13 minutes ago, Southside Rover said:

I don't want Lampard at Blackburn as its just not the appointment the club needs right now but I wouldn't say he was awful. 

His first management gig at Derby wasn't a disaster. Cocu came in a more experienced manager with a better reputation and did worse. Should Derby have made the playoffs yes but I don't think Frank was awful for his first job in management.

His first season with Chelsea under embargo blooding youth can only be seen as a success under the circumstances. 

This season he was unbeaten in the champions league group stages which not many awful managers could claim to have achieved.

He was always going to be under massive pressure with the squad they assembled and his decision making, defensive setup etc at times cost him but after only 2.5 years in management with this season being his first managing a super club style budget, I think its harsh to say he's awful.

Greats of the game didn't always hit the ground running from the off, even in our own lives we have to learn from our mistakes hence most Directors are at the latter end of their careers.

For me he deserves a crack somewhere but not what we need.

That's pretty much how I see it. He's had a crash course in management over the last couple of years, but it's really hard to suss out how prepared that makes him for a Championship team without the resources Derby had a few years ago.

He wouldn't be anywhere near the top of my list, but there are plenty of sillier options out there. We just aren't really in a position to take too much of a punt at the moment. 

17 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

Looking at the full list of clubs , we seem a odd addition  ,Somebody in Asia shoved a big wedge on it ? 

https://www.oddschecker.com/football/manager-specials/frank-lampard/next-club

I'd guess that it's just a very low-traffic market, so odds changing would be hyper-sensitive to pretty small amounts of money.

It reminds me a little bit of 'next party leader' markets for political betting. Hardly anyone bets on that sort of thing until there's an election on, so those that do have a flutter can end up shifting the odds pretty substantially based on small sums and (occasionally) educated guesses. 

15 minutes ago, Gordon Gekko said:

Rovers 14/1 for Lampard’s next destination... random 

I don't know a huge amount about these sorts of markets, but I don't think they're really hinting at much. Probably more a case of them sussing that his next job is likely to be a Championship club (unless he gets offered the job at Palace) and that we're a pretty good candidate for having a vacancy in the near future. 

Would be an interesting choice if there were something in it though. Not sure how I'd feel about it. 

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

Hi get that none of us are saying either are good, more like a debate as to which is worse a punch in the face or kick in the balls. 

It's a good point that you make. With the same squad TM was doing a bit better. And that points to him being a little stronger in terms of ability. 

My counter would be two fold. Firstly his character and actions away from the pitch are FAR worse. Trying to sell the training ground - unforgivable. Suggesting Rovers fans were entitled due to remembering 1995 - insulting. Coyle also didn't give contracts to his mates kids and the like either. Off the pitch, far, far worse which more than undermines him being a bit better in ability (which I tend to agree with just.) 

Secondly it's a just/very marginally better. For starters TM still got us relegated. Secondly the limited number of games, as we saw to our cost this season, probably helps TM in comparison as there was less chance of the obligatory death spiral (hypothetical I know). Also Coyle came into an utter mess, he didn't even get a load of his recruits in till towards the end of the window. It was a far from easy start. To use an analogy its easier to come in part way through cleaning up a mess. Then of course there is this season. To be three points better off with a shed load of advantages is absymal. Utterly appalling and just as unimpressive in its own way. 

To be fair I doubt Coyle would have done as well as the previous 2 seasons, although with that budget and team I think he might still have got us up.  but overall I think TM has shown plenty of ineptitude as a manager and blows Coyle away with his off field antics. 

To be honest, I'm deliberately leaving the subject of the training ground/academy to one side. If it turns out that Mowbray was somehow involved in trying to sell off club assets for personal gain, or the personal gain of others, then that clearly changes things and I'd have no problem agreeing with you about his character. There are questions to answer on that front (certainly from Waggott), and I'm pleased that it's not going ahead, but I don't know enough about Mowbray's role in the whole affair to to say that he was corrupt or acting against the interests of the club. Happy to be set straight on that though. 

On the interviews, I'd guess that I might be in a minority here, but I never saw any of Mowbray's comments as overly offensive or disrespectful to the club or the fans. Maybe a little, but on a scale from 0 to Bradley Orr, it was pretty small beer in my opinion. I'd bet we could get a collection of quotes from Sam and Hughes, maybe even Souness which could be interpreted as talking the club down just a little bit. He's been here for a good while now, and has said plenty of very complementary things about the club & its history too, so for me at least I've not been that bothered about things that he's said in interviews. 

