You guys do know that Gavin Ward wasn’t reffing us today, don’t you? I mean, all of what you say is true, Gavin Ward is a ****, he does seem to hate us and does always love to be centre of attention, but it just seems a bit strange in a thread about a match refereed by David Webb 🤷‍♂️

I said something similar to my lad the other day. I honestly could see them spending a bit in the market this summer (not loads, but £6/7m) in a misguided attempt to try and placate the fans - in typical Rovers fashion though it will be done at a time when we’ve got one of the worst managers in our history and we’ll be left saddled with a squad full of crap signed to play his football. Just imagine where we could be if they had given JDT an extra 5 or 6 million!

I ended up going this evening having thought I probably wouldn’t, only because my daughter said she wanted to go, and, as others have said, I don’t think I’ve been so disinterested in a Rovers game ever before - I cheered for the equaliser, but the first goal, like the two against us, just didn’t register any emotion within me at all. It really just doesn’t feel like our club any more. On the game, undoubtedly it was our best performance under this manager (albeit a very low bar). Even in the first half there appeared to be a plan - not a very good one, but at least a step up from no plan whatsoever. The gist seemed to be get the ball forward at every opportunity and get runners after it hassling and harrying the opposition in and around their box. The main problem, aside from the distinct lack of quality in the balls forward, was that our entire team looked out on their feet after about 25-30 minutes and I doubt that Wednesday have had an easier 15 minute spell all season than the end of the first half tonight. And of course gifting them a goal after 15 minutes didn’t help matters either. The second half was more of the same, with even more intensity and even more runners forward. It paid dividends so I shouldn’t be too critical, but the cynic in me says that it’s easy to play that way when you’re already 2-0 down as the opposition sit back a bit deeper and you can afford to be a bit more kamikaze in the way you play (and we were, with only 1 of the centre backs staying back on numerous occasions). I’m not sure you’d get away with playing like that from the start of a game as we’ll just get picked off on the counter attack. Individually, I thought that was probably one of Cantwell’s best performances for us, especially once he moved to the left, and Tronstad looked almost back to his early season form. The big worry however, as others have already pointed out, is that this result will be used to justify giving this fraud of a manager more time, which would be a travesty. He was a lot more animated tonight (still pretty statuesque, but some pointing and shouting instructions) so I think he was beginning to feel the heat and obviously knew he needed something from tonight.

This is the issue with losing the game in the first 10 minutes, it allows perceptions of the overall performance to be skewed. I said to my lad as we were driving home that I knew exactly what the managers post match interview was going to be - “first half wasn’t good enough, but second half we played well, stats show we had more possession, more territory etc, this is how I want to the team to play going forward etc” - but all of that ignores the fact that we were 2-0 down and Boro’s second half gameplan was clearly to defend deep and hit us on the break (and, as someone else has already pointed out, even then they created the better chances and should have scored more). As we saw against Cardiff, if the game was in the balance in the second half, our performance would have been equally poor throughout the whole 90 minutes. There’s no discernible patterns or plan to how we play. At one point in the first half Hedges seemed to come in off the wing and be playing almost as an extra CM and Travis was having a go at him and telling him to go back out to the left - had he been told to go inside by the manager? If so, why did our captain not know about it, and if not, then why has he decided to take it upon himself to change his position? All the while VI just stands there looking bored with his hands in his pockets. And then in the second half the same happened, this time with JRC moving into midfield and Hyam having a go and telling him to get back to RB. The players either don’t know what they’re supposed to be doing, or they do know and they’ve decided that they don’t want to - but either way it boils down to the clown in charge and it doesn’t end well At a normal club he’d be out of the door today and Lowe back in temporary charge until the end of the season, but instead we all know that he’ll be here for the full 3 years, probably with us at the bottom of league 2 when he finally leaves!!

I hope you’re right I don’t disagree with this, in so far as those three are the human shields for the Venkys - they’re there to take the flak for the decisions and general mismanagement that happens above them (and they get paid a pretty price for doing so) and it’s working - it just feels like we’re aiming at the shields and not those hiding behind them, but hopefully I’m wrong and, as IraC says, it will help to force out the root cause of the problem too

I appreciate what is being done, and can see where you’re coming from, but for me this is aiming at the wrong targets. Waggott, Suhail and Gestede (and Ismael for that matter) are just symptoms of the root cause. Say this works to the extent that all three resign their positions, they’d just be replaced by more of the same - or, as history shows, even worse (if that’s possible) I don’t want to sound like I’m being critical, because I really do appreciate the time and effort that people like yourself and others put in - and I honestly don’t have any better ideas - but the only way the club can move forwards to get rid of the owners - everything else is just a distraction imo

Not just Dolan (although I agree he is frustrating in the extreme), we just never seem to capitalise on these kind of situations. The goal they scored was gifted to them by Hyam misplaced a pass out of defence, but, be honest, if we had been gifted the ball in the exact same way what are the chances we would have scored from it?

