whats shocking about that is that you have not even included Gresko or Spector. We need to start selling soon, bloody hell.

Deathwish, Flopsy, deathwish.

I can completely understand why Birmingham are ###### off. Their best player and captain has handed in a transfer request to move down the table. This board would be in uproar if Ferguson did that to us, ailing parents or not.

Could be a very interesting game.....

Exactly, you can judge who you like personally, but the true point is how many people like them. I hate to admit this, but using that guage, the Spice Girls are one of the greatest musical acts ever. Nonsense, you cannot critique things that way. It is just rank popularism. Say the majority of people were hooked on heroin and they loved it I think it would still be acceptable to say it was a terrible thing. I would also think it would be an easily defensible judgement, indee ultimately correct one, that Shakespear is a more entertaining cultural figure than the spice girls, despite being (probably) less appreciated in general. It is a funny thing, a bit like morality. Everybody knows they shouldnt steal and to not often make an argument for justyfying it on a general level. However some individuals sometimes cannot control their base urges or conspire to commit wrong for the pleasure of satisfying them. What I am saying is listening to the spice girls, or indeed heavy metal, equates to theft.

No chance if its 1-0. Only way he will get a game is if we score another or they score one or two. Personally I just want to see us win.

ANybody found a feed for the game on free premiership? Palace are on ESPN.

I am definately in the bring a few of the rested players in camp: Thompson, Gallagher, Pedersen, Tugay (is he fit?) should all get a look in even if just from the bench. Thompson and Gallaghers ability to run and run should see them start in place of Stead and one of Reid/Emerton. Also, If there was ever a time to give MGP a crack, this is it. My crazy team I realise this is a bit extreme and I am not suggestung it should stay this way- our midfield has been performing very well- but we have a huge squad so we should try and use it to our advantage in games like this.

I was a big fan of him in his successfull years but I have never seen anyone so proud and willing to let personal grievences affect his job so much. The only manager who really works in a similar way is Alex Ferguson but he has the luxery of having enough cash to replace those thrown out of the club (Beckham, Stam etc.) and better judgement in picking players. What I cant understand is at Rovers to begin with he played an excellent system of a tight defence, technically gifted midifeld and talented forwards. Fair enough, he inherited Dunn, Duff, Berg and Jansen but he brought in Thompson, Tugay, Cole and Yorke to further this style of play. Yet he progressively abadoned this and developed a new philosophy of putting "eleven real men" on the field irrespective of their ability to play together. I defended it at the time but you have to hold your hands up and say it was nothing less than lunacy. I thought he might of learned his leason by Newcastle and Blackburn's rapid decent under this policy but he was still singing the same tune yesterday in a media interview. Newcastle have got major problems. He might pull them out of the rut but he will slowly take apart the squad and I guarantee he will spend a fortune on average players. ps. As a side point I think we are playing now exactly as Souness intended in the post Duff era. A hard working midfield defending and attacking as a unit- Indeed when Emerton, Reid, Ferguson and Flitcroft are out on the pitch I doubt there is a midfield in the premeirship with that high a work rate. Hughes was quite fortunate in inheriting players who suit his type of tactics and management. What was bizarre was that if Souness wanted his team to play like that why didnt he get their fitness up to scratch?

Hang on a bit MCM1875. Surely the gain is to sell Ferguson in order to procure the services of Savage, Gabbidon and Hartson. I would argue tha we would not really be a better side with Savage, Hartson and Gabbidon. We definately would be a better side with Ferguson, Savage and a new striking alternative. I do not feel that Hartson or Gabbidon would guarantee scoring more goals and conceding less. Plus Savage and Hartson will be worth nothing in a season and a halfs time. Ferguson should still be at the very least worth that three million (providing no injuries etc)

While I agree with you that Ferguson will never reach the dizzy heights of Gerrard, Duff, Shearer, Viera etc I still think you are selling him a bit short. He is a creator and a grafter and he has had little to work with in terms of movement or coherance upfront. I think he has it well within him to be as good as players like Hargreaves, Jenas, Gravesen, Parker even Makelele given the chance. The acid test will be after the window when he has (hopefully) a quality partner and a proficent striker to play with Dickov. ps. The one thing that does annoy me about him is that sometimes he dosnt seem to want to stamp his authority on a game like he quite plainly could. I dont mean he shirks the ball or anything just he goes about his business in a very low key way.

Ferguson, despite not really setting the world alight yet, is our most talented player and what the team will be built around. To sell him and reshuffle the side is just asking for trouble no matter how much cash we get. He was, at least on current evidence, not quite worth the money we paid and has been nowhere near as influencial as Tugay or Duff in their pomp but the fact remains that if we want to get back where we were three years ago we need to keep him. With a good central midfield partner and better striking options he should be able to become the lynchpin we want. To sell and even get nine million would be not guarantee improvement. We would have to go out to the market again and then wait for the team to settle again. Hughes will do everything he can to keep him.

Its a good point that, we have one of the largest squads in the division at the moment so we could rotate a bit. Pedersen, Gallagher, Gray, Jansen, Tugay etc. are all capable of putting in a game without performing awfully. Major benefits could be reaped from using fresh legs.

We are obviously a very hard team to play at the moment. One loss in eight games. Plus it is fair to say that mostl of those games we have looked the better side. Should have picked up three points today and a Everton last week. Nonetheless it will be a completely different kettle of fish against Bolton due to their directness and reliance on set pieces. We are awful at defending freekicks and so on so I expect we might get a bit of a kicking in that department. Another 2-2 draw.

