The reason for that I think is game time since end of last season, hence why I’m hoping he gets back up to speed quickly. Stoke have back to back 0-0s so maybe they’ll get a hat trick !

Can you apply the same process of “stop or provide substance” to anyone who thinks long winded jokes about “the disciples of Jesus Mowbray” are in any way clever or funny? Nice one 😉

Yea it’s ridiculous how much Gallagher is a poor man’s Ben Brereton these days. I hope it doesn’t take him too long to get back up to speed because it’s a tricky role for a big lad, and his feet/footwork/dribbling at times this season created chances and goals.

I don’t agree with your view that TM is trying to settle for points, for example Bristol would’ve been a draw on that basis. I think his intention is clear, but his tactical decisions (like starting Buckley because he’s more “physical” against Rotherham) are hindering his intention. I would also give a huge slab of “benefit of the doubt” in terms of selection and rotation, in a season that seems to be 8-10 games a month continuously. He sees their fitness first hand, and saving Holtby for Saturday might work out well if we get 6 points this week. I do, however, agree on Armstrong being the main asset and reason for most of our success this season. Goal and assist last night again. No coincidence, his only real poor display I can remember this season was the Bristol defeat! I worry that a 10th placed Rovers in January are a lot easier to purchase a player from than a 5th placed Rovers. We do have quality in Dack, Travis and Brereton et al to come back but Armstrong is now our most influential player.

They don’t have the ability to invest like us or the quality youth coaching setup - that’s a basic reason for why both are less fancied clubs for promotion. But as you rightly point out, £ isn’t fool proof for victory. In terms of last night though, I would suggest the fact we had a little more quality in the end (Elliott, Downing, Arma) probably won the points on that basis. Certainly was no tactical change or style that won the day.

And referring to anyone who disagrees as a “disciple” is exactly the same.

Do you think Rotherham and Barnsley have such lofty expectations and aspirations? No? What is the reason for that?.. Oh yea, finances! 🤦‍♂️

Nothing worse than this sort of “I’ve watched football for 30 years” patronising stuff as if the rest of us haven’t. You’ve also followed by the use of the word “disciple” for anyone who doesn’t join in the daily / weekly complaint about something he’s said or done. Final paragraph, a humourless waste of my time. It’s just a long winded way of writing “everyone who disagrees is stupid”. As for last night, utterly woeful performance on many levels. As many “disciples” point out, if we aren’t meeting top six standard this season, it should be time for a change. A consistent level of performance like that would see us finish in the bottom 6.

Absolutely - the figures are for last season, and I would expect us to be more like 18/20m and further up in the same tally come next May. One of the reasons the expectation level is going up.

What is then? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8262315/Physios-191-000-kit-men-56-000-Crazy-wages-dont-add-EFL-clubs-brink.html These guys suggest 29k... Thanks MB for making such an important critique and contribution to the thread, proof that this place is the best for it.

That’s always been the (Indian) elephant in the room!

Well yea definitely skews the whole league wage / transfer value somewhat. The likes of Stoke and Huddersfield are still paying a few players premier league wages - I think we have a better squad than these including others like derby and Middlesbrough - yet ours costs much less. Even withstanding that; it would be seen as a massive failure to finish outside the playoffs. Testament to the potential and ability we have accrued over 5 windows for a moderate outlay at this level. As for Barnsley - you mentioned a decent VFM - maybe the trick or lesson we should see here is the opportunity to get a very experienced coach from a different country like Ismaël, who at 45 is in his tenth year of management in 2021, including teams in Europe like Wolfsburg and LASK. There have a been a few recently, Wagner, Jokanavic, Nuno Santo, Farke etc

They’ve won 9 games, regardless of form. In fact soft touch rovers “rolled” into Bristol on our own 7 match unbeaten streak - counted for nothing. If they carry on their PPG till the end of the season they’ll probably finish top ten. Not bad

? As for Rovers, very important time to get back into some form tonight. For all the talk of defending- we’ve only scored 1 in our previous two games, and something tells me we may need more!

About 15m in fees spent on our current champ attack (minus Harvey) Armstrong, Brereton, Gallagher and Dolan. (Dack still to come back, Holtby / Rothwell have played attacking roles but came on frees) Not to bad value for money in hindsight, especially if Gally continues to improve. All relatively young too. Wolves spent 15m on one player 3 years ago - Ruben Neves, to me that indicates the difference between 4 or 5 teams compared to the rest of the top half. The average wage for a champ player 15 years ago too- £3000 a week, now- almost £30k pw. So to me, the argument that “it’s a lot of money to us” never made sense because our expectations should be made by looking at our team compared to others. I would say we get a lot more value for money than others below; 1: Stoke City £94.2m 2: West Brom £92.2m 3: Swansea City £90.7m 4: Huddersfield £62.6m 5: Fulham £54.3m 6: Middlesbrough £48.7m 7: Cardiff City £48.4m 8: Derby £40.4m 9: Birmingham £38.5m 10: Reading £35.3m 11: Leeds £31.3m 12: Hull £31.1m 13: QPR £30.6m 14: Sheff Wed £29.3m 15: Nottm Forest £27.7m 16: Bristol City £27.2m 17: Brentford £17.1m 18: Blackburn £16.7m 19: Preston £15m 20: Millwall £13.3m 21: Wigan £11.7m 22: Barnsley £10.6m 23: Charlton £10.2m 24: Luton £6.2m If you look at the rank for wages last season, It shows just exactly what we’re up against, and it also shows how much of a divide in the league there is - due to parachute payments and the huge jump in revenue for one premier league season! I think the simplistic way of evaluating TMs progress with us, most of us would agree it’s potentially time to move on next summer if we fail to get top six. He has raised the expectations exponentially since he arrived. (For me at least)

