The bottom four have now all changed manager. 21st - Huddersfield 21st September - Warnock leaves, Darren Moore is hired. Huddersfield were 16th at the time and had eight points from the first seven matches. Since Moore took over they've only gained seven points from nine matches and are now 21st. No new manager bounce here. 22nd - Rotherham 13th November - Matt Taylor sacked after a 5-0 drubbing at Watford stretches the club's run without an away win to 21 matches. It would certainly be ironic if Warnock was appointed and ultimately led Rotherham to safety ahead of Huddersfield. He's gotten Rotherham out of a worse situation before. 23rd - QPR 28th October - Gareth Ainsworth and his dancing, chanting motivational speaker leave after QPR go nine games without a win, including a 4-0 hammering from JDT's lads. Relative unknown Marti Cifuentes, a Spaniard who had been plying his trade in Sweden, takes the job on 30th October. Two days later QPR chairman Amit Bhatia stepped down, essentially saying it was because he had better things to do. Cifuentes is unbeaten in his first two games in charge, drawing away to Rotherham and at home to Bristol City. 24th - Sheffield Wednesday 4th October - It was a shock to hear Sheffield Wednesday had parted company with Darren Moore after last season's promotion, but hiring former Watford boss Xisco Munoz didn't seem like the worst idea. Turns out it pretty much was though, as ten matches, no victories and just five goals scored saw Munoz get the boot - although he probably wasn't too disappointed, as owner Chansiri had just announced he hated the fans and wasn't putting any more money into the club. 34 year old Danny Rohl thought yeah, that'll do me, and took charge on October 13th. He'd previously been assistant at the likes of Bayern and Southampton, and in taking the job became the youngest manager in the football league. Wednesday have mostly carried on as normal, however, losing four of the five matches Rohl has been in charge - the other being a home win against Rotherham. They're obviously still bottom and of the five games Rohl has been in the hotseat thus far, Wednesday have conceded nine and scored twice.

Indeed. They'd have to hope he hits the ground running - because if it didn't happen for him within a few matches it'd likely be a complete waste of a six month loan.

Can't imagine we could afford to even come close to paying a reasonable % of his current wages.

Unsurprising if so. His post-match comments after getting obliterated by Watford suggested he knew it was over.

Would a 'General Rovers Discussion' thread be considered useful? Basically a thread to post random thoughts that people don't necessarily think would warrant their own thread or fit into an existing one. Most structured forums do have a thread like this, but I don't think we do. I feel like most topics people would want to discuss in regards to the club are covered somewhere though (JDT, match threads, season tickets, Waggott, the Trust, Burnley, the academy, transfers, various threads for former players) so I'm not sure how useful it would actually be. As noted previously, this thread is supposed to be for people to post optimistic takes without the need to defend themselves, so it isn't really designed for debate. A general discussion thread would be neutral to potentially facilitate that, but again, not sure whether it's actually needed.

It was what I wanted to do when I was younger, but I realised pretty soon that my personality wouldn't mesh well with that kind of career. I'm naturally an introvert and whilst nowadays I can pretend to enjoy longer/repeated social interactions, I don't think I would have been happy in that kind of job. Sports journalism I may have been okay with, but I just didn't go in that direction. Writing is something I genuinely enjoy doing, but it's probably for the best that I didn't make it my job, as that tends to suck the fun out of things.

