Jesus you say a lot without saying much RF You used the phrase doom merchant, not me. I also have made it clear I disagree with many of the common criticisms, that’s hardly an attitude of ignoring any criticism. If you agreed with me about Evans, why not quote Stinny who thinks this is nothing to do with Mowbray?

I broke down his post into three points outside of the one you dismissed! I’m still waiting to see which one you think is fair lad..

Wigan came up too so the idea that momentum is the reason we’ve had a decent start should apply to them, should it not? If you don’t like the spiky replies, don’t start off posts with rose tinted spectacle stuff - because that’s exactly the same- it’s suggesting any viewpoint is entrenched in some sort of misguided bias. There’s some negative aspects but they are completely outweighed by the positive elements - which are regurlatly ignored by you and others. Defensively, I’d like to see more investment too - but I’m under no illusion that this was ever a simple or cheap job.

You have an astonishingly stubborn nature to criticise things you can’t see through ignorance. That literally makes any response to your further criticisms of Graham and Bennett pointless. If momentum is the only thing that’s put us here, what about Wigan?

I could quite easily say that the amount of points we have amassed, our attacking threat and our impressive home form is ignored because it doesn’t fall into the criticism bracket. Just to put that into context - we’ve scored a lot of goals and in nearly every game we’ve played - we’ve either contested or at least had consistent enough spells to be in with a shot of winning the game. Equally we tend to concede goals in game when we are gung ho attempting to win, you say give up.

I think it makes you look a bit daft saying his other points are fair enough? “Decent” ala average? Do you believe any “average” manager could’ve turned our club completely round? “He will never get Rovers up”.. is that not ignoring the trend, since were already technically overachieving from certain perspectives? Plus he’s done it before? “He needs binning off”, there’s nothing fair about that Kenneth!

The question you asked me doesn’t need a response, because we didn’t just make one signing, and a few of them had a bit of experience at this level. I also ignored it, as it’s simply isolating a response to a ridiculous remark, Tom. If you’re truly interested in what my overall view of that deal is easy to find on this website, thread etc. Your sweeping statements against all those players and Mowbrays impact just show a lack of understanding from my perspective. Easy examples, Graham has been a great player that TM gets the most of even in his later years, Bennett has become a leader, the vice captain, and he’s been utilised in many positions to cover injuries - and not done too badly either. There’s plenty of argument to suggest that’s his best role in this squad. Evans has improved under Mowbray. I’d like to bring anyone else into this discussion who disagrees with that statement and their reasons. Conway was a discussion in the summer, and I can see why many thought his time was up. But for minimal cost, and without questioning the manager’s published opinion about him being a good character in the dressing room - he has still had a decent impact. Particularly the Sheff Wednesday game, and in a couple of other cameos. On the younger lads - I don’t expect consistency yet because that’s what you get trying to develop players like we are. There’s bound to be mistakes, but look at Darragh - times this season he’s been as dominant as any centre half we’ve had since 2011, one that gets headed goals n the box too. You’re simply just writing people off and I’ll never subscribe to that. I’m not suggesting that things couldn’t be done better, that’s never been the case. Even under big Sam, Hughes, Souness etc. What I am firmly in the camp of - the direction we are heading is up. That’s because 9/10 decisions our club management have taken since Mowbray was appointed resulted in us moving forward.

For saying Jog on? Jesus, anything to have your echo chamber back.

Call me modern if you like but I’d say there’s more to a footballer than just goals, even upfront. If there wasn’t, Nuttall would be hailed as the second coming of Jesus. And for the last time, I was replying to; “Whatever we could have done with it, it would have been better than what we actually did!” The ridiculous reply about Murphy/Etuhu was to point out just how wrong the above statement is. Now jog on.

Specific to your measurements - a season seems fair enough but if he’s hardly factored by then and still on the fringes, without making much impact off the bench - id be starting to be convinced it’ll never come. Now though it’s remarkably premature in my eyes to suggest it’s an “obscene” waste of money or a “blunder”. No argument that different decisions might’ve yielded differeng scenarios - hindsight is fantastic though.

And you’re choosing to highlight my point specifically to argue with, when it’s quite clearly a ridiculous response to a ridiculous point.

