Frequently not, in fact.

Unless he's doing that during his family holiday and pissing off his missus, then no, he's not doing that.

Nothing to do with him being obligated to do it, it's simply that getting yourself in shape when teams across the league are coming back for pre-season training seems an obvious thing to do for any true professional whether contracted or not, let alone one whose career, stock and fitness is in a precarious position. Yes yes, I know he has other offers, but if he has a bad season next year for us or whoever, he could easily find himself short on them in future as there are already a lot of question marks over him. I just think it's poor professionalism and I'm not impressed. It seems like something someone who has fallen out of love with the game and isn't motivated would do. If he's not, fine, just don't want him around anymore when I was already unsure whether he adds enough value.

Holy shit, that's unreal! A one-off, sure, but five in a row? I actually struggle to believe that's humanly possible and not doctored footage. It was in his Villa days, but he shouldn't have lost much if any of that accuracy. It's different when the ball is moving, or you have to put more pace, bend on it etc, but at the very least I'd expect some good corners. Maybe not straight in like Mulgrew, though with that accuracy he should be capable of it.

I suppose you've blanked Murphy, Etuhu and Goulon from your mind? Don't blame you. Many would say Andrews but I think he was a similar level to Evans and Smallwood personally, just playing a league higher. He was poor but not half as poor as a lot of fans made out.

I don't remember who, Vinjay, I'm not Rain Man. It definitely happened, I had some very annoying arguments with a few. As I said, small handful. It was astonishing that there were any though.

Ah thanks. I just didn't want to read that far back really, imagining it to be the usual. I retract my remark.

That's hilarious. I wouldn't want 5 million Jason Lowes for that price, let alone just the one. I'd wish it had been true and happened...although I'm sure we'd face criminal action for that level of daylight robbery. I'm curious that nobody has commented on the Jack Payne link I posted. Probably need to save their energy for another Brereton debate.

I don't know if you were being sarcastic, but I don't remember Jason Lowe being linked with any moves at all, let alone for 5 million? There was a distinct lack of interest in him despite how a small handful of fans used to praise him. Glad nobody lauds him anymore. That small handful were probably the type that have to defend absolutely everything the club is doing.

One of four teams mentioned as interested in Paddy McNair

This thread is getting to be a bit of a leviathan, so apologies if already posted: Linked with Jack Payne on a free To be honest...I'd probably take that if wages were low, as a cheap Dack backup. Not a priority position obviously, but if it didn't have much effect on our budget and wasn't counted as one of the 'up to 5' TM has said we want to bring in, I don't see much reason not to. He'd barely play, mind, as I don't think TM would wedge him onto the wing much, and Dack is both our key man and rarely injured. But I don't see anybody else playing that linking role very naturally. We just have players we could force in there. Still got years left in him at 24, and did the business in a PL promotion winning Hudds team a few years back. If it's cheap it's low risk. Good technical ability. Maybe he would fit a potential revised playing system better too. Thought he didn't get as much game time as he merited last time here.

Is that a fact though? Bauer's comments on his Preston move suggested he needs to fight for his place there too.

Nah he's a good Championship defender last I saw him. I wouldn't object per se, but I don't know how effective he and Lenihan would be as a pair. I just have reservations about that, and don't think Mulgrew should line up with anyone. If we signed another more disciplined, rounded centre half too, I'd be very happy. With that defender lining up with the winner of a Hanley-Lenihan fight for the shirt we'd be set at CB. I'm not sure we will put that much finance into that area. We will, obviously, see how everything works out. Full disclosure, I have a slight dislike of Hanley as a character, as I thought he was one of the biggest on-pitch reasons for our relegation, we carried his poor performances for years, then he fucked off as soon as he finally had a good season. Water under the bridge if he comes back though, I wouldn't let that get in the way if he delivers the goods. Which he should be able to if he's matured over the years. Still a good age, should still have it physically as much as ever. He had some injuries though if I remember?

I'm not completely convinced. Darragh is fairly no-nonsense. Our defence needs a rough CB sure, but for me that player also needs to be an intelligent, disciplined organiser. A fuckton of our goals have come from poor positional play. Last I saw Hanley for us, I considered him reckless, a criticism that has been levelled at Lenihan. He was learning better when to commit and when not, compared to previous seasons, so maybe he has matured on that front. But I wouldn't want to see us line up with two rash CBs. You can only really afford one.

Agreed. The first centre back who walks through that door (arguably both if we sign two) HAS to be seen as ahead of Mulgrew in the pecking order, despite his position as captain, and Williams. If they're not, there is zero point in signing them.

Mowbray on losing the Bauer chase https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17729706.rovers-boss-on-missing-out-on-patrick-bauer-to-preston/

Another poster has said the Twitter account explains it is a rumour generator bot. Don't worry about it.

