If that's true then I for one am glad that it's rumbled on and that we've not allowed ourselves to be bullied into giving City guarantees about the number of games played, which to my mind they have no right to expect. Yes one can argue that they're doing us a favour by loaning us one of their starlets, and I understand that they want to expose him to as many challenges as possible, but to actually want it written into the arrangement that he plays X number of games is out of order IMO. Good for TM I say. He should decide who plays for us and when, not Pep.

Well if the aim of friendlies is to build confidence by beating teams and build fitness by giving all players good game time, then it would appear to have been successful, albeit against inferior opposition (perhaps Rangers aside). If it is to put into practise a change in our style of play, then again it would appear to have been successful from what I've read from those who've attended. We seem to be quite fluid & less reliant on a long ball up to DG to hold up/knock down. If it's to finalise a first 11 to start the season with, then almost undoubtedly it's been less successful. I'm not at all confident about the defence (as it stands) which I think we all agree seems no stronger than last season personnel wise, despite what TM said which is disappointing. That said, it's possible that with better midfield protection & ball retention we could become more game savvy & thus avoid 3 or 4 away drubbings (which in my view distorted our record massively last season) as well as avoid conceding late goals. TM though will lose (has lost?) face with many (me included) by not getting in at least one specialised & experienced CB. I still think he will, but that's perhaps more blind hope than tangible confidence. Going forward, I think we're well stocked with exciting options, so credit where it's due there. There's pace, power & trickery with any number of combinations in midfield & up front, and I think we'll give opponents much to think about in that sense. BB especially should get huge confidence from his pre-season goal return, what an asset he could be. I expect outgoings will be Smallwood, Nuttall, JRC & Grayson (probably all on loan), MacGloire too if 1 or 2 new CBs arrive. Buckley & Butterworth to stick around at least until January, see if they can have an impact as starters in league cup games and in Championship games off the bench. Johnson's promotion could have a huge impact there. I'm giving the window 6 out of 10 so far. 2 more signings could make it 8 or 9; please Tony, Steve, Venkys, give us that chance to really push for it this season, it could be very exciting.

This is looking v promising.

Looking at Rangers' forum, they thought Jayson was excellent and one even asked when they were signing him. I can't marry that up with much of what I've read on here about his performance today? Not that it matters much I guess, as he almost certainly won't play against Charlton. Most of the Rangers posters said their starting 11 was v strong, perhaps only a couple of players short of their 1st 11, leading to more of them predicting a 3 or 4 goal drubbing (though tbf some also thought we'd be their strongest test to date, and so it proved). On that score we did well, esp as they've already had several competitive matches, albeit against much inferior opposition. I'm pretty sure a new GK, Travis, Rothwell & possibly Gallagher will all start versus Charlton. Possibly also a new CB. I think that 1st half team is a long way from TM's preferred first 11 but he clearly needed to give players game time as that, and experimenting with tactics, is what friendlies are for, esp when there's 2 more matches to go (probably more inc some behind closed doors).

It gets the thumbs up for me I think. It's good to try something different and a little bit "out there". And it certainly looks better on the players than on a hanger. That said, i would've preferred red & black halves...

Not really. Granted Adam phoned us to request training facilities, but isn't that the sign of a model pro looking to keep himself in good shape? Sounds like he has desire to me, going off that. Furthermore he only played to make up numbers after Lyons pulled up injured. Can't blame him for saying yes when asked, nor TM for asking him when short on numbers due to injury. Downing is not a desperate signing either IMO. A good, experienced old head for our many younger players to look up to. Provided future signings balance out the youth v experience ratio, it's every chance of being a good move. Changing subject a little, it's been mentioned that we should've been all over Pontus Jansson as being the tough no nonsense CB we all crave; but didn't we have him & his mates on toast when we played Leeds at Ewood last season? I didn't see much there that warrants 5.5m, though admittedly that's only 1 game.