The spending over the summer is a budget made months before. I also think that many deals would’ve been started / scouted way before anyone knew we’d be out the stadium for so long. That income plays into this, do you think the agents of Nyambe, Holtby and Dack have agreed to cuts or lower upgrades? Football in the championship is purely risk & reward. For a club that’s so poorly run in your eyes, we’re talking about a summer that saw us heavily invest in the playing squad. If we’d merely signed up these lads on longer deals, the problem would’ve been a lack of investment. Not every decision is going to be universally agreed with - Downing, someone used as a specific example of wastage - we’ve already needed him due to the amount of squad missing... didn’t his play lead directly to our winner vs Millwall? The best reward of investing in a big season would mean better contracts for those in the last years anyway, because promotion would see the squad likely double the average wage in one summer.

This can’t come soon enough for me. Whilst having access to watch the games at home has been ok in my experience, I just miss the noise and the energy in the building, even at a third full. I hope the Ewood WMC has survived the pandemic, it’s hard to find any news on that, if anyone knows anything, would be great to know.

The idea that FFP might impact future budgets in a pandemic where clubs have lost huge levels of income doesn’t seem silly to me @JHRover Doesn't seem silly to UEFA either; https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jun/18/uefa-agree-to-suspend-financial-fair-play-rules-due-to-pandemic Also, an actual manager at a championship club suggesting FL finances may be impacted for up to ten years might be a better opinion to take some insight from, rather than another “we’re a shambles” to the countless pile.

What about FFP? Now I know it’s obviously been ignored by some clubs, but the idea is the owners can pump in a fixed amount. If you lose 5m, or 10m in income, it doesn’t mean the owners can put more in, it means you’ve got to cut back. The link to transfer market - how good of a team could you build on free transfers in 2021 potentially? Josh King - Assombalonga Dack Reach. Osei Samuel Bacuna Richards Cabango Kabasele Femenia Begovic

This is quickly turning into a discussion about the meaning of specific words in a subjective context. I think Sparks are a great 70s band but I’d expect others to disagree!.. Achievements aren’t always objective either; do Accrington Stanley fans call John Coleman a great manager? I expect they would, however his entire career achievements wouldn’t stack up with anyone who’d managed in the top two flights. He’s effectively been one of the key reasons they’re a stable league club, yet his achievements wouldn’t be discussed in the same breath as major trophy or top level promotions. For me the Great aspect of TMs job, as I’ve said repeatedly, is the turnaround from basket case sinking quickly, to expectations of promotion within 3 years.

I’m not sure any football league club could’ve anticipated what’s gone on this season, the potential problem of 10% usual season ticket sales, a huge drop in commercial income and no fans potentially allowed in the ground for the first half of the season. Budgets are normally set the season before, and whilst I would agree with the concern of losing some of our best young players for free, similar to what happened to Hoilett - I would afford every team in the FL a bit of leeway in terms of being able to deal with a scenario that’s required 500m+ in emergency funds for league 1/2 from the PL and other streams. Decimated is a how I’d describe the impact on the (already teetering) finance of most clubs this year. It may be a good thing in the long term however - some examples of how this may force a “reboot” of clubs finances, with all cutting back more and thus players having to take cuts rather than upgrades; https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/may/08/covid-19-impact-on-football-10-years-get-back-where-we-were-managers-players-scout QPR Warburton; “ I really think it could be another 10 years before we get back to a financial level similar to now” I imagine our problems on the contract front are echoed across the football league, where £ discussed for new contracts/extensions/upgrades is a complete different picture post pandemic. The potential, which the initial post illustrates - some European/further afield countries have been impacted far less than our leagues - the chance of losing young lads abroad for nothing is probably magnified because of this. Also the premier league with their spending power will likely end up cleaning up some of these players from multiple clubs - have a look at how serious this issue is across the league; https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/endendevertraege/wettbewerb/GB2 One thing I think all rovers fans will agree on, we will sleep better when the likes of Nyambe et al are tied down on longer contracts!

Of course it goes both ways, that’s what subjective means. Can agree that great managers win trophies and promotions, the lack Of both would suggest Mark Hughes wasn’t a great manager for us. I’d disagree and suggest he did an excellent job of having us punch above our weight, Moyes at Everton never won a trophy in ten years - did a great job similar to Hughes, getting them in Europe and in the top 6. The big factor in my view on TM doing a fine job so far is the scenario which he inherited, as you point out, including a bat shit crazy (potentially criminally ran) ownership.

Subjective semantics. A lot of my judgement on Tony M comes from the absolute dumpster fire he inherited. It’s a complete different club in only 3 and a bit seasons

Bowyer got a team (in first and second stint) with Rhodes in the team, at the time this was akin to getting a team with the best goal scorer in the league. Tony Mowbray signed possibly 2020/21s top scorer in 2018 for 1.5/3m, and whilst thats only one example, its a similar story across the squad, as Dream’s points out - development thats worth recognition.

Yea I alluded to that in only a little bit of detail (the taps turning off) back end of the GB season when Cairney disappeared for nowt! In TMs first game in charge, Burton away - the likes of Wes Brown and Stokes on the bench. We had a very bad team at that point.