I'm 30, which makes this thread a bit tricky. Too young to remember the title win. Too spoiled to realise that the Souness/Hughes years weren't going to carry on forever, although they still contain amazing memories. 

As a recent 'high' of sorts, I was genuinely quite emotional at the Oxford game in L1. Glorious sunshine and full stands of blue and white in every direction. An important reminder of what this club can be. 

6 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Sorry but I'm not having this as a story of morality. There's a lot more to this and I don't think it's accurate to describe it this way. 

To clarify Joe, I wasn't really making a moral point. It was more how you can look at these two recent cases of clubs choosing to get rid of key personnel, and see that the differences between them reveal differences in how professionally they conduct themselves. 

I accept the circumstances are wildly different, but in one instance there's a club that have provided all the professional and support they could to an employee, before a line was crossed and they got rid straight away, and in such a way where they still made very classy and magnanimous public statements about the player. I think this shows a level of professionalism, decisiveness and shared strategy amongst the club's hierarchy that shows Rovers up in how they've dealt with Mowbray as far as we can tell.

I think the lack of professional curtesy is an issue too to be fair, so I guess I'm making a bit of a moral point in that sense, but I mainly worry about what it suggests about how the club is run. 

Horror session for Lancs this morning. 105-7 at one point.

Bit of a recovery from Salt and Bailey now, but still 90 odd runs behind Hampshire's total.

2 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

They weren't preserving the culture of the club when they took a chance on him after his drugs bans....especially when he was involved in another police incident just after starting training with the club.

Quite right, it was a mistake to sign him in the first place in my view. 

Still impressed with the way they dealt with his departure though. I suppose that's the point I was trying to make when comparing them to Rovers. They've sacked a player for ill-discipline, but were still very classy about how they dealt with the situation in public and have obviously got the balance right between a duty of care to an employee who has clearly needed support, and making a difficult hard-headed decision in the best interest of the club. Suggests that the decision makers are proactive, treat their employees fairly and are capable of taking difficult decisions. 

Contrast that with Rovers and Mowbray - it seems to be the polar opposite, at least as far as we can tell. 

Just now, Miller11 said:

Despite the huge reservations I have over who they will replace him with, I’ll be glad to see the back of Mowbray. That doesn’t mean that the owners shouldn’t treat him with a little bit of respect and common courtesy.

I’m more concerned though about the complete disconnect between the owners and the people they employ, and that’s completely on Venky’s. There is no way this uncertainty hasn’t had an impact on results either. Their arrogance knows no bounds, they will never learn, and ultimately they don’t give a toss.

I'm concerned about how employees are treated by the club, even if it's an employee who ultimately should be replaced.

The lack of professionalism is more concerning though. Fans of championship clubs often looked at the Brentford model in terms of how to have sustainable success at this level. Usually this is more about player trading and spotting value in transfers, but more fundamentally it's about looking at all aspects of how the football club is run and looking for where you can make improvements, large or small. That sort of care of detail and making sure the club is operating at its' maximum is completely at odds with how Rovers are run, outside of possibly the Academy, and the way that Mowbray's future has been handled appears to be the latest example of that. 

For those who don't follow Rugby League, Wigan have just sacked a player for repeatedly failing to meet their professional standards, and they're taking a hit on losing a quality player in order to preserve the culture of success that they're trying to build, shared by players, staff and directors. Wouldn't it be nice to think a similar level of thought has gone into the setup at Rovers. 

10 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Here’s my take / opinion based on a few bits I’ve heard and reading between the lines…

So, I KNOW that the training ground was rife with rumours last March that TM was gone at the end of the season, everyone knew. I also heard whispers that they’d interviewed and had maybe chosen one - I suspected Wilder or Neill but never had any confirmation.

For some reason, it didn’t happen. Maybe it was the candidates choice, maybe the clubs choice in terms of the timing for FFP or maybe Venkys decided against it? Who knows? But I do think there was a plan (of sorts) hatched then…

The cutting back, not investing in the summer or in particular at Christmas and the lack of any contact with TM was telling especially with the sale of Arma and the training ground money which puts us in a much better situation from this summer.

I also recall the conversation I had with Waggott after the Forest game when he openly said TM would’ve been sacked if we’d capitulated again like Fulham. Those conversations are signs that the relationship is dead really.

Then we had our hiatus and with it, Waggott and Venkys went quiet. Tony isn’t in the circle of trust anymore.

So, my take is that there’s a plan to restructure this summer, new manager, new regime and money to spend (FFP clear).
 

How good that plan is, who will take it forward, how much money will be spent and how successful it will be are anyones guess. But I do feel the next few weeks will be interesting, if nothing else!

 

It's the hope that kills you!

2 minutes ago, Neal said:

Was the Duncan Ferguson rumour I've heard started on here? 

It was. Can't say I'm overly enthusiastic about that one, true or not. 

I really like Ainsworth, and I wouldn't be dead against his appointment. Wycombe are a small club even by L1 standards (weren't they at the bottom of L2 when he was first appointed?) so he's obviously worked miracles there to get them and almost keep them in the Championship.