We all know what happened last night, so not going to go into details. Rovers were beaten 2-1 by Preston at Ewood, the second defeat to them on home turf in a row, following last season's 4-1 humiliation. At least this result was a slight improvement. It was Preston's second win in a row, and eight points from their last fifteen has seen them climb back up to 5th place after a dismal run of form had seen them fall out of the playoff positions. Rovers fall to 12th, stuck in a similar position to the first half of last season where we either win or lose. Just a single draw from our opening sixteen matches means that despite losing eight games - joint worst in the division outside of the bottom three - we are far clear of the relegation scrap. For what it's worth, despite last night's disappointing result we've still accrued more points than Preston in our last five matches, with nine points from a possible fifteen. Another thing to note is that Sammie Szmodics' strike took him to ten goals for the season, and he's the first player in the league to get to double figures this season. If only there was anybody else in the team capable of regularly putting the ball in the net. It was another disappointing match for Wayne Rooney’s Birmingham City™ in the early kick off, as they were handily beaten 3-1 at the Stadium of Light by Sunderland. Rooney has now lost four of his first five games, with the other being a draw. The result drops Birmingham to 18th in the table - they were 6th when Rooney arrived, although it's still early days. The Black Cats sneak into 6th position, with seven points from their last nine. Their +10 GD is the fourth best in the division behind the top three teams. It all seemed to be going wrong for Norwich, again, at the Cardiff City Stadium. Despite going a goal ahead in the 22nd minute, they were trailing 2-1 by the time the half time whistle was blown. The Canaries showed their fighting spirit in the second half, though, and two goals in two minutes towards the end of the game gave them a much needed 3-2 victory. They are still leaking goals, but for this week at least they scored enough goals to overcome their defensive woes. The result will be a massive relief for David Wagner, who had seen his side fail to win in six and only gain a single point from the last eighteen available. It was only their second away win of the season, and moves them up to 16th in the standings. They have still conceded the most in the division, but are now joint-worst with Rotherhan, who we'll get to shortly. Cardiff will be bitterly disappointed to have lost this one, on the back of two wins and a draw from their previous three matches. They sit in 9th place. Coventry played out a 0-0 home draw with Stoke, ending a run of four straight defeats. By all accounts it was a desperately poor match in terms of quality, but the Sky Blues' boss Mark Robins will at least be satisfied with a first clean sheet since October 4th. They remain in 20th position, five clear of Rotherham in 22nd, whilst Stoke have now collected a very respectable eleven points from the last fifteen available, and are 14th in the table. A last-gasp 92nd minute goal from Liam Delap gave Hull City a narrow 1-0 victory against struggling Huddersfield at the MKM Stadium. Hull utterly dominated the match with 20 shots to Huddersfield's 2, and deserved the three points. It's a third win in five matches and moves them up to 8th position, only outside the playoffs on goal difference. Huddersfield meanwhile continue to disappoint under new boss Darren Moore and remain in 21st position, four points ahead of Rotherham just beneath them. For Ipswich Town two draws in their last two matches was considered 'a bad run of form', which shows how impressive their campaign has been so far. They've only lost one match in the first sixteen, and had no problem brushing a weak Swansea team aside at Portman Road. Swansea did take an early lead with a 7th minute goal, but by half time they were 2-1 down. A 53rd minute penalty from ex-Rover George Hirst put some daylight between the sides, and a sending off for Liam Cullen for two bookable offences in the 69th minute made Swansea's task even harder. The Swans did manage to claw one back in the 95th minute, but the damage was already done and the match ended 3-2. The Tractor Boys are still in 2nd position, but are now level on points with Leicester City in 1st place. It should also be noted that Ipswich are the top scorers in the division by a long stretch, with an incredible 36 goals in 16 matches. Leicester and Norwich are closest to them with 29 goals scored. It's a third defeat in five for Swansea, who are in 17th. Leeds kept their chase for the automatic places going with a 2-1 home victory against Plymouth. Ben Waine's 84th minute goal for Plymouth gave them some hope, having trailed 2-0 since the 28th minute, but despite late pressure they were unable to find an equaliser. It's a fourth win in five for Leeds, and they are currently eight points behind both Leicester and Ipswich in 1st and 2nd respectively. Leeds also boast the joint-second-best defensive record in the division, with only 16 goals conceded in their first 16 matches. A return of five points from the last fifteen available sees Plymouth in 