Anyway, I accept that the above is a matter of opinion, but I really disagree when it comes to comparing their results record. It's true that this year we only ended up with three points more than the relegation season (which I agree is unacceptable) but this is only after taking the points we gained under Mowbray into account! Had we continued with Coyle, picking up less than a point a game as we were, that would've put us on 43 points at the end of the year. Mowbray did still take us down, but the form was pretty good - only lost 3 times to Coyle's 16. It's quite ironic actually that we were at our best under Mowbray when he was forced to be pragmatic. He did a good job initially of setting us up properly, making us harder to beat, compared to how disorganised we were in the months before he took over.

I'll leave it there before I start talking myself into wanting to keep Mowbray! This is the summer that he should've gone, and I'd be very surprised if he turns it around from here. But Coyle was the absolute worst.

Well, not the absolute worst, we know who that was, but you know what I mean. 

2 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

I'm no Coyle fan - he was useless. But he never took pops at the entitled fans or tired to sell off the training ground. Both of which make him less odious than TM. 

Also before we build up TM as a managerial giant I do wonder if Coyle would have done much worse than TM if he had had the backing TM had. 

Compare this seasons performance to Coyle's and I would say it is probably worse. 3 years into the position, £15 million net transfer spend, no enforced sales, the advantage of Covid overall and Covid and a points deduction helping us Vs relegation rivals and we are what, 3 points better off. That doesn't strike me as a better manager to me. 

Again not that Coyle is any good. He gave us Williams and Byrne for starters and let Duffy go awol. But if we are doing a like for like comparison I wouldn't be too confident on TM looking good. 

I'm not sure why I'm choosing this hill to die on, but we do have a like for like comparison when they had half a season each with the same squad!

I'm not even suggesting Mowbray should be kept on - on this season's evidence we've badly lost our way - but Coyle's tenure was horrific. 

52 minutes ago, Boroblue said:

And tone fair Coyle was ok. Just in the wrong place with a fan base that hated him. No money, no support. Not like Mowbray. 

I accept that he was on to a loser to begin with, and some of his signings were actually pretty good considering the lack of cash (some decent loans anyway).

Even taking that into account though, he was properly awful. The way that Mowbray has tried to play this year has been a mistake, and he should have been more flexible when it wasn't working, but at least there has been some thought which has gone into how we should play. With Coyle, it literally seemed as though he just stuck eleven players on the pitch and told them to get on with it. 

9 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Is he really much better than Coyle though? Coyle took over a team than within 12 months had lost Rhodes, King, Gestede, Cairney, Olsson and within a matter of weeks him being here then lost Hanley and Duffy and a few months after that Marshall departed. Those players were replaced with frees or cheap loans with the exception of his solitary signing for a fee which was Williams for £250K. Mowbray has had 4 years, around £20 Million, not had to sell a single key player and yet we finished this season a just 7 places higher than we were under Coyle.

What does make Mowbray different from other managers is he loves to portray himself as a pillar of virtue, he's obsessed with telling people what a great, humble, working class guy he is. But in terms of his time at Rovers it simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

I certainly won't be getting a season ticket for the new season and I certainly won't feel a victim at missing out on watching a Tony Mowbray team.

Yes - we saw that in the same season once Mowbray took over. Take your point about Coyle having a fairly tough gig, but there's simply no arguing with the significant improvement in the team once we potted Coyle and brought Mowbray in. Sadly it wasn't quite enough to keep us up, but the difference was obvious. I would've have had any confidence at all in Coyle getting us up from L1 either, although obviously there's no way of proving that.

There's no getting away from how poor this season has been - bad enough to warrant the manager losing his job. But taking a step back, Mowbray is simply an underperforming manager. We've had plenty of these and by the law of averages, we'll have plenty more. That doesn't mean they he should be put in the same category of Kean/Coyle, either in terms of ability or character. 

9 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

Reach or Bannan would be first name on the teamsheet level signings for us.

Both have the ability to be, but I don't think you could call them that on recent form.

The way that Wednesday fans talk about Reach reminds me quite a lot of Marshall in his last months at Rovers. There's no point in having the most ability in the team if you never show it.

I'd certainly be very open to having Ainsworth - very impressive record with what he has to work with.

One thing in the against column for me is that he seems to have built his success on having a very direct brand of football, which I'm not against at all on principle but it's very chalk and cheese compared to how we've been playing for the last year or so. Ideally I'd be looking for a manager with a record of playing a possession-based game but more effectively and with a bit of steel defensively. I could see David Wagner going very well for that reason.

Maybe that's harsh on Ainsworth, and to be fair we probably have at least 2/3 players who would benefit with us being more direct anyway. 

Same team, other than Nyambe in for JRC

Have to say I've been very impressed with Joe in the last two games. I thought his performances earlier in the season were a bit of a mixed bag where he didn't always do himself justice, but against Millwall & Swansea he's been great. 

I just desperately hope that he can stay fit long term, both for his sake and ours. 

