Didn't realise he was part of Leicester's title win. Interesting titbit in his wiki, albeit a quote from 8 years ago: Former teammate Andrej Kramarić once said of Schlupp, "I've never played with a more powerful player than Jeffrey Schlupp, such power and speed like I've never seen before."[46] Hopefully he has retained a good portion of that power and speed.

If Atcheson is on loan to a NLN side, and Olson on loan to a NL side, surely Olson is ahead of Atcheson in the pecking order (on present ability, not on potential).

He certainly sounds like a bit of a member, I dunno about on here.

More chance we get bought by Michael Scott than by Scott Michaels.

Indeed, but Scott Wharton had 2 Championship appearances and 9 League Two by the time he turned 20, Carter was a bit slower to get a breakthrough loan initially but had 2 Championship appearances around the time he was 19/20, and he was 21 when he had finished his first loan, which was in League One (24 appearances, 4 goals, plus he had another Championship appearance before it). So he's a bit behind both those players in his development I'd say, but if he lands a professional loan next season, which might be possible if he keeps playing well in the National League, I guess you can't rule him out if we keep him for a few more years (dunno his contract situation) and get him more development loans. Like you say though, in the short term his obstacles are Litherland and Atcheson.

Interesting, at 20 I wondered if they might try to find him a League Two loan, as time is running out to convince he can break into our first team squad...tbf maybe we already think he won't, or maybe there just wasn't any interest to drum up.

I'd suggest that's an unwise and untenable strategy. There are very few players who both fit our budget and have experience in this league or higher, and can also get goals. Riis might be the only one, and I'm not convinced he's in our budget. Especially since PNE will be reluctant to sell to us. We can want those sorts of players all we like, but with the money we have it's hard to see us getting any strikers like that. Other positions it may be workable, but anyone who is scoring goals at this level comes at a premium. If we stick to that, more likely our 'English experience' is going to end up being a youth loanee from a Prem club. Which may turn out to be great, but it doesn't really fit the criteria of being sure they'll hit the ground running (I'd certainly take Barry though from Villa, or Cannon, maybe the only such players I'm aware of who stands a decent chance of hitting the ground running, but we're unlikely to get to the front of the queue for those). There are great deals to be found abroad, look at Tronstad. Didn't take long to bed in either.

That's a ridiculous statement. RF99 is one of the better posters on here. I don't always agree with him, but he has a decent understanding of the game and wider strategy, and certainly doesn't display any less football knowledge than yourself or Chaddy do (Chaddy's wide knowledge of obscure players aside, I'm talking in general terms about the game). You simply disagree. Do so politely instead of claiming he doesn't understand football because he doesn't believe every rumour that comes from yourself or Nixon, and doesn't beat the positivity drum.

Cheaper than normal isn't the same as being affordable though. TAA is out of contract this summer, but of course we can't remotely afford that one. Riis is obviously far more realistic, but our budget appears to be very small and it may still be a stretch. More likely we'd be looking at players from foreign leagues who are out of contract in 6 months. Our ability to pre-contract them would really force their clubs into selling cheap now, plus they're usually cheaper to begin with. Heard one or two players from Scandinavian leagues mentioned in this bracket, though I forget their names.

Haha fair enough! I'm not saying they all do. Some do. Some don't. I don't think there are many who have the same pace they had at 21 though. Plenty retain the majority of it, but relatively few are every inch as fast. I can't think of a single fast 32 year old we have had, can you? As I said, I haven't seen the lad lately, maybe he is still quick. Experience is definitely beneficial. Like you I've also learnt more about positioning, how to exploit space, I've developed more tricks to overcome my lost pace, etc. Nobody is disputing his experience. But what this team is lacking is the ability to stretch teams on the counter, I think we are doing about as well as we can with that without adding some genuine pace. Experience is handy and it will be a definite plus to potentially signing him, but it's not the be all. Weimann is the same age with tons of experience, albeit not as much of it in the Prem. Some games he looks quality, some games he looks over the hill.

We should also consider, whether we play Beck or ACD depends partly on whether their parent clubs give us permission. I'd imagine getting permission for Baker won't be a problem, but Liverpool and Brighton may still have thoughts of recalling their lads.

I'm not convinced there's any point preventing O'Riordan from going out on loan again. I don't see him being any use to us for the rest of the season other than in the cup games or maybe during a massive CB injury crisis. He probably doesn't make the bench at present, let alone when Carter is back in Feb. Garrett, I do think has a place in the squad, and I wouldn't be loaning him back out. Closest player we have to Travis in style. Not as good of course, won't displace him, but I feel we should use him as cover. Even when he's back, Travis can't play every game. He picks up suspensions and injuries, and perhaps as importantly, whenever we have rushed him back or kept playing him all the time when he's clearly knackered in recent years, he has been far worse. Even if it's just filling in when he's out, and bringing him on at 70 or 80 minutes when the game is won, I think Garrett can be useful. He's nothing special at the moment but he's much better than some posters on here make out. Gilsenan and Tyjon won't be playing, they're not fit. I don't believe Gilsenan has even played for the U21s this season. Tyjon wasn't in the squad in the last PL2 game, which was mid-December, and hasn't made the first team bench since September. I think he's not fit anyway. This will be an interesting match in terms of selection, not an easy one. I wish we had landed some shit League Two side, would have been a great testing grounds for young players. But Boro away, we could easily exit the cup and lose more morale if we field a weak side. Hard to say if Toth will play...it's not like Pears needs a rest as he's only a GK. We'd all like to see what Toth has, but given we will likely rest a lot of players, it's a bit of a gamble, as nobody can lose you a game quicker than the wrong keeper. If we end up under the cosh though because we weaken the side, Pears could end up losing confidence if he plays.

