Aye, leave it there and agree to disagree.

Those who no longer attend, or who still attend but as walk ons? If it's the latter, then they would need replacing by new walkons for your theory to hold. This is why I think it's too simplistic to say 'increase STs and overall attendances will increase the same'.

Yep, They're quietly creeping up & in touch of the play offs now.

Which part of the fanbase, is my question. Elapsed season ticket holders who no longer attend? Elapsed season ticket holders who are now walk ons? Elapsed walk ons who aren't currently attending at all? For your theory to hold true (1,000 increase in STs = 1,000 overall increase for the Forest game), where the 1,000 comes from matters.

Where would they come from?

Forest at home this week. If we had an extra 1,000 season ticket holders, do you thnk the home attendance would have gone up by 1,000?

They do pay and go to some games though (Boro/Preston etc). But run of the mill games, no. Your point is valid though. It's all too easy to watch games from home, either legally or otherwise.

We have what 12k supporters now (season tickets + walk ons) ? I'm not convinced that if we had more season ticket holders, our attendances would have been much different thus far this season.

I don't disagree with this. I have family members - ex season ticket holders - who now only go to the odd game at Ewood and primarily watch on iFollow/Sky or a dodgy stream otherwise. I asked them why they don't go to Ewood more. The answer ... 'it's too expensive'. ie the product isn't good enough/value for money.

You're arguing that attendances are simply a direct consequence of season ticket sales. I'm aruguing that attendances - both season ticket sales and walk on sales - are a direct consequence of the product on offer. The club can't simply just 'increase season tickets'. There has to be a driver behind that, which is primarily the product on offer. All other things being equal, improve the product, season ticket sales increase, walk ons increase, and overall attendances increase. The solution is to improve the product on offer, the rest should then follow.

Yeah - and the season after I'd expect season ticket sales to increase again, all things being equal. Why? Because the product has improved. Our season ticket sales this year went down versus last season. I'd suggest the main reason why was the product being worse. Why don't you share your stats? Perhaps then we can see what other factors may influence the numbers.

And why would the number of season ticket holders have dropped in the first place? Because of the product on offer, that's why. I'll say it again. Season ticket sales and walk on sales are a direct consequence of the product on offer. Improve that, and both go up. You're whole argument is flawed on the basis that lapsed season ticket holders simply all disappear. That's just not true. Anyway, to repeat, the source of truth is with the club. They should know their customer base far better than we do.

Overall crowds don't fall because season tickets fall. They'll both fall or rise togther, mainly as a result of success on the pitch; they're both symptoms of the same thing. Anyway, we're just guessing and surmising here. The source of truth will be the club's commericial and marketing teams. Or it should be!

Not every lapsed season ticket holder suddenly becomes a non-attendee. Some will - as MattyBlue has evidenced - but some become walk ons - as I have evidenced.

Talking Heads - Road To Nowhere

Whatever the case, as Rigger points out, the club needs to be doing a lot more to not only increase ST numbers, but to find ways of appealing to a larger market.

In my experience that isn't the case. Most of mates who were season ticket holders now pick and choose. They haven't disappeared completely.

I agree. If we had more season ticket holders, that increase would likely come from the 'floating fan' pool, which in turn would reduce. Hence the overall attendance wouldn't necessarily increase, rather the make up would change. The trick to increasing attendances is to find fans who are currently not attending at all.

The bigger issue we have with Mowbray, IMO, is his contract position. At some point, a decision is going to have to be made as to whether he stays or goes come season end. The longer it's left, the bigger a problem it becomes as we could be in a situation of not only havng to replace players on expired contracts, but prior to that having to find a new manager. On one hand, Mowbray laments the situation with those players whose contracts are expiring, but on the other hand is seemingly content to let his own situation drift.

Yeah hopefully BDS, always a worry though. Reading between the lines of that article, I wonder if he's looking to bring Pickering back in, but also keep Giles in the side, hence the mention of changing formation? I'm not aware of Pickering playing for the U23s, so his match fitness must be questionable.

It's one thing confusing the opposition pre-match. It's another thing to bring confusion onto the pitch, which we all know has happened before.

Mogga is contemplating going back to 4 at the back. https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19915753.blackburn-rovers-tony-mowbray-weighs-formation-change/ Just keep it simple and changes to a minimum, please Tony. Stick to what works.

Are Buckley and Rothwell capable of stepping up? Arguably, if they were, after 31 games they would have done so already.

I see Mowbray is bemoaning the side 'missing great chances' in his post match interview. Let's see what he does - if anything - about it for WBA.

Well you obviously get your kicks from it, judging by the amout of posts you've made on the subject!