I haven’t had chance to see them again, but from my seat in the JWL it looked like Dennis’ first challenge could easily have been a straight red, but then I think he’s very unlucky to get a second yellow for the second one - he has to be able to go for that ball and I think that’s a case (again) of a ref not understanding how to play the game. Also what happened to warning players - the ref was happy to warn their number 26 in the first half when he committed two fouls either of which could very easily have been a yellow card, but then couldn’t get the cards out quickly enough when it came to Dennis. Anyway - overall I think we were very fortunate to come away with a point as we were second best for the majority of the match. Ironically we had just started to look like we could compete with them when the sending off came. I’ve said before, we give up possession far too easily and against teams that like to keep the ball, such as Norwich & Swansea, we struggle to do anything because they don’t give us the ball nearly as frequently as we give it to them. Fortunately next week we’re playing Derby, and no one can accuse them of keeping possession well, so I think (hope) we’ll look a bit better.

For me the concern is that, from the sounds of it, he’s been given a similar task to JDT - to develop the young players and ‘build an identity’, but, going off his previous roles, the identity he will look to build for us will be almost polar opposite of that which JDT was trying to build - which seems crazy to me - surely the point of a club identity is that it should be relatively fixed, with each new manager just tweaking little bits, rather than it being ripped up and completely changed every time a new manager comes in 🤷‍♂️ Just like everything else at the club at the moment, it just smacks of a complete lack of long term planning and focus

One of my best mates is a West Brom fan. Asked his views on Ismael - “makes Tony Pulis look like Pep” was his reply!

And whoever’s playing the dingles, surely?

Honestly, before last Saturday’s almost heroic effort against Man City, would anyone have even considered Wellens? That one’s a big no from me. Gerrard did well when he had Beale & Critchley with him - it all seemed to fall apart quite quickly once they got their own jobs elsewhere. If, and it’s a big if, at least one of those were coming with him I wouldn’t be opposed to him getting it in the short-term - I don’t think he’s a particularly good manager, but then neither is Lampard and he’s got Coventry flying at the moment. A little bit of new manager bounce, feel-good factor, call it what you will, might be all we need to secure a playoff spot this year. Long term though I definitely don’t think he’s the right choice. And, if we’re going down that route of a big name former player, I’d much rather we pushed to see if Damien Duff would come. The feel-good factor of having Duffer come home might just lift everyone’s spirits and take away some of the doom and gloom around the club - in the short term at least, before it all goes to shit again in the summer. But Rob Edwards or Gary O’Neill would be my more realistic choices. Edwards came into Luton in a similar position 2 years ago and had the sense not to change too much (despite having coached teams to play a different style previously) and carried them to promotion. And that’s exactly what we need here - a couple of tweaks, especially going forward, but not wholesale changes. And O’Neill I think is a steady, if unspectacular, manager who did ok at Bournemouth and then slightly better at Wolves in his first season there - this season they were playing well at first but not getting the results and then it looked like he’d lost the players at the end, but as others have said there were some mitigating factors. I think he’d keep us ticking over enough this season to push for a playoff spot and, probably more crucially, would have enough about him to keep us out of trouble next season if we’re still in the championship.

If Eustace isn’t going to be confirmed as Derby manager until tomorrow, does that mean he’s still technically our manager tonight and the result goes against his record?

It’s no secret that I’m not Eustace’s biggest fan, but I’m still disappointed that he’s gone - I would have liked to see how the season finished with him at the helm and I think parting ways at the end of the season would have been a better outcome for all involved (including Eustace who very likely will now spend next season managing in league 1) And it goes without saying that this whole situation shows (once again) that the club is a binfire at the moment and isn’t sustainable in the long run. However, if what Elliott Jackson has written is true, then I have to say I’m glad we didn’t just cave in to whatever Eustace wanted. His preference for signing older players would have left us with an aging squad with no resale value and tbh they’re not even that good: Batth is the one who has really worked out, but even then he’s playing better than I think anyone would have expected. McFadz couldn’t get a game, Weimann has chipped in with some important goals but his overall game isn’t great and he doesn’t have the legs for 90 minutes, Bamford - one good season in his entire career, hated by Leeds fans and made of glass - thank god that one was vetoed!! And I think the expectation that Smzodics would have stayed with a pay rise is naive too - he was talking about wanting to move to the prem literally a couple of days after last season ended. All a bumper new contract offer would have done is to encourage every other player in the squad to knock on the door demanding more. In terms of what comes next - as a few others have already said, whilst Eustace has done well (and certainly outperformed what most of us expected) he isn’t irreplaceable - the last 3 managers now have all had us challenging around the playoffs with what, on paper, looks a poor squad and every year I see people on here saying that this is our best chance because the league is poor and it won’t be next season - but like I said it gets said every year, and every year (including last season) we’re in the mix in the first half of the season - so maybe we just need to accept that our players are perhaps better than we think they are and/or the quality of the league is just poor every year. We are in a fantastic position and who knows, maybe a new voice, some new ideas, a new manager bounce etc etc might just see us squeeze into the playoffs this year

