Agree with this. 3 league defeats to start the season with would be really tough to pull back in terms of making the top 6. That said, it's a marathon not a sprint and based on most reports yesterday there's reasons to be positive. Jury still out on Walton, hopefully once he beds in & becomes used to playing with those ahead of him we will see his benefits over Raya. Am pleased to hear Tosin & Del looked solid. It looks like any combination between Tosin, Del & Lenihan could be decent at Champ level, esp with decent fullback protection which I think Nyambe & Cunningham will provide. I'm not so anti-Bennett as others, but he's not a RB. Think we'll see JRC as the season progresses too from the sounds of things. Hypothetical question for those there yesterday; if that back 5 had played against Charlton, would we have lost that game? My suspicion is not, but I'd be interested to hear your views. As for mids, mixed reviews it seems. Am disappointed to hear Johnson was off the pace, but then if that was due to him & Trav losing steam due to being against a 3 then that's a tactical issue for me rather than anything against those 2 specifically. I'm most worried about us going forward, which I'm not sure many of us had much concern about 10 days ago. We seem to lack a cutting edge / end product to our approach play. Without stating the obvious, we need to find a couple of good front 4 combinations out of Dack, Armstrong, Rothwell, DG, Gallagher, Downing, Chapman & BB. I think Oldham is a good chance to experiment there, I would certainly give BB 60+ mins as a striker & Chapman on the wing. I don't think there's reason to panic yet, but there's work to do at both ends of the pitch. Get a decent freebie CB and find a cutting edge, and I can see us shooting up the table (especially once August is behind us).

We started 4 out of 5 new signings on Saturday anyway, so that's another myth debunked.

Exceptional world class ones have, yes. Incidentally so too has Tosin, who is the only CB Mowbray signed this window so he clearly expects big things from him despite his youth. But that doesn't fit the narrative...

Lenihan certainly didn't appreciate it, he gave Mulgrew a proper dirty look once Walton had made the save.

I think the way he speaks about young players is more just his way of talking and / or a sign of him being from a certain generation, rather than anything malicious or anti-youth. I think picking on his terminology in this context is just another example of certain people having decided TM is no good for us & using it as another stick to beat him with. We had one of the youngest teams / squads in the league last season, and that's even when you consider that Mulgrew, Graham, Conway, & Bennett were all well over 30 & got plenty of appearances. In his time he's given Championship debuts to Raya, Rothwell, Butterworth, Travis, Magloire, Davenport, & Buckley, and has since brought their U23 manager into the first team set up which must be to assist their further integration into the first team squad. I agree that his use of Nyambe & Rothwell was a bit disappointing / surprising and certainly don't think he should be immune from criticism in some respects, but such criticism should be balanced. Overall I think the criticism he gets for his treatment of young players is overhyped & over analysed by some on here.

Cheers. I should've guessed! ?

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2019/august/btp-club-statement/ I don't get to away games but I guess this will have resonance for many of you. It's good that the club are taking a stance on this, but sad that what is (hopefully) a mindless minority are raising the profile of the club in a very unacceptable way. Keep out of trouble fellas, there are some d*ckheads out there.

So 4 out of 6 signings you're alright with or better, including your no 1 priority, yet you only score the window 3/10? That doesn't make sense.

Defensively our options are: GK Walton, Leutweiler. Potential to be better than last season, but time will tell re Walton. RB Nyambe, Bennett, JRC, Travis. I hope in that order, at least this season. IF Nyambe fulfils his potential & is regularly picked, I think that reasonable. LB Cunningham, Bell, Downing, Williams, Hart. Plenty of cover there, definitely upgraded. CB Lenihan, Tosin, Williams, Nyambe, Grayson, *Magloire, *Wharton. I agree 1 CB short, and reliant on Tosin being good (I'm hopeful given his pedigree). Hopefully this is marginally better than the end of last season. Could be improved further with freebie (eg Lynch). I think a foursome of Nyambe, Lenihan, Tosin or Wiiliams, Cunningham is far better than what started v Charlton. Or a quintet of Nyambe or Bennett, Lenihan, Tosin, Williams, & Cunningham / Bell / Downing would also be decent for this level. I'm not sure either of those lineups will figure on Saturday because good defences work as units. Cunningham has just arrived, so I for one would understand if he does not play on Saturday. I don't know why some don't accept that that would be legitimate. It can't be because TM doesn't start new signings because 4 out of 5 started on Saturday. So it must be because he wants his defenders to have an understanding of each other's game & to work as a unit. As for the window overall, I'd give it 6 out of 10 just now, which could fall to 4 or rise to 8 as the season progresses. I was hoping to be able to say 7 or 8 at this time, so that's disappointing but I see plenty enough not to call it a shambles / catastrophe / shambolic. I like Johnson, Downing & Gallagher & I'm not bothered that Walton, Tosin & Cunningham are loans. It's the modern way and it gives our many younger prospects the dangling carrot of a route into the first team in 12 months time, which they wouldn't have if those signings were permanent. We can't have it all ways. We either buy perms (which risks cutting off youngsters' routes into the squad), or we sign loans & keep the youngsters interested. People want signings but the same people complain if he doesn't play youngsters, but there's only 11 players can play at any one time. Maybe I'm being too generous to TM. He makes mistakes but I like to be optimistic. I'm not going to say top 6, but I think top 10 is realistic and with a good run that could be improved. With our options & cover, I think it unlikely we'll be struggling against relegation.