Gibson's operation of Boro hasn't been majorly successful in recent years (but still far moreso than Venkys), so I agree you couldn't put them in the category of a Brentford or Brighton for being well ran recently. But he also won a lot of credit in the bank for essentially overseeing Boro's glory years. Their only real trophy, a UEFA Cup final and an FA Cup final. A good stint in the Prem, with quality players like Juninho and Ravanelli. He is in an utterly different league to Venkys as an owner, even with their recent underachievement relative to his financial input. You say they're waxing huge amounts to stay in the Championship...but at least they have indeed stayed in it, plus a promotion. Three playoff spot finishes too, the playoffs are a lottery. A bit more luck and they'd have more promotions too. We haven't even once reached the playoffs since we came down, and until recent seasons almost never even sat in the playoff spots mid-season. Again even with the underachievement, it's been a far better underachievement than ours. As for what Venkys should spend...every fucking penny they can spare and are allowed to put in within the rules. This is their mess, plain and simple. I could understand them tightening the purse strings if they were willing to sell the club, but they aren't willing to even entertain bids for the club, and they've had interest they turned away out of hand. If they're not going to put their hands in their pockets anymore they need to fuck off. Personally I think 15 mill is a bit much perhaps, but there should have been about 8-10 million of the 40 million we've reaped in fees made available (I think the poster you mention perhaps forgot those signings will need decent wages too). Those well-ran clubs you mentioned have reinvested bigger proportions than that from their sales when they were down here.

They're called solidarity payments, and they're seperate to training compensation payments (the latter of which stop applying once the season in which the player turned 23 is over): https://www.lawinsport.com/topics/item/a-guide-to-training-compensation-and-solidarity-payments-in-football I believe they also apply in addition to any other percentage of future sale clauses agreed between clubs (I don't know if their percent is applied after contractual percentages are paid out, before, or simultaneously). So we'll get whatever is in the deal with Palace plus another percent from solidarity payments. The link I just gave doesn't say how the solidarity payment is worked out, but it does mention the max is 5%. If I'm remembering rightly, the solidarity payments apply for clubs who trained the player between ages 12 and 21 (or it might be 23). So, I think it's 5% of the total transfer fee, split pro-rata between clubs who trained him in that period. So we would get the lion's share of any 5% of a deal this window or next, as we trained him from 12 to 19 and he's currently 20, but our chunk of future fees might shrink as we'll be a relatively smaller section of his trained, although still be entitled to the bulk. If he is moving after 23, I'd imagine we'll get 7 years, other clubs 4 years, so if the 5% amounted to 5.5 million for example (which would mean a 110 million fee!), we'd get another 3.5 million in solidarity payments, and other clubs would get a total 2 mill. Obviously since solidarity payments are a percentage, they only apply when a player is transferred for a fee (presumably being transferred for compensation would also make them apply, so Preston will be due a small slice of what we might get for Dolan if he moves for compo in the summer). Although, it might not work quite like that actually with Dolan...I think they are due some of the training compensation if I'm reading that article right, which might mean the solidarity payment won't apply for that one. Since I think they trained him up until 18, I'm thinking Preston might be due about 2/5 of what we get? But I'm not sure I'm understanding that right. This part of that article is confusing: Pursuant to the RSTP, purely domestic transfers of professional players do not give rise to an entitlement on the part of training club(s) to receive training compensation or a solidarity payment (see the “Scope” definition in Article 1 RSTP); It seems to be saying transfers between two English clubs would mean no need for training compo or solidarity payments...but this is the opposite of what we know happens when an out of contract player moves between two English clubs. It's if he moves abroad that no compo is necessary, whereas domestic moves oblige it if the original club offered an equal or better contract than the current one. Maybe this bit is getting mistranslated by myself from legalese. This one might bring further context but I CBA to read it all: https://www.easportslaw.com/news/training-compensation-and-solidarity-mechanism I'm also not sure if clubs who trained a player because they loaned him count...ie, if we would get something from a Harvey Elliott sale. I doubt it.

Yes they do, that's not what I meant. I was just musing as to whether he was out of contract or not (ie if we would have had to negotiate a fee also). Having trained at a club between certain ages also means that club gets a tiny portion of any future revenue on all transfers for the rest of his career. So we'll be getting a tiny slice of all future Adam Wharton fees, even if he moves another ten times.

