19 minutes ago, Amo said:

When you look at the players we had under his tenure, most notably a 40 goal strike partnership, it's unforgivable that we never got into the top six. And yes, I know Bowyer signed most of those players but that's only half the battle.

I wouldn't ever want to sound overly harsh on him seeing how much he was responsible for giving us a much needed lift. I'd put him as one of only two post-Sam managers to be in credit overall (admittedly a shockingly low bar!) and he was very good at identifying good young players.

Even so, you're 100% right that we underachieved badly and it looks even worse in retrospect. The goals in that side shows it, but also the careers had by King, Cairney, Duffy and Hanley too. One that doesn't get mentioned as much is O'Connell who is now being linked with some of the biggest clubs in the land. Judge and Dunny were both badly underused too, and a lot of the problems come down to GB not really wanting to leave a straightforward 442 as far as I see it.

Grateful for his contribution, but hard not to look at that time as a missed opportunity.

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Apart from Sheff Utd last season, who we couldn’t get near, it is rare to be outplayed  at Ewood under Mowbray.

It is that soft underbelly on the road, coupled with a lack of ruthlessness at times at home to convert draws into wins that has us plodding in mid table.

15 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Bang on - How good were Sheff Utd that day though!? Wow, I honestly don’t think I’ve seen a better team at Ewood...ever! Well at least for as long as I can remember.

I've missed a handful games since then, but this is absolutely right. Perfect blend at this level between skill, athleticism and grit. I've been surprised by how well they've gone this year, but you could tell then that they were an excellent team.

17 minutes ago, Doaksie said:

Mulgrew, Smallwood, Graham come to mind as feasible. 

I'd personally be upset if Graham featured on the list.

Me too, but I'd be surprised as well. Armstrong being productive at centre forward, and maybe Dack's injury in a strange sort of way, means that we can possibly see a way of not being as reliant on Graham, but I don't think Mowbray will think that we're there yet (or anything close, disappointingly). 

There might be a different decision to be made at the end of the year, but keeping Graham at least for one more window should be no-brainier. I hope we keep him next year too, which admittedly will probably be his last. 

3 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

We should be looking to win this match comfortably. Unbeaten at home since September. At what point do we begin to call Ewood a fortress?

I think we're firmly in the 'hard to beat at home' category, but I'd want a few more draws converted into wins before we call it a fortress. The fixture list has been strange too in that we've tended to play almost all of the tough teams away first, so we still have most of the big hitters to come at Ewood. 

Having said that, I can't remember the last time I came away from Ewood thinking we were genuinely outplayed, even if we've picked up some disappointing results. Keep that up and it's definitely an opportunity to have a stronger second half of the season, with some of the lower-hanging fruit away games coming between now and May. 

Wells has been recalled, big blow for them. 

I still really respect GB for lifting some of the gloom from what was the darkest part of our darkest period, and really felt for him when he was sacked. But having seen what some of the players we had during his tenure have gone on to do, it's difficult not to admit that he is tactically limited. Quite surprised that it's still being exposed at such a low level though. 

Hope he turns it around, as I still think he did much much more good here than bad. 

4 minutes ago, neophox said:

Jason Cummnings scored two against Pool, would sign him immediately. 24 years old and striker.

Was meant to be the next big thing for Scottish football at one point but has definitely gone off the boil since leaving Hibs. Would be wary, personally. 

7 minutes ago, Ossydave said:

It's the last 10 games that will count in this league.

Effectively treading water till then will keep you in the mix at present. A few teams are gonna go on a run, it's not likely to be us but we can always live in hope.

Inclined to agree. In my heart of hearts I don't believe it will be us, but I get confidence looking at the fixtures which look quite kind for us. Brentford away scares me, that aside we can accumulate a lot of points if we're consistently near what we can do.

1 hour ago, Pedro said:

Every wasteful signing is a fair leap towards FFP sanctions.  This is proven by the tentative situation we find ourselves in now.

I do think some people overlook and underestimate the wages that players are on and I can't agree that just because one injured player who has a potential value that the transfer 'strategy' during the Mowbray reign is ok - it is dire. For me, there's no such thing as a 'free transfer' and every signing should be potential players for the first team. Loads just aren't worthy of their thousands a week and many of them have been paid for nothing or paid to 'get up to speed  on the grass'.  To put it into context, the annual wages for five or six of those pointless signings equates to the entire revenue from season tickets - yet we get the sob story every year from Mowbray and Waggott that we need more people at the ground with the half season tickets deals etc. and it stops us competing.   Poor business acumen, management and transfer dealings stops us competing.