Got to love the way how, to support your anti-Mowbray sentiment, you don't include mention the actual signing of Bradley Johnson (which is widely thought to be fairly astute), yet do include mention of 2 players we haven't actually signed and may never do, nor anyone like them! FWIW I could accept Adam's signing IF he proves to TM that he still has the ability & desire, and the price is right in terms of his wages. Of course we'll probably never know the latter, and many won't trust TM's judgment on the former 2 until he proves it in their own eyes.

Both Mr Westfall and Dr Noisewater would be upset right now if they were mine!!

And the club's sake of course, which is totally far more important.

I'm definitely caught between 2 stools on this one Brave move by TM, hope for his sake he has a quality replacement in the bag or it could come to define him.

Johnson - v good signing I reckon, esp on a free. Good top-end championship experience, will be great for Travis & Davenport to play alongside of across the season. Raya - disappointed but coming round to the idea if replaced by Darlow, much more commanding & perfect age. If we get a good price for Raya with good sell on clause, I'll be ok with that. Please though, not Hart. Gallagher - if he can reproduce what he did in that half season - minus Preston - across a full season, I'm all on board with that. £5m may be a tad too much, but it's a crazy market. We can't afford Prem league loanees, and whilst I'm all for trying out younger strikers from lower down we need more than that in the short - medium term. Graham is my current no 1 but this must be his last season as 1st choice, Gallagher is the perfect age to take his mantle, alongside BB who I still believe will round his doubters. Hanley - a bit meh; wouldn't say no but would like us to be a bit more adventurous. (Could say same about Gallagher too.) Not fussed on missing out on Bauer, don't think he would improve us much. This is where I think we should look to benefit most from the Euro scouts, though it seems this summer might be a bit soon for that. I can't subscribe to the view this is a poor window so far. Clearly there's a long way to go with ins & outs and it could go either way, but I'd say we're doing ok & clearly are able to attract good Ch'ship stock, a la Johnson, unlike some had feared. We're getting a good blend of youth & experience, with some excellent prospects coming through the U23s. Looks rather promising IMO

Nah, he was at his best in the summer of 69.

Cheers; if ever there was a player who achieved unexpected success through sheer dedication & steely determination over skill and finesse, it was Super Atko. He had limited ability as a Premier League midfielder but boy did he make up for it in graft & commitment, fully deserving of his place in history. If only we had a couple like him now in CM... he'd be right up TM's street that's for sure!

Fair point, maybe I wasn't as clear as I could've been in that first post about what was riling me, and should've expanded more like I went on to later in response to you. I don't have much time to contribute on here so sometimes don't manage to get my full point across as I'd like. I still believe TM gets too much of a hard time from many on here, which spills over into being disrespectful to him which he doesn't deserve. There's constructive criticism, then there's conspiracy theories... On Bauer, I'm not too fussed we've missed out on him, albeit it doesn't look great to have courted him for so long only to then miss out on him to PNE. I would've questioned the wisdom of signing him in order to be 1st choice as he has no real pedigree at this level to justify that billing and if he did not like the idea of fighting for his place amongst equals then I'm not sure he was what we need anyway. TM did say in the forum that defenders (plural) are coming; he would no doubt have said the same to Bauer which might've made him think it would be too much competition, whereas PNE might not be looking for anyone else in his position. It's speculative I guess, who knows. On Hanley, I'd be happy with that as a loan or permanent, I think he was vastly underrated by many at Rovers and thought in that last season he was a class act for this level. If he and Leni could strike up a partnership I reckon that alone could save us 15-20 goals, which would be enough to push us into top 6 territory even if we don't improve up front (which I think we will, be it thru new blood or existing younger players improving (i.e. the U23s and BB, Rothwell, Davenport, Armstrong, Dack, Travis). Ever the optimist eh?! ?

There's nothing wrong with fair and constructive critique Matty, but when it creeps over into suggesting that he's manipulating the club / owners / fans for his own ends so he can get his kids through private school (for example) or that he's only interested in getting jobs for the boys (as another example), it goes too far and is disrespectful, which he doesn't deserve. I'm sure he's thick skinned enough not to be too bothered, and is maybe less bothered than I am! But I think he ought to get more appreciation from many fans on here given the dire situation we were in when he arrived.

