joey_big_nose

Yeah statistically that we still haven't had an English manager win the premier league after 32 years is insane. I am actually struggling to think how many English managers have qualified for the Champions League? THis list from 2022 is pretty amazing. Over 30 years of CL only eight English managers have been in charge of a CL game... https://www.90min.com/posts/every-englishman-manage-the-champions-league I mean there is something really f***ed up about that? How has that happened? Probably the biggest factor is that we don't export managers to other countries, which then I guess links back to English people not being comfortable learning languages. And that you get paid more for lower down clubs in England so no need to move for money. And that English clubs have the resources to bring in the best global talent. But still it's an absolutely mad stat....

I'm not against a foreign manager, but I do also wonder if a short term club manager is a good idea. Most of the best international coaches over the last 20 years have tended not to be club managers dipping into a bit of international management. They tend to be people who are part of the international setup long term. Would Tuchel, Klopp etc commit long term to the England job? I have my doubts. Potter or Howe might. I think to be successful as an international manager it's a multi year building job shaping the team and the style.

The biggest positive to the tournament was Guehi. Centre back has been a real problem position for us but he looks top class. We can put centre half to bed for a bit, and foucus on who plays left wing which is our biggest issue by far. We never fixed it.

I am a big Southgate fan, and think he's unarguably England's second best ever manager.... but if the idea is we need a new philosophy and identity etc surely putting him in a director would be the wrong choice? If we are going to change (and I think we should) then we need to commit to the change? Hanging onto Southgate in whatever role would not make sense imo.

I think England are going to continue to struggle whoever is appointed... How does he fit together Belligham, Foden, Palmer and Kane? Cant drop them as if he does gets bollocked for not picking the best players by media and fans and the slightest adverse performance causing a epic meltdown, but if we play them we end up with a team with four number 10s and no width or proper striker. Its Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes all over again....

Really dont think thats true, Spain have players as good as ours. Theyve consistently been excellent through the tournament. The team of the tournament will be mostly Spanish players. The Spanish manager I think might pick Walker, Bellingham and Stones from our squad into his XI but thats it imo. Kane wasnt fit and he needed the pressing Kane cant do anyway. No way is he taking Rice, Foden, Saka over his options. Im not saying England have bad players but saying we have better players than Spain is daft.

Id say they have a squad about as good as Englands but much better ballance in terms of how their top talent is distributed across the positions. England really suffer from having all their best players wanting to play as number 10s. Yamal, Williams, Rodri, Fabian and Olmo are such a balanced set of players to work together. Whoever comes in as manager needs to find a way to get that balance, and will need to drop big names to get it.

But it is quite new to regularly get that far!

Hmm I do think we do quite significantly overrate our own players... How many of them would Germany, France, Spain take off us? No more or less than we would take off them. Its a decent squad but no better than those teams imo. We're acting like we should win it with the players we have and I just have never seen it. Were in the conversation but to win it we need not only good players but a well balanced effective system.We haven't found that.

Id say Southgate is definitely our second best manager ever but its time for a change. I think he thinks that too.

I agree Kane shouldn't have started but I don't think anyone else coming in would have materially changed the result. Watkins had 30 mins and didnt worry them too much. In the longer term the key thing for us is we have the material now to win things with a lot of good players, but we need to figure out how we play to best use those talents, and really knit together a team and style like Spain did in 2008 (or seemingly now) or Germany in 2014. Im not sure if Southgate is the right manager for that. I suspect not (and that he will quit anyway) but also suspect if we try and hire someone in it will go tits up. England do feel at a bit of a crossroads. Next appointment is key.

Yeah Spain were class. I think we played pretty well, better than I expected.

Everyone has done well except Kane who has struggled with to keep up with the game... I think there is a chance we may hook him now or round 60 mins.

Or more likely we lose tomorrow, Southgate moves on, and in 10 years time we look back and say "actually compared to everyone else Southgate was brilliant"

Yeah hes looked pretty jaded, reckon he will quit and take a break irrespective of the result.

I'd defo have Morata over Kane... part of what makes Spain so good is that he keeps running all game stretching defences, he's been absolutely relentless. Bellingham has been mediocre for England, no way he gets in, Olmo or Pedri defo ahead of him. Saka vs Williams is a very close call, nothing in it. Agree on Walker. Don't think there is much between the rest of the back four and keeper on either side.

If we win it (big if) the best england manager imo. Hes had luck with the draws, but until this tournament did not actually have that many good players established at the top level. That he has the record he has (more successful in knockout than every manager 1967 to 2018 put together, more finals than all england managers put together etc) whilst also not having that great a team till recently would put him as the best imo as long as he can add trophy. But he has to win it against a brilliant Spanish side to achieve that status.

Wow, those ratings are very harsh imo, no way Trippier, Rice and Bellingham get 5s?? We weren't fabulous but definitely deserved the win and had a great first half.

To be honest without even thinking about goals or even having the ball I think we need Watkins just for the pressing. I dont think we can afford to have Kane jogging around at 2 mph.

Crikey, theyve won every game (never been done before) and solidly beat Crotia, Italy, Germany and France on the way. In comparison we've struggled through all games until last night ,and while we deserved to win against the Dutch they were in all honesty not very good compared to Germany, France etc. Spain are a great side. We've always got a chance, but lets not delude ourselves that we have nothing to fear!

Nah, Spain are lightyears ahead of anyone we've played. Way better than anyone in this tournament. Probably overall one of the best teams in tournament history to be brutally honest. Should beat us easily. If we win it (and in football you always have a chance) it.will be the one of the greatest England result of all time imo. I will be watching hoping!

It would take some balls but there is an argument to drop Kane, start Watkins and bring Kane on later in the game....

England totally in control, Dutch apart from a wonderful goal have been woeful. If it stays the same way second half then England should win it. I imagine Dutch will change something though, cant continue to be that bad.

Id say our defence is worse but we have much better options going forward. Also in Rice we have a top enforcer in midfield which we haven't had since Batty and Ince retired.

To be fair everyone has the capacity to qualify for the tournament irrespective of the how large the final tournament was. In effect while the end tournament was much smaller everyone still played a full group round to get there... so actually to say that you can't compare 2024 to 1988 I am not really sure. For example the qualifying groups in 1988 looked like the below.. and if anything it was maybe "easier" as in the qualifying you got to play home and away so less vulnerable to a freak result rather than the single games in the host country in the group in the tournament.