Cheers Skip. Any idea if we gave them a closer game than the scoreline might suggest, standout performers or injuries? Any sign of Samuel or Williams? Sorry for the bombardment!

I can't advocate Mowbray out now. Totally the wrong timing, though I do get the concern and share a lot of it. The time to next judge him (as opposed to just discuss or debate his actions) is after 10 league games, when matters inside the club & in the division have settled down a little. There is no doubting that this week is massive for him in terms of signings in & out, loan or permanent, then he has a tough looking run of fixtures to negotiate. I think by then if we've been served up with more of the same & there's no sign of progression then at best he'll be on very thin ice with most fans (me included), if not the owners. I still believe he will actively look to improve the team this week with at least 1 solid CB. Not bothered if permanent or on loan. He's more than hinted at such, some ITKers on here have posited it and we certainly need it! TM deserves huge credit for what he's done to date, now he needs to push on or accept the consequences. He'll know that, having been in the game do long. And I really don't think he'll be immune from a sacking either if Venkys aren't happy with the season's developments.

I don't think it was an U23s game Stuart, just a Utd 11 v Rovers U23s. I suspect it was hastily arranged to give the Utd players more game time, or maybe it's something that they normally do versus Bolton but couldn't this season for obvious reasons & we stepped in last minute. Pure speculation on my part mind, but it would make sense.

Hmm, maybe not Chaddy...!

I hear the U23s were beaten 4-0 by Man Ure today in a behind closed doors game. Not yet learned the Rovers line up but Utd's starting lineup was Romero, Dalot, Darmian, Smalling, Jones, Pogba, Lingard, Sanchez, Gomes, Daniel James, Fred, Greenwood. Pogba also got 30 mins. Sounds like that was quite a test for our youngsters!

I agree to an extent, and think Downing will be valuable across the season. But if Rothwell & Downing are both to play then one of them has to go on the right, but that's where I think Arma would be more effective and less of a square peg in a round hole than either Downing or Rothwell. I'd interchange Downing & Rothwell during this season, more often than not using Downing off the bench to either add composure & noise when leading late in games or for a probing pass or pinpoint cross to unlock defences where Rothwell might have been nullified.

It's going to be one of those unpredictable seasons. Cardiff losing at Wigan (despite Warnock), Fulham at Barnsley, Preston at Millwall (despite Bauer), Big Club winning at Brentford (despite Raya). We need to be consistently better in all depts of course (Johnson & Travis excused) and lessons must be learnt from yesterday. I'm confident that they will be, though some ought to have been learnt already, but there will be turnups every single week, I'm hopeful that this is just that.

Looking at the bigger picture, it's one defeat (albeit a painful one). Nothing was ever lost or won on day one, but we need a reaction. Yesterday's results were a set of unpredictable ones, which I think shows this will be a season like few others. I think we'll often get better results against the better teams that attack us and leave gaps at the back and struggle to break down defensive set ups that hit us on the counter. However, that's only if we improve defensively. I don't think we should go to Fulham cowed by yesterday. They lost too & there will be tension down there that we can take advantage of just as Charlton did to us yesterday. Same with the other tough fixtures coming up, but we need to play with more fluency & be tighter at the back. Nyambe in Bennett out, Tosin in Mulgrew out, DG or BB in Gally out, Rothwell in Downing out.

