joey_big_nose

Given the suspensions and injuries looks like we will have to go to 3 at the back? Wonder if we could go back to how we played at WC 2018 and ask Palmer to do the Stirling/Son role and run beyond Kane? Pickering Walker. Stones. Konsa TAA. Bellingham Rice. Foden Saka Palmer. Kane. Feels like it could work? We've got a whole week to prepare and it's a system we have used previously so feels doable.

Great stat on bbc five live - Southgate has now won more knockout games than all England managers 1967 to 2016 put together (!!).

I dont buy it personally, all our good players are central attacking mids really including Kane. Same as the "golden generation", just not a balanced outfit.

The pub just gave us a free shot for making extra time....! Thought we defended poorly but were okay (by our own poor standard) going forward without finishing anything in the first 60 mins but last 30 mins of the game we have been atrocious... Really very lucky to still be in it.

Thought we played the best we have going forward but very bad at the back... If its not one its the other it seems.

Love to get Southgates thoughts on why trying essentially the same approach again after three goes will work? I predict at halftime we will be saying no left side at all, congested in the middle and playing in front of Slovakian defenders, lack of runners beyond Kane... Looking forward to being proven wrong.

Hmmm coming round to this idea. Hes played false 9 at Madrid, would mean one less player congesting the number 10 role with Kane taken out. But.. as bad as Kane has been Bellingham has been worse last two games, and Kane has the scoring record as well as captain. If we had to pick one to keep their place I think it would be Kane.

Hes not good enough on the ball to be the deepest midfield player, he has improved hugely playing advanced of Jorginho in the Arsenal midfield. Hes all about energy and physicality, not spreading the play and incisive passing. Need an expansive player sitting deeper. I assumed that was the plan with Trent but he was further forward than Rice whenever hes played. Similarly Mainoo has always come on to get beyond Rice in the middle.... Its an issue. I imagine Mainoo will start today but again in the number 8 role... Still the left side is the number one issue imo. Has to be solved with urgency. Whats frustrating we did look so much better when Gordon and Palmer came on last game but the signs are we will go back to Foden coming inside again.

Hmmm.... I think if we picked a combined Croatia vs England XI in 2018 it would probably be roughly even, and in Modric they had the best individual player in the sides by quite a long way. I think claiming that England a failure not to win is not at all fair based on the teams. We're a much larger nation population wise, but in terms of who was on the pitch that day it was an even quality game. That Croatia team not only got to the final in 2018 but also came third in 2022, beating Argentina (2018) and Brazil (2022) on the way... He definitely got the best from players we know from their subsequent careers to not be top international players (Pickford, Maguire, Lingard, Alli, Young, Sterling, Henderson, Trippier), not sure how we could claim otherwise. Theres a question over if he can get the most out of Bellingham, Rice, Foden etc but we are still in this tournament so he has to solve that today and (hopefully) following games.

I dont think Lineker has said anything different than 90% of fans and commentators have said including on this venerable messageboard!

I did also have a cheeky look to see what England's knockout stage was like in 1966 and see if that could be accused of being soft too! But fair to say no... QF : Argentina, SF : Eusebio's Portugal, Final : Beckenbaeur's West Germany. Doing it the hard way!

Yeah, Southgate gets a lot of grief but his record is fantastic with the players he has had available... His only real world class player he has had access to until 2022 is Kane. I guess Kyle Walker, though I think him being put into that highest echelon has only really happened in the last couple of years. But a very modest squad generally beyond those players. The full team in the w/c 2018 semi : Pickford, Maguire, Stones, Walker, Ashley Young (as a left back!!!), Henderson, Alli, Lingard, Kane, Sterling. Lots of really solid Premier League team players, but few who you would really say were top class and get into a Real Madrid, Barcelona, France XI. This year he does have a lot more talent so obviously expectations are higher. But he has consistently met or beaten expectations I think every tournament he has gone into, I don't think anyone realistically thought we should beat France in the last WC, and before that we made a Semi-Final and a Final. Fair enough soft draws... But then if we are being picky 1990 we didn't play one of the big nations until the semis either.

I think Bellingham will keep trying to get into the 10 position wherever he is deployed in the formation. If he can play the deeper role then great... But everything about him suggests he'll bomb on

Yeah agreed... I was against going to 343 and playing Saka left wing back but we have to do it as I can't see how we decongest the number 10 area. It all points to dropping Bellingham - he's been really poor since the first half against Serbia. Kane has to play due to his record, we need Palmer and Gordon on for their forward runs - they will get beyond Kane which Bellingham and Foden won't do. Foden has been better but again how do you get him where he needs to be with Kane dropping in where Foden's playing. Only option apart from dropping Bellingham and Foden is to not bring in Mainoo and ask one of them to play alongside Rice but I don't think Southgate will do that in a 343. It's a massive call to drop Foden and Bellingham but I can't see how we get the balance right without dropping at least one of them. We're in a really bizarre position where we might actually be better off if one of Kane, Foden or Bellingham became unavailable. We can't keep shoehorning them all in.

Fodens a great player but it just feels him, Bellingham and Kane are all trying to live in the same area of the pitch. Gordon and Palmer can play wider which is why I went for them.

If we were able to field 12 players it would ease our selection issues, but dont think the ref will go for it. Also Gordon looked exactly what the doctor ordered on the left so has to start for me. If we were picking on performance I would actually probably switch to a 343 Pickford Walker. Stones. Guehi TAA. Rice. Mainoo Saka Palmer. Kane. Gordon. Walker and Guehi are so pacy to recover we can probably go quite gung ho..... Taking Bellingham out clears out the number 10 role for Kane to drop into and Palmer and Gordon will get beyond him which he needs. Feels like it suits everyone better. Saka is not going to offer much cover at LWB, but going forward him and Gordon down the left could be devastating. But Southgate is not fond of changing systems mid tournament...while be has played three at the back a lot Ill be amazed if we move away from 4231. And dropping a big name player like Bellingham is not something Southgate has ever done.

He was genuinely brilliant in the first half against Serbia and then utterly disappeared.... Very odd. Not really seen anything like it. I think Bellingham and Kane are struggling to play together. Gordon and Palmer look like they need to star. Hard decisions need to be made.

It does seem bizarre we can get this group while France, Netherlands and Austria all in a group. All our groups under Southgate have been so easy, followed by ending up on the weak side of the draw. Its an uncanny talent.

Southgate has a lot of short comings but he is incredibly jammy with the draw... Fourth tournament in a row with soft draws!

Gordon has done more in 5 mins than Bellingham all game... Has to start.

Its been a lot better passing wise since half time. Feels like we will get there.

Energy good, pressing good, running off the ball good, pushing up the pitch good. Unfortunately probably the worst passing performance in a long long time. Surely have to see Wharton or at least Mainoo second half? Kane and Bellingham have both been absolute passengers.

Yup, the whole team has been atrocious on the ball. Id actually say Bellingham has been the worst player on the pitch, absolutely hopeless. Id get Wharton on - exactly what we need here.

Well our pressing and pushing up the pitch has been way way better and that at least I guess is partly him.

With the ball we've been shocking but very good without the ball, at least we're getting the effort in.