I agree that investing wisely is vital for any club in this league without parachute payments, and that some of Tony's signings haven't come off.

At the same time I think that it's exactly by the strength of some of TM's signings (as well as with academy players) that we are in a position to trade now in a way that is like night and day with the squad he inherited. I'd say we could've got a couple of million for Lenihan, other than that we had a squad full of toxic assets, in financial terms.

I know not everyone will agree, but a a couple of points which I think are worth making:

• Some of the players marked as failures in the original post made some signficant contributions. Would we have got promoted without P. Downing and Samuel? Maybe, maybe not. We're not seeing any profit from Rodwell, but he played a part in winning games for us last year.
• Every signing is a risk, and it's completely unrealistic to expect every signing a team makes to be a success. Some need to be, Dack needed to be, Tosin needed to be when we didn't bring another centre half in. Arguaby Walton needed to be and he's coming up a bit short, so TM should be the one taking responsibility for it. Sam Hart's wage still contributes towards FFP, but if you get the high ticket stuff right I don't think it's right to use free transfers or players brought in for their potential as evidence that we have been especially profligate when the squad overall is worth more than we paid for it.

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Put the thread on ice until next August.

Don't know, can see us finishing above at least the Dingles, West Ham and Bournemouth without breaking sweat ?

6 minutes ago, Husky said:

Bearing in mind how bad the bottom 3 are I think we're all but safe already with 40 points. ?

Stoke's upturn makes it so hard for the three at the bottom. 5 point gap between Barnsley and safety if they see out a win today, and you think that after their dodgy start that Hudds will continue to pick up enough points to get them over the line.

Doing us a favour beating Swansea too!

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Like it or not but  Dack's worth nothing until he starts playing at his previous level again. Armstrong, we might get more than we paid.. Rothwell, the juries out as to what he's worth but it won't be a lot.

Fair enough on Dack's injury, but my point is that looking at signings one by one, then giving them a yes/no success/failure isn't a misleading and unfair way of looking at how well TM has spent money. If you get the big stuff right, then all the loans and speculative young players who don't make it really don't matter. That's why we remember Sparky for his gems and not his dross, because every mamanger has them.

I'm not especially good at judging transfer values these days, but Armstrong is a young, English lightning quick forward who scores and sets up goals. Inconsistent, yes, but it seems to me that 6 million in the modern game is a fairly conservative estimate of what he could go for. Rothwell on this season's form wouldn't fetch as much, but certainly enough to pay for himself and go a long way in covering most of the other small fees on the likes of Bell, Davenport etc.

12 hours ago, Pedro said:

How many permanent TM signings have actually come good and had an impact that has anywhere near matched their contract?

 

Apologies if I have missed anyone but I think they are largely absolutely pitiful dealings and MILLIONS have been  wasted in fees and wages.  I wouldn't trust him with another penny and (alongside the poor tactics and selections) just don't get the love in with him.

 

 

Some very harsh judgements there for me, plenty of low-risk signings there which have either contributed whilst they were here or still very much have the potential to. Judging Nuttall as not worth his contract when we signed him on a free for the youth team, scored a few goals for us then sold on a profit seems harsh. Some other small investments who were fine, even if they weren't in the plans for the future, like Rodwell or P. Downing.

We didn't worry about wasting money on fees and wages for Maceo Rigters, Bruno Berner and Johan Vogel when the profits from Santa-Cruz and Bentley pay for them fifty times over. I don't see why we should worry about the money 'wasted' on the likes of Hart, Lyons, Caddis, P. Downing or Rodwelll when you think about how much the value has increased for Dack, Armstrong and Rothwell.

Can't disagree that the Brereton transfer is looking more and more like it might be an expensive error, but there's no doubting that the squad's value has increased enormously since TM took over, and by more than the outlay we've spent on transfer fees. Dack might be doing a bit of the heavy lifting for that, but Armstrong's value will have tripled since we signed him and Rothwell is certainly worth much more than the few hundred grand we paid for him.

37 minutes ago, bazza said:

I thought that Friedel and Ince didn't get on (see eye to eye) when they both played for Liverpool and, as soon as Ince was appointed manager, it was Friedel who insisted on leaving. Maybe the investment failure was a smoke screen for the real reason.

Maybe, but in fairness Brad did go bankrupt, and he did basically double his wages to 50k a week if I recall. I think this case is more easily explained by the usual story.

9 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Not bizarre when he was dumped by Coyle and then had to make a decision about whether to work with the wingless wonder. He made the right choice as he’d have been wasted here.

I remember thinking at the time that I genuinely wouldn't have blamed any player from leaving if they got the chance at that point. Felt like an empty vessel of a club.