All that said, going from a club like that straight to Rovers is an enormous leap in terms of expectations, the sorts of players that you deal with, budgets and generally what the job entails day-to-day. I'd feel much better about someone with a track record at a club more similar to Rovers, either here or abroad if we've actually done our research. 

13 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Agreed with this. We had the best 11 in the league on paper for 2 years.

Very close to it, although I think considering we set up as a standard 442 we were badly lacking in quality midfielders. Cairney was there when we played him in his proper position, but if Jason Lowe was the best option to play alongside him then that in itself shows how badly lacking we were in that dept. 

Other than that, I agree though. Two strikers scoring over 20, plus Cairney, Josh King, Hanley, Duffy, Marshall when he had his head screwed on. Not to mention how under used Dunn was, and Alan Judge and Jack O'Connell just before then. Ridiculous that we only ever flirted with the play offs.m

17 minutes ago, roverandout said:

We were in contention under bowyer and more than just one season 

We'll probably end up finishing very close to where we did under Bowyer in the season where Rhodes & Gestede both scored over 20 goals. 

Although I seem to remember that this was very much a late charge that we made in the Spring onwards and before then we were some way away, so I'm not sure that I'd class that as really in contention. To be honest given the players we had, I'd say we underperformed more in that season than we ever have under Mowbray.

17 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Had this argument on twitter the other night with another TM denier.

One of the lowest incomes in the Champ blah blah...

Yes but ownership who make it a competitive midtable budget every season by covering the losses for that compared to the income.

But hes had nothing to work with....

Not a lot true, apart from the midtable budget, a 7 million pund and 5 million pound striker, loan fees and wage contributions to Prem clubs for their talent, a Cat A academy production line that most others don't have.  Oh and ownership who ignore bad results and basically let him do and say what he wants within reason.

Did i mention not being forced to sell ANY player in 5 years !

Ok, you don't just expect top 6 off all that but he has also been outdone by managers and clubs with less every season. Including injuries to key players and bad refs.

Some very fair comments here, especially on the quality of the academy (god knows where we'd be without it).

One thing I'd say in his favour (at least when it comes to transfers) is that the squad he inherited was almost completely without assets. Possibly we could've fetched a couple of million for Lenihan at a push. No other player would've fetched anything beyond a derisory transfer fee, and so something to consider when looking at budgets etc. is that we could well be comparing Rovers with squads which already have had quite a lot spent on them over time.

He can't plead poverty for the reasons that you mention, but once you take the Armstrong & Raya fees into account, his spend over five years is very small beer. He's generally done well in growing assets for the club too, it just so happens that the club has been pretty poor at protecting these assets with securing them to longer contracts!

I think generally he's managed the squad well with the budget available to him. Sadly he's not been able to get the most out of it consistently enough. 

9 minutes ago, den said:

He might be proud, but I would want more from the next manager in less than 5 years. 
 

Mere championship existence interspersed with record winless runs and frequently being reminded that we can’t expect to compete with most of the teams in this league, doesn’t do anything for me.

Me too. I suppose I'm feeling a lot of trepidation of who might come next, and I'm suddenly much more conscious than you can be looking downwards as well as upwards. Treading water in the Championship isn't good enough for Blackburn Rovers, but we were probably saying the same under Bowyer until a lot worse came round the corner!

Just now, den said:

I’m not sure that he’s done well during his time here. 
 

I wouldn’t have settled for what we’ve seen for the last 5 years. 5years is a long time in football and for a manager getting that long I would have expected far better than that. Wasted years in my opinion.

Would anyone settle for another 5 years of the same?

No, but then again if you'd have said in the Autumn of the L1 season that in four years we'd be furious by just missing out on the play offs, we might have taken that. Or at least realised that it could be plenty worse. 

He's not a great manager, and there have been at least one too many post-Christmas slumps to want to keep him. But taken in the round, I reckon he can look back with a fair amount of pride at the job that he's done. 

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I'm not sure about that, I don't rate Warburton, seems more like a sideways move to me. I suspect a QPR fan would presumably say the opposite, and a neutral would have them on par, at a guess.

Has similar strengths and weaknesses to Mowbray too.

I think we could do worse to be honest, but not an inspiring option. 

2 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

I won't hate on anyone and that includes TM. It's right he's going but that's for football reasons.  I struggle to understand why people pour such vitriol, he's not S. Kean. He's fallen short of my expectations on the pitch but I personally thinks he's a good human being and I'm surprised that Rovers fans who have a reputation for decency feel the need to hate so much.

Anyway let's see how the next guy is received, it will interesting how long some on here give him before he becomes the next target.

For the avoidance of doubt I'm glad he's off, just wishing for a bit more civility from our side of the fence. Hey, call me old fashioned.

I don't think most do to be fair. I know he comes in for plenty of stick on here, but I think personal dislike of him is still a pretty niche position amongst the wider fanbase. 

3 minutes ago, goozburger said:

I think Mowbray has done well overall. Understandably, there is a lot of frustration at how badly we've crashed since January, but we're as close as we've ever been to promotion under Venkys. Mowbray deserves some credit for that, but also rightly some criticism for not making the most of the positions we've been in. Gut feeling tells me he's held a lot of things together behind the scenes where the owners probably don't have a clue. I think he's been a good bloke, done a decent job, and although he should have gone some time ago, he's come back from those positions and given us some hope where we thought there'd be none (only for it to kill us later, mind). Comparing him to Kean is absolutely ridiculous.