From my perspective, Downing is an unexpected start to summer's dealings but surely not the last arrival. He's certainly got great experience to bring to a young team as Chapman openly stated, so he should be viewed as just 1 piece of the overall jigsaw. On a separate note, whilst I'm all for people discussing opinions and speculating on transfers, budgets, fees paid, missed opportunities on new players etc. which is all part & parcel of being a fan, IMO some on here go too far in their criticism of TM. No he's not ruthless, he's not Mr Motivator, but he's clearly got integrity & decency as a human being and the respect of many stalwarts within the game because of it. I believe he is trying to do right by the club and us fans, not feather his own nest as many on here would have us believe. He can't please everyone, who can? He's made mistakes and will make more. But he's helped bring a sense of normality to a crazy club, under crazy owners, which we could have only dreamed of 2 years ago. So please can folk on here not use any signing another club makes, any quote another manager makes about their vision for their club, any & every inconsistent comment TM might make from time to time, or even the order in which players sign for the club (!!) as a stick to beat him with? He should only be judged on this summer's dealings in August, not before.

You could say the same about many club legends for us, Garner & Tugay being the obvious ones. Don't get me wrong, I hope he gets better for the greater benefit of the club (whether that's achieving success here or a bringing in a massive transfer fee) and himself, but if Garner/Tugay status is all he ends up achieving at the end of his career I'll take that as a Rovers fan, even if it could be legitimately argued by then that he didn't make the most of his natural talent from this point onwards.

Or, there could be a positive slant to this as in maybe the budget agreed in Pune is bigger than was expected and allows us to spend more on experienced Championship players than was previously anticipated? Just saying...

What was it they paid for Will Grigg? £4m?? Sheesh.

Wow. Harsh. He's obviously not been a world beater & I hope his place in the squad is taken by a better option, but if any player (or employee in any walk of life) gives good, loyal, professional service across a quarter of their whole career as he has done, the very least he'd deserve would be some proper appreciation and best wishes for the future, rather than a dismissive "Next".

Sad to see him leave but time catches up with us all in the end. He was a crucial part of that nearly team under Bowyer, and did as much as the more vaunted Rhodes & Gestede to get us back up, without getting the plaudits externally that most of us fans recognised he deserved. Latterly he was obviously a true pro, giving his all on the occasions called upon and still showing glimpses of his outstanding crossing ability (albeit not consistently), whilst when not involved showed his maturity & strength as a team player to the younger ones, who surely could not have had a better role model to look up to within the squad. Would be nice if he was kept on in some form of coaching role, though I feel he'll fancy a last season or 2 playing in Scotland before he hangs up his boots. Whatever comes next for him, I wish him the absolute best & thank him for giving loyal service to us throughout a turbulent time in our history. Good luck Bull (if I may)!!

Can't rule it out, but he's probably not top of Gibson's list. I think that would be more a "heart over head" decision from their perspective. If they did approach him though I don't think he'd leave unless it was good money & he was given a decent budget as I think he recognises he's onto quite a good thing here to build his own project. Boro is now arguably a less attractive job to TM than Rovers. They'll have to scale back on their costs a lot & sell their better players due to FFP. TM would effectively have to start all over again, with perhaps added greater expectation from the fans of promotion than there are here.

Boaz Myhill been released by W Brom today... could do worse as competition for Raya?

Well done all. I'm quite new on here & am still finding my way around what's available on here outside of the forums (fora? forae?), but it's clearly well produced & well thought of by so many for all its content; so cheers those involved & in the know for taking the time to give the rest of us a platform to show our varied shades of love, support, frustration, annoyance & downright peed-offness with our beloved BRFC.

W Brom 1 up at half time at Aston Villa after a defensive mistake by Villa, Dwight Gayle notching his 24th goal of the season. Villa huffing & puffing but no real threat so far apparently. Looking good for the Baggies so far (and JacknOry)