19th position. Their 27 goals conceded is not a great stat, but they will be pleased by having scored 27 goals, up there with the best teams in the division and meaning their GD is 0. They are the only club in the bottom seven who are not in negative goal difference. Leicester had been strolling through the Championship, but have recently fell flat on their face. Today's 1-0 defeat by Middlesbrough at the Riverside was their second defeat in a row, and their third of the season. A stunning free-kick from Sam Greenwood was enough to give Michael Carrick's Boro all three points. A third win in five games means that Boro have now collected ten points from the last fifteen, and move up to 10th position, just two points outside of the playoff positions. Leicester currently remain in top spot but have been pegged back by Ipswich and are now level on points with the second-placed Suffolk club, only ahead of them on goal difference. Leicester have still only conceded a meagre ten goals this season, which comfortably makes them the best defence in the division. The next best are Leeds and Bristol City who have each conceded 16. Leicester are also the only team in the division yet to draw a match, having won 13 and lost 3. Two newly-appointed managers faced off as QPR took on Bristol City at Loftus Road, with Marti Cifuentes taking on Liam Manning, who was at the helm of Bristol City for the first time. It was also Cifuentes first home game as QPR boss. Ultimately, however, it was a boring match which ended goalless. QPR didn't even manage a shot on target. Nonetheless, they were the only team in the bottom four to get any points this weekend and sneak closer to Huddersfield in 21st, with the gap now five points. QPR will also be happy with a clean sheet, having not kept one since a 0-0 draw with pre-Wayne Rooney's Birmingham City™ way back on 22nd September. It's a second draw in a row for QPR, leaving them 23rd. Bristol City move ahead of us, into 11th. Their return of 16 goals scored is the worst outside of the bottom four, however, their defensive record of only 16 conceded is joint-second-best, so Manning will be looking to find a way to increase their firepower whilst retaining their excellent defensive instincts. Sheffield Wednesday's embarrassing season further descended into farce as they were dismantled 4-0 at home by Millwall, of all teams. Joe Edwards was making his debut in the Millwall dugout and, truthfully, couldn't have wished for a better opponent to start against. Young boss Danny Rohl will now be realising that being able to beat the worst away side in the division in Rotherham was not a turning point for his hapless Owls team, who have been soundly beaten twice since then and as usual failed to score in both matches. Defeat leaves Wednesday at the bottom of the table, nine points from safety. Their goal difference of -20 is the worst in the division, not helped by the fact they have only managed to score seven times in the entire campaign thus far. They've now lost twelve of their sixteen matches. Millwall had been on a run of five games without a win, so this was a welcome three points for them as Edwards looks to turn around their season. The Lions move up to 15th in the table. Southampton and West Brom had both been in good form heading into their match at St. Mary's, with both occupying playoff spots and both having won their last three games. It was Southampton who came out on top in the end, a 79th minute goal from former Rover Adam Armstrong deciding the contest. Arma has scored nine league goals thus far, one behind Szmodics. The result keeps the Saints in 4th, one point behind Leeds and nine behind Leicester and Ipswich. Defeat for the Baggies drops them out of the playoff spots for now, as they sit in 7th and are overtaken by Preston and Sunderland. You have to feel for Rotherham fans who continue to stump up cash to watch their team away, only to see them capitulate time after time. The Millers have not won in 21 away league games now, a record which spans over a year, and have taken a single point from their travels so far this season. No change in fortune today either, as they were mercilessly hammered 5-0 by a rampant Watford side. The Hornets went into this match having gained eight points from their last twelve, and ensured their good form continued as they put a disgraceful Rotherham side to the sword. Rotherham boss Matt Taylor had some ominous words post-match, saying that the goals they conceded were "unforgivable" and that he is worried that he has "a group of players who aren't believing". Not the comments of a man who is likely to be there much longer, you'd think. Nonetheless, victory for Watford means they are undefeated in six and rise to 13th in the table. Rotherham remain in 22nd place, four points behind Huddersfield, but the manner of their defeat means that they now have the joint-worst defensive record in the division alongside Norwich. Two victories in sixteen matches means there will realistically have to be a hell of a turnaround for both themselves and QPR to avoid the drop at this stage, although both will be given some hope by the almost-as-poor performances of Huddersfield and Coventry above them. I think we can already write Sheffield Wednesday off.