59 minutes ago, Ulrich said:

Scholes may have been small but he always held his own physically against much bigger /stronger opponents. Bucko's engine isn't good enough, he needs to be able to run for 90 and he most certainly cannot at present. I think that's poor at 21. I agree on his positioning and speed of thought, whether this can be improved however also depends on his coaches and their ability to coach him. I'm not convinced our staff can give him that as tactics and formations are not covered by rovers 1st team staff. But that's another story.

We should tweet bucko some vids of Scholes and let's send him for some boxing training lol.

He did - I was probably wrong to say the perfect example for that reason. Can't imagine Buckley ever picking up the number of cards that Scholes did for his 'mistimed' tackles!  Still, he's an example of a player who coped fine against midfielders who were much bigger, stronger, quicker and fitter than he was - mainly by using his brain and being brave when he had to. Personally I think that's the blueprint for Buckley too, rather than hitting the weights and bulking up, although I accept that you're making a different point about his stamina. You could well be right about that, although I'm not sure that he's started enough games to be sure one way or the other! 

3 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Scholes was a nasty bastard on the pitch. All this about him fouling people because he didn't know how to tackle is nonsense. He knew exactly what he was doing. He got away with murder.

The point is you can't turn somebody into a nasty bastard on the pitch, they've either got it in them or they haven't.

Nasty bastard he certainly was, and I agree you can't completely change the personality of the player. Seems very unlikely that Buckley will ever have that streak in him, so no arguments there. Back to Buckley though, the Scholes example (although we could just as easily mention some of the diminutive midfielders Spain have churned out over the last 10-15 years) shows that being brave and reading the game well enough can more than compensate for being lightweight.

Remains to be seen if Buckley has those characteristics, but I think we find out by playing him more regularly and then see what he's like after a run of starts. Wouldn't do him any harm to have another half a stone of muscle on him, but I don't think it's as important as it is sometimes suggested on here. Certainly wouldn't be the priority for me at the expense of developing other aspects of his game. 

I was impressed with JRC on his return, but we're obviously going to have to be hyper-careful with his hamstrings. We'll be doing plenty more defending in this one too, so I'd have Nyambe in at right back as the only change. 

5 hours ago, Ulrich said:

The lad needs to improve his physicality drastically. How old is the lad now 21? His body looks weak and athleticism is lacking and he is whether he likes it or not getting on now given career duration. He needs to hit the gym and it is disappointing he wasn't physically developed whilst within the academy. He has talent and its shows on occasion but without the body to impose himself it will always be flashes. Paul Scholes is the best example for Buckley, he may have been a midget but he was a terror for his opponents. Aggressive, strong, good engine all aspects that bucko needs to display and can thankfully improve as those are training and attitude considerations, not talent. I hope he sees it and starts training more/harder as his talent would be displayed much more frequently on the pitch. Said talent has been enough to attract some bigger clubs to follow him for years, now he needs to sort his body and then maybe we'll start to see sublime through balls from him constantly.

Couldn't agree more that Scholes is the perfect example for Buckley to follow - but I think the lessons he'll need to learn are more about attitude and using his brain than physically bulking up. Scholes was asthmatic and about 8 stone wet through for pretty much his whole career, but he had a serious amount of devilment in him and was never afraid to put his foot in when he didn't have the ball. He wasn't bullied when in possession that much mainly because his brain and feet were sharp enough to avoid those situations in the first place. 

I think that's the template for Buckley - be sharp and brave enough to anticipate where he can win the ball out of possession (good signs on that front yesterday) and be a bit cleverer with his positioning and decision making when we have the ball (much more of a work in progress). I'm hopeful that we'd see big dividends once he gets a proper run of starts, but we'll have to wait and see. 

48 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He'd be an improvement over what we've got at the moment, that's for sure. My issue is - has he been found out at Sheff Utd and that's his only way of playing ? I'm impressed by the way he's kept them plugging away although they were dead and buried by Xmas and their squad is pretty poor. 

Perhaps. They've had appalling luck with injuries to defenders too, and their back three have been so important to their success. I think the next club who get Wilder will have got themselves a good manager, although I wonder if after such a torrid year he might need a bit of a break.

If Mowbray does go, I'm happy enough that we're looking outside Britain for the right option, although I hope there's more thought gone into it than 'Barnsley & Reading are doing well with foreign managers, therefore we'll go foreign too. I know it didn't end particularly well at Huddersfield, but with the squad we have I think we could do plenty worse than David Wagner.

24 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

He definitely also gave quite a number of very lax sloppy passes away yesterday. He was mixed in terms of his on the ball play. His main 2 contributions were very decent. The Gally pass and the run and pass for the penalty claim. But he absolutely did give it away under little pressure on multiple occasions. 

In saying that it was by far his best performance as he was actually brilliant off the ball. Some strong tackles, good interceptions and a lot more energy. Overall I'd say it was a good performance. But he was bloody sloppy at times.