Christ, hope that doesn't become the rationale... 'Can't do anything until TM is back from Pune.' Great, he's back, so we- 'Can't do anything til TM is back from his holidays.' Alright fair enough, but now he's back we- 'Can't do anything until we are back from Austria.' What next? No wait I know this one, because we used it last summer... 'Can't do anything until the Prem teams have decided which youth players to keep around this season.'

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/latest-owls-news/sheffield-wednesday-stewart-downing-turned-down-owls-offer-before-joining-blackburn-rovers-307183%3famp Supposedly turned down Sheff Weds and 'lucrative' offers from the MLS. He'll be on a fair packet, I surmise.

That's where I was on it, until seeing he decided to have his holiday at the start of pre-season. There's been plenty of other time to get that in. Highly unprofessional and suggests he isn't fully committed to getting in shape, for us or for anyone else. Especially worrying with such an injury prone player. I don't care if the club already knew, and frankly they shouldn't have allowed it whilst he is under contract. We're being a soft touch again.

Not showing up for pre-season and having his holiday then instead? Awful attitude towards fitness and preparation, whether he is going to be here or elsewhere. That settles it for me, I now hope he doesn't sign.

What is what's been said?

Ligue 2, but yeh, certainly obscure. A market we need to look to again.

I think people are mostly talking about youth players under our current gaffer. Of the 4 you mention, only Travis was given his debut by TM, the others were already features of the squad if I remember rightly. Travis was about to be loaned out, and given how he has performed, clearly got his chance later than he should have. TM has given a fair few young players their debuts, that much is true. But then (so far) they're barely seen again. Hopefully that changes this season, but if we bring in the four more players we want, it's hard to see who will be given a real chance (ie, a run) in favour of which old guard member. Tony is very conservative about shaking up the established lot. Even when he signs players himself, ones older than our youth players, he has a tendency to take a long time to brave integrating them fully on matchdays. I think the best youth players should be sent out on loan until January if squad needs will allow. All of them, except the established ones (I'll count Nuttall, Brereton and Chapman in that, although I wouldn't be too fussed if one or both of the first two went on loan to League One if we end up with enough proper cover). As for who we bounce and the careers they go on to have...if you keep hold of a player until he's about 21, barely play him, then release him, you'll never truly know what that player might have been capable of. Just because they don't go onto anything special doesn't mean they weren't capable if handled right. Those years before players reach 21 are critical to their development, and sometimes the harm done can't be reversed.

I'm not convinced by the Downing signing, and I certainly haven't been by the Brereton signing either. But I must say, this logic that a few people have put out, of it mattering what our 'first' signing is...I find it strange. Sure, if you got to pick which order things will land, you wouldn't ideally make the 35-year old winger your opening gambit, due to temporarily affecting fan morale. I do get that. But why should we gear our transfer policy around selling season tickets? If you don't want to make Downing your first signing, but you do intend to sign Downing, what do you do? Tell Stewart "Sorry mate, we're going to sign you but we can't have you be the first one, it'll be a bit embarrassing and stop us selling season tickets"? He sure as hell won't sign then (possibly a good thing in this case, but management obviously don't think so). Or do you suddenly throw more money at one of your other targets to get him over the line first? That could easily cost more than the small increase in season tickets will recoup. You have to sign players in the order you finalise the deals. It's the only practical thing to do. On top of which...let's just assume (I'll exaggerate to make the point clearer) that our business this summer was to be Downing, Assombalonga, Stones and Cristiano Ronaldo. If you sign them in that order, or you start with the big names, is it going to really make any difference to how many we sell? I doubt it would do much more than dictate the times at which the tickets were sold. Nobody is going to reach the end of the window, contemplating whether to buy a season ticket, then when the big names rocked up in the last week go "Actually nah I'm good, they signed Downing at the start of the window and now my soul is dead to football". The season ticket sales which are dependent on names signing will make the same decision regardless of when the names are signed (not accounting for chaos theory of course). Some clarification since people on here like to take things out of context to fabricate an argument: I know our big names won't be as grandiose as that, and possibly won't come at all. I know we need defenders and I only listed one. It was just for illustrative purposes. I also know how it looks when we badly need defenders and the first name in is another aged winger. I'm not inspired either. But the point is, as long as the right players get in during the window, that's all that really matters. The only reason to hold off on one deal for longer is if the resources for it might affect another target, and frankly we'll never know the ins and outs of that dance (unless a Brereton-level fee is used up early, which would obviously impact other signings). And another clarification - yes I know getting players in earlier means they get more time to bed in, but I doubt that tends to be worth the extra money. I'm also not expressly talking about you, Fraser, just this particular notion I've seen a few times. Agree with you on your other points, including that maybe it will transpire our budget is limited.