Potts was just barging a few people around and putting in some solid tackles, it's not like he was squaring up to players and scything them down. If the referee had booked him early on when he blatantly barged Moran into the advertising boards, as he should have, it would have stopped. The leniency of the ref allowed Preston to bully us as they knew they had plenty of leeway. We obviously need to be able to stand up to that, but the ref played a big part in letting Preston play the way they did last night.

If JDT had been given the same backing as McKenna at Ipswich (which, for the record, is not a huge amount) I think we'd be right up there with them. Unfortunately instead he's been given less than nothing to work with.

Never met Birdy but it's obvious he was Rovers' to his core and dearly loved the club. Great tribute last night.

We had some performances last season that I felt were below-par, and where the team weren't putting in 100% (for example Burnley at mordor, or when Preston dicked us 4-1 at Ewood), but I haven't seen any evidence of that this season. The lads are giving their all and trying to implement the manager's vision as best they can within their abilities - we're just hamstrung by lack of investment and injuries. The fact we're desperately waiting for Gallagher and Hedges to return says it all, really.

Think that model might be dead after receiving £0 for Brereton, and absolutely no hope of making profit on Gallagher even if he was sold.

I'd like for them to explain why at this point. Not interested in hearing empty platitudes about caring about the club or the fans, because we know they don't, and truthfully there's no reason for them to. They never have. They bought it as an investment on bad advice, at best, and if we take this entire nightmare on surface level as being nothing more than that then said investment hasn't worked out. So what's the real reason they are so intent on holding our club hostage? Because there's nothing to suggest it has anything to do with genuinely caring. Paying the bills (the bare minimum expectation as an owner) isn't enough to prove that they do. Nor is claiming this to be true in the odd soulless statement we get. Give us a practical reason. A logical reason. Just one. Why are you here?

He came to us injured and didn't have a preseason, which obviously doesn't help. Regardless of his ability it's been far from an ideal transition into the Championship for him, which is a demanding league physically. Such is the situation the owners have put us in though. We've had to take punts on risky players because we have no real money to spend, aside from the £800k for Leo which was presumably taken from the amount we got for Kaminski as an absolute needs must, although truthfully I'm surprised we weren't tasked with finding a free replacement there too, or just told to use Hilton as backup. Maybe JDT put his foot down there.

He'd been carrying a knock since the first half. Surprised he wasn't taken off earlier, but I suppose it speaks to our total lack of suitable replacements on the bench.

We won't because we have a massively underfunded team and shit owners. JDT is doing the best he can steering a broken down ship full of holes through the storm. At best we'll finish mid-table, but for Rovers in this division that can never be considered a 'good season'.

Feels like we'd have more chance of scrambling the ball home if we put it into the box, as what we currently do seems to always result in losing possession which is never good. I am sure the reluctance to put the ball into the box comes from the fact we have nobody who is a threat from a cross, but this alternative isn't working either. If we're going to do short corners then fine, but it doesn't feel like there's a purpose to ours. We keep passing it as if the corner came from open play, but the box is massively congested so there's little chance of getting through. I really hope you're right, of course. I've seen glimpses from him to suggest he has something about him, too, but tonight the introduction of him and Markanday felt like it reduced us to ten men. Markanday kept losing the ball and Leonard didn't seem to get into the game at all. Telalovic too. I appreciate he was a desperation signing, but you wonder why we even bothered as he seems completely unfancied. This is a 23 year old lad as well, not an 18 year old with a bit of potential. If he's worse than Markanday then it was a waste of a wage. Can only hope it's a case of him still settling in, but it's concerning.

It would be nice to know what we're trying to do with our set pieces, because I can't really work it out. For corners we basically take them as if we had passed it to the corner flag, yet we have players jostling for position in the box for a cross that rarely ever comes. I assume there's a method to the madness and I could make some guesses, but whatever it is doesn't seem to work at all.

Weak is being kind, honestly. Our squad depth is practically non-existent as soon as we get any injuries. The bench tonight was emblematic of the severe lack of investment in the team. Literally not a single person you'd have any realistic hope of making a difference.

Think the commentator said 11 of our 25 goals against have been conceded in the last 15 minutes (I assume 12 out of 26 now, if I'm recalling correctly). I believe one of the stats showed we're the worst in the division for conceding late goals. It's definitely a huge problem.

That's really why we needed to keep Dolan on. He was the one player in the team who actually had the motivation to keep battling right to the end. Unless he was injured or seemed to be completely exhausted (didn't seem to be either, but maybe one of those is true) he needed to stay on. Without his drive up top we lost a lot of momentum.

We just have absolutely zero from the bench to help us when we need to make changes. Markanday was useless, Leonard barely involved. Ennis apparently still not even fit enough for a handful of minutes. Dolan coming off took so much out of our attacking impetus, and there was no improvement on Siggy. He was at least trying to contribute even if it wasn't coming off. We play some lovely football but a weak defence ravanged by injuries and a lack of consistent goalscorer beyond Sammie leaves us in a difficult position. Venky's have left us without a squad capable of winning games where we need something extra towards the end. You can see that we're close to being a very good team in this division, but without actual investment (not just keeping the lights on) or a cohensive long-term plan we don't have a hope of progressing - regardless of manager.

Been absolutely shocking defensively tonight. Combine that with a frontline that only has one proper goalscorer in Szmodics and here we are. Summer budget slashing has completely wrecked our season.

I guess he still isn't fit enough... that or he's not impressing in training.

A lot of barging from Preston that has gone unpunished tonight. Poor from the ref. Sammie just four goals from equalling BBD's league tally from last season. First player in the Champ to get to double figures.