I also think he's done quite well with recruitment. Made an £8m profit on Armstrong, could have made a good £15m-£20m on Dack had it not been for his injuries, and Brereton could still go for a decent profit in summer. Mowbray has had more money to spend than most managers here since Kean, but I would hardly say he's pissed it up the wall as many make out. Perhaps his fault has been tactically, rather than the players at his disposal.

The lack of contract renewals cannot be laid at his door. Many clubs are suffering similar issues with players running down their contracts for a new challenge, so this one is on the owners (and their past financial misgivings).

As club, I feel like we've clawed a lot of esteem back under Mowbray. We were absolutely on a death spiral before he came in, and he deserves credit for seeing us where we are today. I'm hugely gutted and frustrated that we aren't still in the race for an automatic spot given where we were, but I'd have snatched your hand off at being in with a shout of the play-offs with two games to go. It's unlikely, still, but it's the closest we've been for a decade (I think).

The big question is what will Venkys do next? They've got a good opportunity to mark their intent by getting a quality manager in and giving him a sensible budget for next season, but I sit here with virtually no faith that will happen, and somebody will weasel their way into a job that's way over their head. We will see, I suppose.

Pretty close to my own thoughts. I think we really can't be ignoring the seriousness of the drops in form that we've suffered, especially this season, but big picture wise I think your summary is a good one. 

I think he needs to be replaced, but i) it should've been handled more professionally and that's a real worry in itself, and ii) I'm pessimistic that we'll get someone better. Although we'll soon find out. 

Undoubtedly a shoddy way of doing business.

I hope - but certainly don't expect - this to be a case of the Rovers hierarchy waiting and seeing how the season will develop whilst taking the opportunity to do the proper groundwork for identifying the best man to take us forward next year.

Sadly, it seems far more likely that we've sleepwalked ourselves into this position, which if so is very worrying. 

Just now, jim mk2 said:

It's a huge risk. He's got enough to think about with his batting and bowling. It didn't work for Botham and made him a less effective player; Brearley took over and Botham was unleashed to win the Ashes

I cannot see Stokes working but then anyone will be better than Root's recent dismal record that has taken England to the bottom of the Test "championship"

You're right about leadership too: it's a national problem. Look at No 10. 

As long as Root continues his form with the bat, I'd have preferred him to stay on. That's not to say I think he was doing even a semi-decent job as captain, but at the very least you could say it wasn't affecting his form as a player, and that's what I worry about with Stokes. The lack of a single other sensible candidate means I understand this decision, but to say it's not ideal is a massive understatement. 

Just now, den said:

I got told last night that he was retiring at the end of the season and that Duncan Ferguson was on the shortlist.

Take that as being a rumour from someone apparently with links to rovers.

Left field one, certainly. Can't pretend that I wouldn't want someone with more a proven managerial record, be it in Britain or elsewhere.

Looks like tomorrow will be his last game at Ewood then (bar us sneaking in the play offs)

6 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

One of the few bits of credit Mowbray deserves is this guy. Albeit he accidentally realised how good he was (Smallwood sending off at sheff utd) I think Mowbray’s bollocks team selections fires Travis up sometimes so every cloud ey 🤣

Agree - although I would once again take this opportunity to remind everyone that Trav started that game at Bramall Lane alongside Smallwood!

The only appointment! And one which itself brings with it loads of risk.

How we've ended up in the position where we have so few even passable candidates for the captaincy is beyond me. 

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

He seemed quite quick and that would suit Mowbrays wing back system they seem to put pace before defensive ability.

Apart from that i didn't see much in him if i'm honest but i think we are highly likely to see JRC starting there next season. That's a whole other debate.

Hard to speculate too much when we don't know who the manager will be, but if Mowbray was to stay on I can see it being a loan replacement for Nyambe, with whatever money we have for permanent deals being spent elsewhere.

I get the sense that he'd like to move JRC to a less physically demanding position than wing back if possible, but equally I doubt that he'd want to use our budget to bring in two right backs if he can help it, so he might be forced to carry on with him there. 

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Zeefuik flattered to deceive but personally i don't think he's physically up to championship football.  Nor does he fancy it that much he reminds me of another Henley who'll break down every few weeks.

He might fancy the wages though but i think Rovers would be daft to spend money on him. They'd be better giving Nyambe the money !

He might be unlucky with the timing of his injuries, but it's a massive red flag that he's missed so much football already.

Perhaps he's still a v. decent player at this level, but we'd be mad to risk millions of pounds on finding out. 

5 minutes ago, BigUts said:

Not if he costs £3.5m!

I can't see us paying that for anyone who isn't a striker to be honest, and even then only if Brereton goes. Having said that it begs the question as to why we would agree in principle to that price if we never had any intention of paying it. Maybe we only saw him as a short term loan and the prospect of buying him for a few quid smoothed out the move in January?