TND - Think you'll find most of those you called 'whingeing' where around way before the great man himself stepped in. What people are expressing is their concerns, all of which have been heard before because there was great worry at the time of previous discussions - Hughes came in and steadied the ship but yet again we appear to be going backwards instead of forwards. As I mentioned last season about us only carrying on so far with the negative tactics (much as I what I said about Souness last resort tactics) we are still doing it - and as Cheeky Siders (I think) has said - the 4-5-1 might have made us harder to beat and saved us last season, it has not stopped us from losing (why can't friggin managers see this?) Scotty, that one liner post is probably the most useless post I have read from you on here and your posts are normally the most balanced, I suggest you read MB post above (You know each other don't you ) because I think you have fell into the rut of the 4-5-1 system. Personally, I feel we have got the players (bar 1) to get something from this season but with the style we are adopting at the moment we have no chance. I am not into all this tactical rubbish, football is about winning or trying to a t least and until we wake up and realise this the only way we are going is down. This is how I see it:- Friedal/Neill (only beacuse nobody else)Todd/Nelsen/Tugay/Bellamy/ Pedersen/Bentley (if played on the right) are must starters when fit- Matteo at LB if only for continuity (IMO he has done ok) and we adopt the 442 home and away regardless. If we get beat we get beat - but I bet a pound to a dollar we would get more points this way rather than what we are adopting at the moment as well as making it more pleasing to the eye of the fans. -------GK------- RB CB CB LB -------CM------ -------STR------ (BACKBONE) Continuity and balance with players in their normal positions with a recognisable backbone - what should be the foundations for any team. There was a good point earlier (forgot who mentioned it at the moment) - but instead of all the fancy gadgets how about Hughes getting the team to learn how to pass/move/control/shoot/take freekicks -it beggars belief that these are things the fans can see we are very poor at yet somehow the people that matter can't.

I think it hurts alot of us Den but how long do you give it.? Fans are being ripped off from every direction for what ...? Our answer for that is (or it used to be) ah but you never know what's going to happen which is what Football is (was) all about - now its all what I would term manufacturey, plasticy false and way too expensive - its not a sport anymore. Your fears are well confirmed going off what I heard coming off (early as with many others) yesterday - there where some pretty p##### off people and there cries of not coming back (for a long time) where very genuine and I feel they have evry justification for feeling that way.

I don't think people are giving up - just not being as committed (they have drawn the line for the time being) and just fed up with football in general, its just Rovers are not helping the matter and unless things start to improve there will be alot more dissatisfied fans. I have seen us at a lower mantle than where we are at the moment, but not as clueless and then there was always hope and it was enjoyable for the most part.

I don't think it is Den My love of football is dieing - however my love for Rovers isn't, however it is flat at the moment and is filled with anger and disappointment - not so because of the players (except one who is useless) but what is so basically obvious and frustrating and is a general mentality througout football, managers in particular and its just driving me up the wall and its doing my head in. Football is a simple game - why complicate it and burden it Its also become very boring and not enjoyable. I thought I would never say this- but I am not bothered if we win or lose on Wednesday.

Its not just one game though is it. Sorry folks but I won't be there either - and you know something, I ain't bothered. In fact if it wasn't for my S/T I probably wouldn't be going on for a while. Enough is enough.

Well you can add a few more to the declining numbers going off what people where saying coming off yesterday 'they'll not be seeing me back down ere for a while - £30 quid to watch that plie of @#/?'- and that was before the end - and there where quite alot. Well done Rovers - fancy words about realising the problems at home but not backing it up with anything

Years ago I promised myself that I would never walk off a game - now within the last year I have walked off in disgust 3 times. Yesterday ended up an embarrassment and worst of all very worrying - especially about Mark Hughes. As I said in my earlier post - we had to go with 2 up front especially with their dodgy defence - which as we all know certainly didn't happen. As mentioned by many, we huffed and we puffed and we where by far the better side - in fact Newcastle where just downright rubbish( the worst I have seen for many a year), however we did not create any chance/shot on goal worthy of mention aside from the freekick in the first half - so how the hell can Hughes and many on here say we created chances FFS????????????????????? The promise is that we would be a more attacking side this season - and as far as I am concerned this has not happened - Hughes is lying. What really galls me is that we can see it yet again as Fans, so why can't the friggin manager? In addition, Souness will probably feel his tactics won them the game yesterday. The game was there for the taking yet the starting line up was all wrong, and I don't even know where Bentley was supposed to be playing (don't think he did either). Four games without a goal and Hughes is not worried - says it all really. We have got big big big problems, and I don't think we can rectify them at present - there is a mindset of negativety that has set in and is reflected in our style of play or should I say lack of it which is all pointing towards relegation. Alot of what many have been saying/dreading on here are now coming home to roost. And just for the record - no I won't be there either on Wednesday either.

