They’ve managed in different scenarios - for example Bowyer inherited a good albeit lopsided squad and spent what little money he had really well - he was a good manager for us at the time, and I was surprised when he was potted but relieved (at the time) Lambert came in. Lambert took us backwards, even though I rate him as decent. That’s how bad the club was being run at that time, as the better players started to leave too. After that utter donut gobshite got involved, the scenario TM inherited was a much different proposition to GB. Was unlucky not to keep us up. The turnaround since has been excellent, and I agree too that he’s needed decent backing from the owners to do that.

That’s a nice tip on Gary - one of my favourite players on his day. Some others worth a mention who’ve had decent years 20/1+ Nathan Aspinall, Glen Durrant, Devon Peterson and James Wade. Also Mervyn King who put up a decent fight against MVG is 100/1 and Jackpot Lewis 110....!

Subjective semantics I guess, I’d call Kenny a legend for what he did for us, Hughes and Souness club icons - perhaps Mowbray is a step away from greatness in the general eye, but for me - the overall turnaround of club since he arrived has been excellent.

If you look back, there is a two word part that is in bold. For me, TM has been a great manager - I guess my view of the state of the club before he arrived, was far worse than yours. Doesn’t mean other choices would’ve done worse, I just think he’s done a very good job up to now. A promotion back to the premier league would put him into a lofty status in my opinion, in terms of managers we’ve had in our history.

For two reasons I’d call him a great manager; firstly, by helping us to avoid a seemingly nailed on stint in the third tier, albeit with a decent wage and transfer budget and academy, yet Sunderland and others prove this isn’t simple. Second reason is the gradual improvement of expectations, back in the championship. This (for me) comes an overall approach to improving team, training, facilities etc This is helping our young players take the step up into the team, utilising Damien Johnson as a first team coach is big part of this planning and development. He’s also recruited reasonably well, and responded tactically to issues with injuries. In terms of Warnock / Hughton, it’s hard to disagree that they’re more successful managers at this level in terms promotion / achievements. There’s scope to discuss their individual impact for us though - Warnock instead of Coyle at the time would’ve been a no-brainier, but would he improve the academy to first team cohesion, and put other building blocks in place the club desperately needed? Not sure. Would’ve been a lot better than the reprobate Coyle, that’s for sure. In terms of Hughton, no doubt in his class and quality as a manager, he’s essentially been a decent premier league manager and has had decent success, albeit not enough to keep clubs mid table. In terms of championship level; Title with Newcastle in first season on playoffs (NUFC relegated season before) Play off defeat with Birmingham (BFC relegated season before) Promotion with Brighton at second attempt - Brighton had previously been in three out of 4 play offs (season before he joined, remember “poo gate” vs Palace?) 2 out of 3 promotions, both with heavily fancied and financed teams - I would expect Forest to be his most difficult test to date. Would he be a good appointment for us? I think so, but I don’t think he would’ve got us promoted to the prem yet, as his CV suggests that’s only really likely with a top budget. Warnock is the one more likely to get unfashionable, un fancied teams nearer - but I think well past his best. Funnily enough, for me, probably still one of the best choices for manager, for a team like us.... we sacked in 2010 to start “the bad times” off...!

Tried to find another thread regarding this however not much to go on. Two reason for starting; 1. One of my favourite tv competitions of recent years starts in ten days - the PDC world championship at Alexander palace. Anybody looking forward? Any betting tips? A player I’ve met a couple of times, Dave Evans is in this year, playing Ross Smith. 2. Lockdown this year has meant several hours more than usual on my own practice board. I’ve updated my setup board and light, darts, flights etc - interested in any other BRFCS lads who play for any practice games you might have come up with, any tips or chat on your setup, and we have also made up for the pubs being shut (a little at least) by playing google hangout games and tournaments, always welcome to new players.

That’s bit is the chicken and the egg - I seem to recall a comment from TM early days about needing to be fit enough, strong enough and full of the “Bennett or Evans“ effort and energy level if he is going to get more chances. Post lockdown, he appeared to have physically matured imo.

I agree that our strengths don’t lie at the back and whilst we’ve suffered a few injuries, we’ve also dealt relatively well with losing a couple to Covid, and our backup keeper has had to be called on. Some confidence in that level of depth. I agree too that we need some luck, like not losing Dack for 10 months last season - any big injury to the main men at the back; Lenihan, Kaminski, Nyambe - could be very difficult to be competitive.

Arguing with whom? There’s no argument here, just individual opinions. My opinion in 2018 and 2019 was “he hasn’t had enough of a chance yet” and it’s now “he’s developing into a player through opportunity and potential”. For some this is hard to take seemingly! As for responding with a link to a post I already replied too, utterly pointless.

https://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php?/forums/topic/33524-ben-brereton/&do=findComment&comment=1904473

He barely had a start in his first two seasons, yet in that time he’d been pronounced a dud. He’s gradually had more impact in his chances, Bristol at home last season stick out, leading up to consecutive starts. For all the mental gymnastics going on - no supporter, in my view, could’ve had a reasonable amount of evidence to make judgement. Yet they did, and here we are.

I guess the summary of my overall view now would’ve been that this spell of improvement would probably come during a proper run of games to get match fit. Also after time due to age.

As previously mentioned - the minutes, starts and opportunities, in my view; prevented any supporter from making any full judgement. Hence the disagreement.

