do with ManUre, and much as I disagree with their tactics, the Manchester United Supporters Association were able to block Murdoch's attempts to take control of their club through coherent, planned action. We have no such group that I am aware of. The fans forum seems to exist at the whim of the club, insofar as the timetable for their meetings is set by the club rather than the fans (as far as I can tell from Kiwiwannabe's post - apologies if I am incorrect). It is also difficult to know whom to direct any complaints towards, especially if you are not au fait with the heirachy at Ewood.

Regarding the specifics of the incident on Saturday, I am in the other corner of the BBE so I can only go from the second hand reports which have appeared on here, but it seems grossly unfair that one set of fans should be punished and the other let off scot free (if that is what happened). The wider issue of over zealous stewarding is one which should be of concern to all Rovers fans (and indeed the club itself, given the recent slump in support). The vast majority of Rovers fans are decent, hard working people. We shouldn't accept being treated like children (at best) or criminals (at worst) every Saturday simply because we want to watch a game of football.

[14/5/95]

Fans that Stand... the bane of my elderly mother's life as a BBE season ticket holder. She no longer goes to games because she missed half the game due to being forced to look at someones back end rather than her beloved Rovers. Move to a more sedate area of the ground you say... Why should she?

But, as much as that saddens me I am absolutely furious at the way home fans are treated by the club and am not surprised by the levels of anger I saw yesterday.

- Liverpool fans WILL get tickets in the home ends on 30th yet I have to give chapter & verse if I want to upgrade my son's season ticket to an adult (In the family stand). If I wanted to sit with the opposition and endure abuse I'd buy a ticket in the Darwen end.

- As a season ticket holder it cost me more last season than if I were to buy tickets for each game and take advantage of the clubs offers. Mind you...bonus of all bonuses .... I get first refusal on away games, sure sell outs..... - don't make me laugh!

Wake up & smell the coffee Mr Williams. S****ing on your own fans? Yes, from a great height.

.... Oh, I forgot the half price hot drink & hotdog combo! Thanks!

[Glenn]

Whilst I fully agree with the sentiment of your post, I have to question a couple of bits.

Liverpool fans WILL get tickets in the home ends on 30th yet I have to give chapter & verse if I want to upgrade my son's season ticket to an adult (In the family stand). 

But how many more would get them if people didn't have to give chapter and verse.

I do however believe that the Liverpool game WILL be powder keg. However I'm convinced that for once the ground will be full and every Rovers fan that wants a ticket can get one.

If I wanted to sit with the opposition and endure abuse I'd buy a ticket in the Darwen end.

If you sat in the Darwen End you'd been the only one and you'd spend 90 mins looking as some scousers arse

As a season ticket holder it cost me more last season than if I were to buy tickets for each game and take advantage of the clubs offers

Assuming you attended every home game and are talking about the same seat, can you explain HOW you came to this figure ? With only one seriously reduced price home game last season I simply can't see how this was the case (it's simply not possibly with just the reward card).

The only way I know this may be possible was some stupid fool in the TO giving the completed reward cards back to customers who then claimed free tickets EVERY week and people buying the £15 CIS outer tickets and moving seats.

Mind you...bonus of all bonuses ....  I get first refusal on away games, sure sell outs..... - don't make me laugh!

So, you'll be leaving your Man City Away tickets until they go on open sale then ?

Wake up & smell the coffee Mr Williams. S****ing on your own fans? Yes, from a great height.

I have a feeling this isn't down to JW (although he obviously has the power to stop it, as has to quickly), it seems Mr Newsome is the driving force behind this new zero tolerence policy.

[Billinge End Blue]

<<Fans that Stand... the bane of my elderly mother's life as a BBE season ticket holder. She no longer goes to games because she missed half the game due to being forced to look at someones back end rather than her beloved Rovers. Move to a more sedate area of the ground you say... Why should she?>>

14/5/95 - it wasn't your Mum who used to start the chants on the Blackburn End with 'Give us a B...etc', 'You are my sunshine...' and 'I was born....etc'?

Also, why is sitting in the Blackburn End more important to her than watching her team?

Even in the Blackburn End there are some seats where no one could obscure your view (over the vomitories or even with the percussion section on the front row somewhere). Incidentally, why are they not obliged to remain seated by the stewards?!?

Do all you can to get her back on (she could even act as a spotter for the stewards)!

[stuwilky]

- As a season ticket holder it cost me more last season than if I were to buy tickets for each game and take advantage of the clubs offers. Mind you...bonus of all bonuses .... I get first refusal on away games, sure sell outs..... - don't make me laugh!

Ive done the maths on here numerous times so I shant bother again. Suffice to say that it was around £70 cheaper to buy a season ticket last season than to purchase individual match tickets for every game.

Its obviosuly not much different this season, although we no longer have category C matches.

[roversmum]

Did ayone on here see a steward or police officer assault a fan (by pushing him down the stair or otherwise) ?

I saw a Rovers fan, with dark hair, in a dark blue jacket man-handled down the right hand side of the steps towards the stairwell by two police officers. As they got to the top of the stairwell he pulled away from one police officer who still had hold of his left arm. The fan then disappeared down the stairwell.

I don't know if this is the person you are thinking of.

I saw this as well and was absolutely furious at the way the fan was manhandled - naturally he was struggling!

I am going to write to John Williams - has anyone any problem if I quote posts (no names)? I really want to get across how strongly everyone is feeling. I suggest others do the same. I really believe the consequences of all this could have a hugely detrimental effect on our club and damage limitation is needed urgently.

Mr Roversmum has asked for an emergency fans forum but no feedback if that will happen yet.

I spent about 10 minutes bending a steward's ear after the match; shame was he is one of the decent ones!

Edited October 17, 2004 by roversmum

[stuwilky]

In a way I actually feel sorry for the stewards themselves. ESpecially that lad who mans the stairwell in No1 - he just does what he is told.

What he does do however is bring a lot on himself, he doesnt have the ability to take the banter, he gets all on his high horse. He even gave me dirty looks at half time as I walked up their stairs back to the stand. Poor little lad.