Agree 1864, but I still feel anything above £20 is too much for a game of football of 90 mins Think it was either Den or Paul but £10 -£15 should be the max

Catch up Laurence but be careful not to tweek anything

Being an Bash/Accy Lad now langushing (eek) in Wigan Numerous meetings with Gillespie /Duff/ Tosser Sherwood and his playmate Fox around the Accy hostelries as well as many a Dingle player inc Peyton. Had a few Sherberts with Dunn and Jansen few years back sub the Palace (I think) game start of Season. Not a player but met the great man himself Mr Walker in the toilets of all places in the what I think is called the Railway Hotel prior to the FA Cup game at Crewe some years back. Also non footballer - but topical at the moment Shane Warne (arrogant sod) when he was doing the rounds (lasses) at Accy in his earlier years. Played football also with Martin Chivers whilst on holiday in my youngster days.

Good post RR- and words to the effect that Paul (primarily amongst others) has been reflecting upon over the last year or so. Nearly reads word for word how I feel as well (including the young son) and probably could be reflected on many a fan. Doubt I would go watching elsewhere though unless it related to watching my youngster as he gets older, which will probably more than likely happen - but then again Football will probably have died by then so it would probably be for something else. This honestly does bring tears to my eyes So how many Lee - because people I know have not had any letters?

Beat me to it 1864 Thought exactly the same when I read Lampards comments about the non attendance Chelsea fans last night. There was a good discussion on Century last night and the phone in's - but what pisses me off is now people are noticing the gaps in the other clubs that something is wrong with football - yet we have been going on about this for a while, and as we are well aware has affected Rovers as a club badly - yet all we have got over the last year is a stigma of a poorly supported club without looking into the reasons in context. As I pointed out at the time of the FA Cup Semi Final - the things people have missed is that Rovers fans have been the less naive and stupid THAN OTHER CLUBS and decided enough was enough and voted with their feet for some time.

Now where have seen this before Personally I feel this will come down to what formation we play - play with some attacking nous and the Geordie rearguard will crumble - play negatively and I feel that Souness will have the last laugh. We need to go at them. As for the score - will leave until later this week

Yep one at one end and one at t'other Is Bellamy back then or not?

Can't believe your surprised Not been on here for a while or listened to or read any Football related media?

But that's only at the moment Philipl- if a limit is agreed upon to the number of 'non-Brits' as before this would soon sort itself out. Not everybody can play for the Utd and Chelski's of this world so the players would have to start seriously thinking about what they wanted to do.

Wrong answer Chesh - they can do something its just nobody wants to stick their neck out first or are just plain blind and oblivious to what is happening. Put it another way - if they don't do something - it will be sorted out for them anyway by supply and demand (the fans) They elected to go down this road - if some't clubs are not willing to take stock, eg the Arses /Chelskis and Urinals - the other clubs should have enough power as a collective to start their own breakaway or something.

Alan75 That has to be without doubt one of the best and of most common sense postings ever on this board and deserves gold status. Think you should mail it to a couple of the footy mags editors and websites.

We ll it worked last week so I'll try this weekalthough I can't see a victory. Realistic 2 v 0 Villa - Villa looking for first win and Baras looking to impress. Us not having the normal backline set up and probably no forward line, which even with Kuqi fit he doesn't look even like scoring when given the chance- also with the possibility of Tugay being left out and no likelihood of goals coming from midfield unless Pedersen conjures up something Optimistic 0 v 0 /1 v1- Tugay plays, we have a fairly decent record there, Savage has never lost when playing against them - but still can't see us scoring unless Jansen gets a chance.

Don't know about anybody else but this reminds me of Drooper from the Banana Splits

The draw is on Saturday according to Gaby Roslin. Champions League tomorrow For all our possesion on Saturday it was still a poor Fulham side that we made hard work of beating, and Spurs will be a totally different opposition. For all Kuqi's huffing and puffing on Saturday, he looked bereft of the requirements of a Striker for the Premiership but something endears me too him. Doubt he will score with just himself up front but I think he will complement a fit Bellamy very well. With Spurs yet to concede, and keeping a blank against a better forward line up of Boro compared to ours I would concede a defeat - however considering we are at home and on a bit of boost from a win, a draw looks the most likely outcome. 3 V 3 Shearer and Klinsmann hatricks

Since when has she been our enemy?? And anyway when have you felt the air 'getting hot' on a Saturday night, other than with Rovers performance that day (or shouldn't I ask) PS - I bet you can do the dance as well

That's the thing Den /Oz- there isn't only one Put up an argument for one side and something will happen that puts a question mark against it. However, all rolled together and the interest as we see happening now begins to wane.

This is the be all and end all, which I have said before Rovers have managed to contribute to themselves. Add this to the sterilisation of the game , standard of refereeing, attitude of players, players salaries, agents, overkill of the game on TV, 'new breed of fan' and cheaper alternatives, social communities or lack of it, FA/UEFA and the structure of the game etc. etc etc etc Take your pick but all contribute in some way or other and snowballed into one are creating the problems/ dissatisfaction we are seeing now.

Mmmm - know something we don't p32