I don’t think waiting till he’s had 2 or 3 starts in a row in the league is unfair personally

No but 47ers fantasy was literally anything we could’ve done would’ve been better.

“Travis he fell on” sums up the angle you are coming at here. Him and Richie started the same game vs Sheff united, so try not to make things up to suit your arguments either. In my opinion, the Senior players improved under TM; Graham, Bennett, Conway, Evans. Younger players improved and/or signed by TM; Raya, Nyambe, Lenihan, Bell, Travis, Armstrong, Dack. Theres probably examples ive missed from those lists but to say “not the type to develop players” is ridiculous in my opinion mate, even if Ben hasnt made the grade yet.

I think you need to look up the definition of straw man, it’s not simply a term for things that you disagree with. As I’ve previously stated, any judgement on a 19 year old with 1 league start is flawed. You’re telling me we over paid, I’m telling you that I’m not judging him yet. Compared to borrowing some like Charlie Austin for 6 months, what would you say could cost us more?

It’s not me who said it was a thing, so it’s not an assumption, it’s the words of someone else you have irrational dislike for. I know it doesn’t fit your narrative but football isn’t just about what we want - if you cannot see this division as anything but a minor hurdle back to what we deserve, you’re in for a shock. Theres always scope for improvement but I won’t be convinced that this deal is as bad as you and others seem to want it to be. The point about the Rao’s getting bored, yet you want the club to borrow more!! Do you read your own arguments? We signed Armstrong for a similar fee, you know that lazy little tosser? I don’t think you expect us to be able to find a solution for every position at 1.5m each surely? Also, I’ll say it again for you. No way that 7m has gone from this years budget for Ben. But any loan or big wage would’ve HAD to go on this years sheets. Investing our main spend in players rather than wages is a lot better prospect than previous management at this level for us imo. Or do you subscribe to 47ers fantasy that doing anything other than what we did, wouldve been better? There isn’t the rush that is implied, unless you’re convinced that we should be trying to be promoted back to back. His age should’ve always given him time, yet his perceived fee has given him bullets.

The end? I’m sure you know this both those players will probably be in a wage bracket above our top earners. No argument that we could spend 7m on some quality lower league additions. The argument is we never had that AND the wages to go along with it. I would say that resorting to this suggests you’re out of any reasoned argument.

@Stuart @blueboy3333 bringing some quality discussion to the thread lads, keep it up.

Hold on, I thought I was in the naughty corner for attacking the man not the content?

“Whatever we could have done with it, it would have been better than what we actually did!”

This is ridiculous Tom. The players that have developed under him and improved are there for all to see. Young and more senior. You don’t inherit what he did and turn the full club round without some tactical nous. I genuinely can’t believe this website at times (cue @K-Hod to come and tell me to stop overreacting...)

Jim, you honestly couldn’t be further from my feelings with this squad, we have as good competition for places as we have for a long time. Plenty of young players, or some that aren’t the finished article - however I have a lot of faith in the work TM has done. As for square pegs round holes, it’s a pointless phrase/cliche and makes the user sound like a simpleton for me. Only a handful of players in this day and age play one position or system. We might be expecting a bit more from some who aren’t in their preferred berth, but it’s only a week since Armstrong and Reed played extremely well (both out wide, not squarepegs in their assigned holes!) I’m not going over the fee/wage/cost again with BB, because you just need to read back a page or two. If you’re in the camp that we should be much more ready for promotion 6 months after leaving the lowest point we’ve been in nearly 40 years, then I’d say maybe take your head out the clouds.

Yea. We could’ve signed a few premier league frees like Etuhu and Murphy, that would’ve turned out better than it this wouldn’t it.. You know how tiresome it is reading comments and views of people who have the memory of goldfish? If you genuinely think that signing was a “blunder” after 5 months, the fee was “obscene” and it was the worst thing we could’ve done, you really are not worth discussing football with.

@roversfan99 the short reply to that is read back through other comments because you’ve asked me the same questions repeatedly and they’ve been answered.

Depends which report you believe - many said up to 7m, but that is a caveat doesn’t suit the angle of criticism.