I'd like to think he would have a lot more to think about if he was coming through now. Mowbray was on record in saying that he would've started in league 1 too, if I recall, so it might have turned out to be for the best for the lad for him to stay, but certainly can't blame him for going given how we all felt at the time. 

Allardyce was good for Robbo, seemed to remember he got himself back in the England squad for a time.

Even so, the fact that we've gone over 10 years without having a satisfactory long term keeper is shocking. 

Shame that we have to wait so long between the 5-0 spanking and this match, would've been a great opportunity to keep the momentum going.

Having said that, they're not travelling well at present, even if they're playing good teams. Soft club who won't be up for a winter midweek away game up north. 

3-0 Rovers

1 minute ago, neophox said:

Borevkovic has alot of potential, only 22 but a giant. Good in the air.

Any idea about what he's like on the ball? Possible Tosin replacement come next year?

Just now, tomphil said:

Hopefully, i think they've missed a trick at Rovers quite a bit in the past not loaning these types out for some games though.  Some get shunted out quick whilst others get kept around for the odd taste of action.  To me if you can arrange them somewhere lower down they'll get regular games right now that surely helps, especially the character building side of it.

Then again i suppose it's easier to pick up bad habits elsewhere.

My instinct is that you're right, playing is the most important thing at his age.

Flip side of that I suppose is that I think it's a mistake to get him playing at a lower level just so he can cope with the game physically. I think the way he gets past that weakness is by using and developing his strength on the ball. We might struggle to find a L1 or L2 team willing to take him and use him properly, but then again playing anywhere is better than not playing at all.

9 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

While we can bemoan some of our recruitment and the speed at our progression, compared to Wigan, it is clear who has done far better since we both came up. 

Definitely. I don't want to use Wigan as a yardstick for what our expectations should be, and doubtless we have made the odd decision on recruitment which might not look like being that wise as things stand, the state of the two teams at present is like night and day.

They were genuinely gutted when Charlie came back to Rovers. That's the difference between where we both are. 

5 minutes ago, tomphil said:

This Buckley talk is very similar to the Jason Lowe talk of years ago.  A hell of a long way to go yet and as we've seen with Brereton and countless others nobody is worth this stupid money talk until they prove something.

Yes, certainly is easy it is to forget just how highly rated he was at one stage. Strangely though the Brereton case shows how big money might well be a possibility even at his stage, we spent money on potential, so there's no reason why teams with much bigger budgets in the top-flight might well do the same. 

On Buckley specifically, I'm still very optimistic. Even the Huddersfield game, for which he got a lot of stick, I remember him getting involved and trying some things which other players wouldn't have been able to see. Execution was off a couple of times, but definite progress from his 5-10 minute spells where he's looked like a little lad. 

Physicality is obviously a problem in the short term, but if his brain and talent are his strengths, he'll learn how to get past that problem in no time.

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Powell was a big loss from them from a creativity, goals and assists point of view. 

I've no fondness for the club (quite the opposite) but I live in the area so I try and keep abreast of their fortunes. You're definitely right on the creativity point, nobody with Powell's ability. It looks on paper as though having Moore, Lowe, Garner and Windass up front along with having no creativity in the middle is tailor made for playing on the break, but for whatever reason it's just not working out for them and the locals are extremely anti-Cook.

Hopefully they'll be back at their level next year. 

8 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Current bottom 3 will go for me, only other other possibility will be Charlton. Hudds and Stoke will pull away.

 

Think that's where the smart money is. Even Charlton I think can put a big part of their bad patch down a silly number of injuries. Can see them picking up slightly.

Wigan are a difficult one to suss out. I don't think their squad is very good, but they've spent plenty and they're definitely under-performing to be cut adrift at this stage. Trouble they seem to have is that when they've put in their better performances, they still haven't found a way to win. 

I think he was unlucky even last season to not get on the score sheet more often. Don't think I've seen a player hit the post as often since Kalinic, who also seemed to have an uncanny knack for it. 

Really pleased to see him kick on. The sort of player he is will mean that he'll probably go through a few quieter spells in the future, but if he carries on the way he is that couple of million quid or whatever we paid is looking like small beer.

4 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Where do we get the replacement though? It will all cost money it doesn't sound like we have. Signing 1 good left back needs to be the priority, not 2 half decent ones! 

It's a fair comment that I'm not actually mentioning any replacements! My view of things is that say we have the money for two left backs (money we might've spent on Cunningham & Bell's contract) then I'd use the money for Cunningham either on him or our 'good' left back target, and use the Bell money on either a useful looking prospect from L1, available from a top flight team or similar for our 'decent/prospect/back up' target.