Check out the stats:- Rovers: 11 shots, 1 Goal Newcastle: 2 shots, 2 Goals Typical.....

So many still refer to the Rovers performance against Spurs as being awful but its obvious now that they have won 4 on the bounce and annhialated Soton that they were playing earlier this season to get Santini sacked. Our biggest problem was timing, if we had played em 2 wks earlier we would prob have had 3 more points. It'll be interesting to see where they finish and a lot will depend on them keeping King and Defoe away from Arse and Chelsea and Keane away from Everton in January. Never shy of your own trumpet TND..... Seriously while i agree that we lack strikers which come anywhere near the quality of Spurs' strikeforce we are decent i most other areas. I would stick my neck out and say that, Ledley King aside, the rest of the Spurs squad is much of a muchness with ours (Carrick, Davis,Brown etc promise much but are not really firing yet). Indeed I would say that Ferguson would walk into their team and I reckon they would give Emerton a crack at their left side (he was actually connected with them recently) and their full backs seemed as bad as ours, in fact Niell was the best FB on the pitch by a distance. The idea that we are poor all over the pitch in the way that Southampton, West Brom and Palace are is a myth. We have some great players, especially in midfield, while the likes of Todd and Reid have really come good. Gallagher promises alot, Dickov works hard but frankly we lack confidence and power up front. Hughes will be licking his lips. Two or three quality signings and the injection of some belief in the side and we have the potential to rocket up the table. He has, as you said yourself, made us hard to beat and will now look at the attacking side of the game. Can people give the "oh God, we are so awful" a rest....... it is just not true.

Thats a great post Bryan, but there is an additional element to it I think. Reid and Emerton work very hard and are defensively sound while providing a moderate attacking threat. I would imagine the fear is that MGP might not be able to perform defensively as well due to his sleder physique and more attacking mentality. With a relatively lightweight midfield pairing of Ferguson and Tugay, even Flitcroft cant throw himself around that well these days, it might be a major concern that we will find it hard to get posession in the first place and our left in particular- with so many problems at full back too- could be dangerously exposed. I am sure these factors are working against MGP too.

My central point is that we have easily as good a squad of players as everton, charlton, bolton. The difference is how effectively we use them. We do need a good striker and a good partner for Ferguson but there is no defence in saying we have poor players. The simple truth is while none of them are world beaters they are of a similar standard to those available to around 10 of the other Prem teams. I personally feel chucking five or six first teamers out and having a massive reshuffle over January would do far more harm than good.

I seem to be a to be at odds with most of the MB here but I think we have an extremely decent sqaud. Friedel, Todd, Short, Ferguson, Emerton, Reid and Dikov have all looked like players who would get into, even walk into, most of our rivals sides. On top of that Niell, Gray (frozen out though), Gallagher Tugay, Thompson have all looked good at varying stages. We need a couple of additions but in real terms the only difference between our team and that of 2002 is Berg, Duff and Cole. And that has been arguably mitigated, if not absolved, by Ferguson and Dikov. You can complain all you like but if the squad assasination recomended on this board every week when we lose actually happend we would not have a team at all. Any decent manager would be able to work wonders with our squad and a small transfer budget. We arguably posess more overall quality than Everton- they might have found in their transferless misery a team solidatity which we sadly lack. If you lot were TOffees you would of had them all out last year after their disasterous performance. We will stay up even if we dont buy a player. Hopefully we will and do much better than that. Naieve? Bugger off you whingers, salute them as heroes one week and slag them off the next if you like. Rome was not built in a day.

What the hell has Todd done wrong? First name on the team sheet at the moment (well after Brad, Ferguson and Dickov)

Uh, I really dont see how you criticise the Rovers effort. Everybody seemed to work hard. The general consensus was a lack of imagination which I would concur with. I think Brad is right that it is a one off. They closed us down and didnt let our wingers move- hopefully Hughes is working a way round that.

I really feel that DM and CB are the only areas where we can be certain of getting better quality than we already have. Plus a good central midfielder would revolutionise the team, allowing Ferguson to get forward and providng our much mialigned defence with some cover (Browns run a good example of where this was lacking). So on that note- a decent DM: Sean Davis or Parker on loan, or someone like those players. Perhaps living in dream world, but Im more concerned by the type of player than the actual individual. CB: Really dont know but someone like a younger version of Short but quicker. And, although I doubt we will have the cash, a RB to back up for Niell. If we rely on Reid there we could be very defensively shakey.

Personally I feel we will win this one. Unchanged side apart from the reintroduction of Gray at left back. Gallagher to retain his place as he should get more space- I cant see Palace being as tight as Spurs although i am sure they will try to emulate them. I would like to see MGP on the bench. 3-1 Rovers

I think we will roll them over. If we can keep the work rate up we should easily beat them- we have players of amuch higher quality than Cardiff. Despite the defeat yesterday Hughes has got the commitment and performance of the players significantly improved- the only way we could lose a game like this is if we lose our cohesion and ethic. That should not happen, hopefully......

The difference between us winning and losing yesterday was Michael Brown's run to set up the goal and our wingers getting no space behind their fullbacks. Tottenham's discipline won that match, against other sides (even the spurs of three weeks ago) we would of been extremely effective. Jim and Rev etc. all moan about how they see no commitment in the team, I do not see how they could have possibly been disappointed on that front yesterday.