Had our perfectly good goal not been ruled out for offside, or a penalty given to us when Kargbo was clipped, then we may well have come away with 1-0 win too. Or, put another way, would Plymouth have still gone on to win had the referee screwed them over and not given them the penalty? But no, you’re right, it’s all just down to mentality

I’m almost certain he won’t have trained with us at all yet, let alone run rings around anyone. Given we played Friday night, I’m not sure they’ll have trained between then and travelling down to London. The lad is probably only just learning his new teammates’ names, let alone how the manager wants to play etc - anyone expecting him to get anything more than about 10 minutes tonight was always going to be disappointed. From the other comments on here, I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who is frustrated by Cantwell - I got pelters for mildly criticising him earlier in the season. He should be made to watch the video of Chair from tonight - the way he finds space, makes dangerous runs and, most importantly, keeps possession for his team - that’s what we want (and need) Todd to be doing, but at the moment he doesn’t look capable Also interesting to see Eustace getting a bit of stick tonight. We’ve ridden our luck a bit this season - far too often we’ve been too careless in possession, but good results paper over the cracks. Now we’re on a poor run it’s more obvious that our tactics hand momentum to the opposition too easily. And whilst we all know that he has been let down in the transfer market by those above him, so has every manager these jokers have appointed. At what point does our poor run stop being a good manager let down and start being a ‘death spiral’?

I too didn’t think he was that bad - he got himself into decent positions, but just never managed to find the finish. I don’t think he ever really got a proper chance though - it’s very difficult to find form when you’re only getting the odd 5 minutes here and there, or thrown into the lineup for a cup game as a one-off. I still maintain that had he played as many minutes as Gallagher did over the season he would have at least matched his goal return

The idea is that it spreads the opposition out because they have to have some closing down the short ball as well as being ready for the long one - which, in theory, provides more space to play in and gives you a better chance of keeping hold of possession (I think I saw a stat that nearly 90% of long goal kicks are turned over possession - although obviously some managers, such as Big Sam for instance, will take the view that even if you turn over possession it is at least in the opposition half and so if you can then win it back you’re in a better position than on the edge of your own box 🤷‍♂️) Of course what happened in the first half last night (and not for the first time) is that our passing and movement is so poor that we end up just smashing it long to their defenders and conceding possession anyway

In fairness we were playing with a disadvantage for that period - Pompey kept passing the ball to each other whilst our lads clearly hadn’t been told they were allowed to do that!! Thankfully it improved (although it couldn’t have got worse) and it was Gueye who really made the difference. I get the frustration about the lack of goals from him, but I’ve never felt he deserves the amount of stick he gets on here. The lads a natural target man - wins flick ons, holds the ball up well - and given that we defend so deep he’s fairly crucial to how we play as he allows us to get out and to play in the opposition half occasionally.

Although Wharton is almost certainly out for the season, so that's one more space for a loan this season which is perhaps why Kitching makes sense

Have to agree, I thought Cantwell was definitely our weakest player today and I was amazed that he stayed on for the whole match. Being generous I’d say he wasn’t fit, but then that makes it even more surprising that he wasn’t taken off. But given the impact we’ve seen from past players in his position, Dack & Szmodics most recently, you’d have to say that currently he has been somewhat of a letdown. Personally, today, I’d have brought Hedges on at halftime and moved Dolan into the number 10 position.

We had two players booked for time wasting during the added time, so again he was always likely to add some extra on. It’s always been a bugbear of mine that refs will acknowledge that teams are time-wasting (by booking players or pointing to their watch) but then not actually add on extra time to make up for it. For instance Hull were wasting time from the first 10 minutes onwards on Sunday but we only got 1 minute extra in the first half and 4 in the second. I suppose we can be upset that the ref today applied the rules correctly when often they don’t, but personally I’d rather they all did the same

Are you joking? There were 2 lengthy injuries in the first 10 minutes of the second half - it was always going to be 8+ minutes added. And the 10 minutes was shown just around the time the ball was played forward for JRC to win the corner from which we equalised - so no conspiracy theories needed. There’s plenty of things we could feel aggrieved about - the penalty was soft and he wasn’t going to give it until Gnonto got into his face, Ampadu got away without a yellow card despite the most blatant handball you’ll ever see, the numerous soft freekicks he gave to their right back, to name just a few, so there’s no need to be making things up to get upset about

The problem with signing a loan CB in January is that we would probably be looking for them to come in as cover for Hyam/Batth/Carter (when he’s fit), and so you’re not likely to get a decent loan on that basis - clubs don’t like loaning their best youngsters out to sit on Championship teams benches

Gueye was poor today, but he certainly wasn’t alone in that regard. And I do think that the level of criticism that he receives is disproportionate compared to what the other players get. Take the shot that you mentioned for instance - yes he dragged it, yes he probably ought to have done better, but that was greeted by chants of ‘bring on the Yuki’ (who was virtually non-existent when he was brought on btw). Less than a minute later ACD completely overhits a crossfield ball, smashing it out of play, and gets a round of applause. It’s a funny old game, as they say!