Completely disagree with this level of criticism, and I personally wouldn’t be as arrogant to think I know what makes a player at this level, or at least how to spot potential.

Yea, myself included The balance sheet didn’t seem to be impacted much, over last 2/3 windows we’ve built continuously but always from a certain “pool” of players that don’t bust the wage bill.

I disagree - we went for the likes of Bamford and Celina but couldn’t get near wage demands. Hence assumption the deal we did didn’t go beyond a budget. My view then, people “ignored reality” when using the fee to expect instant success. Age, previous experience and him being 3rd or 4th choice on our shortlist suggested (at the time) to me that this was one for further down the line.

We spent more than 7m in one season in sacking managers “allegedly” and that was nearly a decade ago. It’s 2020 - when prem stable money Bunla can’t match top Champ wages, some in region of 4 year 10+million contracts, it makes no sense to see 7m as a “talismanic” mega splurge. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with criticising a player after for perceived lack of performance and effort, as long as you agree there is no issue with suggesting such criticism of a 19 year old only partially involved was critical then, and looks even more stupid now. Equally - it’s absolutely fair game to say we could’ve spent the money better at the time, and it’s absolutely fine to suggest transfer business isn’t easy with certain limitations. We’re all buzzing one of our lads is performing well, that’s something we all agree on.

I didn’t compare them, you did. I asked how much he’d be in this climate, any input on that? You’d have to elaborate further on the part in bold because I’ve no idea what you’re on about

I guess one point of mine regarding this is one came with AA 101 league apps when bought, BB 53... Newcastle wanted to sell, perhaps Notts Forest less so? I can’t see how 2 years difference, and a minor argument of more Championship apps for BB cost double, and I can understand people’s view on that discrepancy, but transfer deals are never £ for £ the same. All come with an element of risk, more so at 19 and 6/7m. My annoyance with many of the so called “humble pie eaters” (Which sounds more like a problem in Wigan atm) was a lack of patience for his age, to even give benefit of the doubt for certain mistakes or lack of impact. Arma is 2 years in front of Ben. Experience, maturity of decision making - massive for modern day forwards. Some players like Harvey Elliott have so much ability at young age they’re above Championship standard at 17. Doesn’t mean he will make top level - but I wonder what it would cost to get him on a permanent?

The criticism at the time was related to a poor spell at Bolton if I recall. Turned out a banger. Now looking more and more top flight. ... and I hope you’re well too Phil

https://www.lawinsport.com/topics/item/determining-the-level-of-compensation-for-out-of-contract-football-players-the-fpcc-danny-ings-award Some confusing elements at the end about it being different with EU member states and crossing borders etc. Can see Nyambe being popular abroad - particularly Italy or Spain, they love proper full backs!

What would you describe his role as? For me, the change out wide suits him but I wouldn’t describe it as his speciality. Part of the reason for investing in players of this age, is the opportunity to develop their potential around specific opportunities and the style of the team. 61 appearances for the us in all competitions equals 2850 minutes. Considering we’ve had around 100 fixtures since he signed, he’s been in around half and only played about 30min a game. Far less before this season. No supporter could’ve come to a proper judgement in that time, and as far as I’m concerned about the level he can get to, I don’t think any of us have had the time yet to judge or safely say what his full potential is. Extreme example? A striker our club paid 3.5m for who achieved fuck all and ended up costing us millions to pay off? It’s pertinent to any BRFC debate on signing strikers. Especially when many of the same criticisms (like being a lazy sod) have been nonchalantly placed on Big Ben. Why do you and others see the pointing out the “over critical” comments as some sort of attempt to shut down debate? You're welcome to criticise whatever and whoever you want, just like I am allowed to suggest that particular comment is wrong from my perspective. It applies to everyone - you could take (as many did) umbridge at the notion that I felt a multimillion pound deal for an English 19 year old striker with potential was a good idea. As for the straw-man on the end of your post, I don’t think anybody needs to be told that the club would be rightfully and heavily criticised if it allows investments like AA slip away for nowt! Speaking of AA - a 3 million pound investment in a player, who at the time was a “risk” because he’d never achieved it in the championship!

Some good points but I always thought Sky chose their games through number of subscriptions in the area of the club? Hence why city teams more likely than smaller towns, and also why Leeds played every week on Sky every week when in a lower division

By giving a recent “ish” example of us wasting money, I’m not suggesting we either do this one way (young and big fee) or the other (older ex prem and big wage)... such an obsession with seeing this in Black and White! It’s just example of why (at the time) I felt this “flex” argument is a simple format for viewing the way we can sign players. Like you say - it’s all speculative without exact figures, but it’s not a stretch (for me at least) to see why we struggle attracting ex prem players, or competing for lower league who have interest from PL teams due to wages. TM seemingly has managed that side well, keeping us competitive but away from the days of Rhodes on 50k per week. Within that limit - there’s no opportunity to compete with recently relegated teams for players, even more so being recently (at the time of the BB deal) in league 1. Thus BB was one in our “available players” to buy. The same summer we spent 3m on Armstrong btw and whilst that isn’t an excuse to waste money, it’s an example of how every deal is about weighing up risk / reward for clubs in our position.

That’s a good point - you’re talking about Josh Maja? I know certain leagues have different rules