Completely fair criticism. Being generous I'd say that we might put a lot of his stray passes in the first 30 mins or so down to him being rusty, but they were still moments of poor play so it doesn't do anybody any favours to dress them up too much.

There was a lot of good and bad with him yesterday, but the the good was definitely enough to show that there's some proper talent there. The work out of possession shows that it's a bit of a myth that he needs to 'toughen up' too. Far more important for players of his type to be sharp enough to get to the ball first, and then on the occasions that you do need to make the tackle, be brave enough to commit. Good signs on that front yesterday. 

I think he just needs a run of starts. Looking really likely that we'll be without Holtby and Downing next year, who are broadly similar players. Assuming we're safe, I'd look to give him a run this season because as likely as not we'll be expecting a good deal more from him next year. 

1 minute ago, ben_the_beast said:

Massive win that. Could be hugely important so delighted with the three points. Was very unhappy with the line up but happy to be proven wrong. Of the big changes.

Dolan - Motm. He was a pest and the ball seemed to just stick to him. He really linked our forward play together

Dacky - yeah it was a deflection but he did what he does in and around the area. Found a pocket of space and scored. He and we looked far better with him further forwards. 

Buckley - Weirdly was very decent off the ball with some good interceptions and tackles. Poor with the ball though 

JRC - Seemed more balanced than Nyambe in his positioning. Offered a threat with his passing as opposed to Nyambes bursting runs.

Shout out to Harwood-Bellis, Trybull and Gallagher too. All worked hard and played their positions well. 

Thought it was a really good performance which we definitely deserved to win. The only time Millwall threatened was with Matt Smith. He's so huge though he'd trouble any side. Didn't think they were ever really in the game though.

Just posted above about Buckley, thought he was poor on the ball in the first twenty minutes or so but over the course of the game played some very nice stuff too. If Dack, Rothwell or Elliott played that first time pass to Gally for his chance in the second half we wouldn't have shut up about it. Did well to set up Dack for what should've been a penalty too. 

Gave the ball away too much too, especially early on, but overall I think he grew into the game excellently. 

One good performance doesn't make up for a poor couple of months, but we were genuinely impressive today. Much more like the performances at the start of the year.

He took a while to get in the game, but there were some really good contributions from Buckley too which were good to see. He has flaws to iron out, but his talent is there.

Best move for all parties. Decent defender on his day, but sadly hasn't played nearly enough games to warrant keeping.

Seemed like a decent sort though and was an important cog in the promotion winning team. Hope his move to the US works out. 

21 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Holtby has been missing on and off all season and Downing has started just one league game yet Buckley has still barely mustered a start even though we have been playing a midfield 3. If we want to be at the right end of the table next season we are going to need much better than Buckley in the middle of the park. 

Yes, no arguments there. To clarify I'm not suggesting that I expect him to be a key player for us from the start of next season. If he is, he would need to improve fairly drastically on most of his performances his season. My point is that those two would be candidates to play similar roles to him, and his new contract is probably a sign that they'll be on their way come the end of the year (we probably already knew that about Downing in fairness).

I do think though that there's a lot more to come from him though, and there'll come a point in the not too distant future where he really changes some opinions. I've never really bought the idea that he needs to go out on loan to 'toughen up' particularly, but he definitely needs to get a run of games to develop, either here or elsewhere. 

I'd guess this means that we won't be renewing Holtby's contract at the end of the year, and with Downing 99% calling it a day will mean that he'll be getting the game time that this season has gone to those two.

Personally, I think this is one that we'll see dividends with down the line. Won't dispute that he has had too many games which have completely passed him by, but equally he's not really had a consistent run yet either. 

We certainly have bigger things to worry about, but I'm glad that we've got this one sorted. 

10 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Watford remind me a bit of us. They have some very talented individual players but as a team just don't look a cohesive unit and heavily rely on some individual brilliance from someone to win them games.

I know what you mean. They remind me even more of us when we first relegated. Moments of quality from Rhodes/Gomes/MGP had us winning games that we never looked like controlling. 

On today's showing they look a million miles away from a promotion standard team. They have a few more points on the board, but I'd put them alongside Bournemouth as candidates to drop out of the top 6. 

1 minute ago, simongarnerisgod said:

every time he comes off the bench and does a rare venture into the middle he comes up with a goal,i think im`e in the minority who thinks he does`nt deserve the stick he gets,big lumbering lad who should`nt be stuck out wide

He's a better first touch away from being an excellent Championship forward, be it in the centre or out wide in my opinion. Sadly that part of his game has really let him down at times in the last 18 months, but he still has wonderful qualities. 

I'm not sure if we're going with two up top today, but if we are then him & Arma should be real handful for any defence in this league.  

Just seen that Evans is playing for the U23s, so that solves that mystery!