Tbf, in hindsight it would have been the right move. Only because we failed to reach the playoffs and lost him for free anyway. But at the time it was a tough decision. It could have gone exactly how it did, or Rothwell could have proved the difference for us and got us promoted. The reason it went how it did is probably partly due to Rothwell's shitty attitude and application after he didn't get his move. Something that tbf the manager would have been best placed to predict. So he should probably have been backed there. (Obviously the ideal scenario would've been keeping him, and Venkys not being pricks and actually backing the manager with funds...hell who knows if they'd have even done that if they had approved the sale.)

Thank God, thought there was some bullshit attempt to test out new rules there.

It is worth repeating, as people keep forgetting, but Dolan will only move for free if he goes abroad. Otherwise we will be due compensation due to his age (unless we have offered him no, or a worse, contract, which I can't imagine we would even as incompetent as we are). I don't imagine he will move abroad either, though I guess you never know. I can't think what league he would attract interest from where they'd also pay a better wage. 2.Bundesliga maybe, or a very shit La Liga side (newly promoted maybe).

True, although I'd expect it to be a smidge better than u18 due to the extra year of development. Ahh yes I forgot about the training comp rule. I was wondering why it was anything if he was out of contract. I assume he was actually out of contract as he signed his first pro deal with us, so his previous contract surely can't have taken him into a pro year.

Huh, what's this? Surely that just means if the ball goes out near the corner flag for a throw they're gonna take the throw from next to halfway? Which sounds ridiculous to me.

Dunno, I could be misremembering. I can't find anything about whether he was a freebie or cost a fee, having searched several articles. Transfermarkt had his fee down as '?' which usually means an undisclosed fee, but may mean they don't know either way. In theory you're right, if he was out of contract it shouldn't have cost us anything, and I do see he turned down a contract. Regardless though, he seems to have been shit here so far. Though I did see that he scored 30 goals in 39 appearances overall for Nantes U19s, including 3 goals and an assist in the UEFA Youth League last season, so maybe he just needs time to settle.

You're almost certainly not, then. Especially over 90 minutes. You might feel it, but I bet anything that if you had numbers from your fastest 100 metres when you were 21 and your fastest 100 metres now, and the same for running a mile, your figures now would be lower, particularly if you haven't been looking after yourself. I know at 40 I feel like I'm more or less the same speed as my youth for a short burst (but I flag quickly), and at 31 still felt pretty sharp and able to get about when I could stay injury-free long enough to get fit, but I bet there were still marginal differences. Which when playing top end football makes more than a marginal difference. Absolutely though, pro players do look after themselves better than they used to. Some retain their speed to surprising ages. C. Ronaldo is 40 in February, but he's still quicker than most of our players. Of course, he is also a freak, genetically and in terms of how he looks after himself. And he's also slower than he used to be. Schlupp may be in great nick and may have retained his pace. Or he may not. I've no idea as I haven't been watching. It increasingly becomes a risk in your 30s though. And even if you've kept it, it can start to go abruptly, especially if you get an injury.

Just thinking about our recruitment for the U21s this summer. Mafoumbi seems to be a failed signing thus far. We spent a fee, not sure what it was but I think I remember hearing something like 200k? For that I'd think he was expected to be a U21 regular, contributing a good amount of goals, and occasionally sit the bench for the first team, with the possibility of breaking through. He was maybe even seen as a bit of a Telalovic replacement, a young striker who may come off the senior bench occasionally. He has scored 0 goals and has 0 assists for the U21s in 6 appearances totalling 339 minutes (equivalent to 3.7 full games). He didn't make the U21 bench for the last 3 matches, although I'm not sure if this was down to injury. We have lost every single game he has played in. Admittedly we have lost most games, but in the league when he hasn't played we have played 4, won 2, drawn 1 and lost 1. I'm not saying that's all down to him, but there's a clear pattern there. Didn't we use an ESC slot for him too? If so I'd be looking to jettison him and free it up. If not I guess we can afford a bit more time to see if he settles. Aodhan Doherty seems to have fared better. Apparently we paid about 100k for him. A winger rather than a striker like Mafoumbi, but he has still scored 3 goals in 10 games, and added 2 assists. 565 minutes played, equivalent to 6.2 full matches, so 5 goal contributions is a pretty good return. Seems to be finding form too - the 3 goals came in the last 2 matches, and take them out we'd be 3 points lighter...we only have 7 points in total. Doherty is only 18, Mafoumbi is 19. Thoughts from those who have actually watched games?

Whilst CBs seem to be our predominant output, let's not forget Adam Wharton, Rory Finneran, Harry Leonard, Nyambe, Buckley (eww). Potentially Duru, Tyjon and Higgins to come through. A few others who have briefly been squad players, like Butterworth, Vale, Mahoney. Going back further of course, Duff, Gallagher, Derbyshire, Dunn.

I could also have replied to this, in Monty Python style, 'Yes, but apart from saving the club, winning their only ever major honour and getting them into two other major finals, and risking his personal fortune, apart from that...what has Steve Gibson ever done for Boro?'