That was a hard watch yesterday and I totally get peoples' anger and frustration at TM's line up, tactics, and substitutions. I've been a staunch defender of his decisions and still believe his intentions are absolutely genuine and he has the ability to build a top 6 team here, but yesterday he got too much wrong and gave grist to the mill of those who want him gone. He needs a good week this week in terms of signing a decent, solid, experienced CB at the very, very least. I would have started Rothwell not Downing (with Rothwell left & Arma right), Nyambe not Bennett, and BB (or DG) not Gally. I think criticising Walton is harsh. Even great keepers need their defence to not give cheap balls away, the midfield to track back, and CBs to win headers 12 yards out at set pieces. I don't know why Bennett played, should've been Nyambe. He was deffo THE weak link, not a right back. He needs to play CM if at all, though there's no room for him there in our best starting 11. TM needs to see this now before it's too late. I like his passion & enthusiasm but that's not enough. Mulgrew was far too hesitant again. I get why he started but he must be treated as backup now with a view to being moved on next window or summer. Again, respect what he's done but can't be part of taking us further, he's just not good enough. Bell frustrates. There's a player there but he lacks confidence & self belief. It could due to those alongside of him. I would persevere as better CB protection could be his making. But I'd also like to see Hart given a go there, or Martin Olssen brought in. Johnson was excellent & so much better than Evan's & Smallwood. Travis was good alongside of him too, they were our best point today & bodes well for the season. Not sure why Travis got subbed, was there an injury? If not, that was amongst TM's strangest decisions. Downing I liked, showed good composure & vision. Why was he on the right though?? Another strange one. And he ought not to have missed the ball with that 1st half chance. Armstrong I thought did ok, albeit with no end product in the end. He actually looked our most potent threat. Again, subbing him when we did & putting Gallagher in his place was another strange one. Gallagher also did ok imo, hussled & harried but didn't really have a clear cut chance to shoot. Faded badly after being moved right, certainly not his strongest position. Another one for TM to try to justify. Dack was pretty much invisible for me bar the odd sprinkle of magic. Am getting a bit worried about him tbh, hope he finds his mojo soon. He needs to learn how to play without DG being there. Lenihan - did ok especially in the context of the rest of the back 4, (not saying much I know) but his crossfield balls need work or to be cut out completely. All the subs were strange for me. Timing of them was poor, we were well on top and I saw no reason at that point to make a double sub. If I were to make subs, initially I would've kept Arma on & taken Gally off for either DG or BB. I would've then done a straight swap for Rothwell with Downing. If needed, I'd then have brought Dack off for whichever of DG or BB was still on the bench. Buckley was absolutely the wrong choice, and ineffective. Rothwell too was ineffective when he came on. Tony has a BIG week ahead of him.

Time will tell, but I'd say this is pessimistic. For me so far: Incoming signings ok to potentially v good value for money. Travis' new deal arguably the best of the lot. Outgoings: understandable, more needed. Kept Dack, Lenihan & Travis = big plus. Add in young emerging talent plus signing(s) to be made (hopefully, and no big sales), things are looking up imo.

I agree with pretty much all that. I'd have Martin Olssen back in a flash, but not Marshall.

Really looking forward to today, back to my Second Home in the Riverside after what seems an age! I think this'll be either my 30th or my 31st consecutive season ticket holder (I'll check with my dad later!), so I'm hoping for a good, confident, imposing start on the road to top 6... My team would be: Walton, Nyambe, Lenihan, Mulgrew, Bell Johnson, Travis Armstrong, Dack, Rothwell, Brereton Subs: Leutweiler, Downing, Tosin, DG, Gallagher, Buckley, Bennett. I think DG will be used more sparingly this season, perhaps against stronger teams where his bulk & noise for holding the ball up and winning set pieces will be more valuable. Same with Downing. Make the most of a confident BB I say, let's see what we paid all that money for.

Do we know it was "Mowbray's fault" that the deal took so long? Or is it just another of those assumptions that get played out as fact to beat him with? It seems to me that Tosin was identified quite early in the window but that, for unknown (to us) reasons, the deal took far longer to complete than was anticipated. Wasn't it said on here by an ITKer (Bbrovers?) that Mowbray was tearing his hair out at the length of time this deal was taking? That suggests to me a delay on the player / City / agent's side rather than ours. If it was TM or the club driving a harder bargain out of City, I don't mind that one bit as I'd rather the club was not fleeced. The other alternative is that it was a Venkys-inspired delay, which could never be ruled out even for a relatively modest loan deal... but hardly "Mowbray's fault". Last minute deals is just a symptom of having a time-limited window; it's the same with any negotiation process. Far bigger deals (good and bad) will be done by other clubs far later in the day than this. Hell, Swansea sold McBurnie yesterday for £20m; imagine that was us selling Dack, Lenihan or Travis, that would keep the mods busy!

"What's that coming over the hill, is it an Abdul-Nasir Oluwatosin Oluwadoyinsolami Adarabioyo, is it an Abdul-Nasir Oluwatosin Oluwadoyinsolami Adarabioyo?"

It's fine to criticise Mulgrew for the errors he made, but phrases such as "If Mulgrew starts, we lose. End of." are disrespectful, as are other comments made about him in this thread. I happen to agree that his best days are behind him and he ought not to play just because he's club captain. But I'm comfortable with him starting on Saturday as TA has just landed, we've no other fit senior specialist CB available and this ought to be one of our easier games this season (at least defensively). Within 2 or 3 games, I'm confident that TA and / a new CB will be starting, unless Mulgrew pulls up trees; if he does, then he deserves to carry on. Re Nuttall, good luck to him. I'd have preferred a loan as he could tear it up for Blackpool given proper game time because he knows where the net is, but if we got a good fee (as it seems we did) and there's either a good sell on or buy back clause, then I think it makes sense all round.

If an attacking player pushes someone in a wall or leans them out of the way, it should be a foul like it would be if it happened anywhere else on the pitch. That's what happens when attacking players line up in a wall, but all it does is slow the game down & encourages argy bargy in the wall. I'm quite happy with this change. Putting an attacking player in the wall is a relatively recent tactic as well I think, this is just a change to facilitate reverting back to what was probably the original intention when the 10 yard rule was brought in in the first place.