That's a pointless post (I'm not explaining it, it should be obvious). So is this one.

Well, Lee did mention that quite a number of contracts are up at the end of this season. Might be a good time for Rovers to be the first club to downsize itself, organising the finances to the equivalent of a division one club, but playing in the Premier League. Sure there is a risk of relegation... but no matter what is spent, this will remain for all but the top teams, so why risk the disaster that is a highly waged club having to service it's existing player contracts in constant danger of relegation. I don't mean to offend anyone, but my perception is, from the general tone of the fans, they actually want and deserve division one football. After all, if it's about relating to the players, home grown players are more likely to figure the further down the divisions you go. And there are other factors too of course. But that's honestly what I think. Rovers can't deliberately gear themselves for relegation, that isn't sensible at all of course. But they can gear themselves as a somewhere between premier and div. one club, even if it means we are asking the youngest to make the step up too early.

You're right. It's time to kill the thread... ah, mods... mods... can you make it like this all never happened

Dare I nominate this thread for Messageboard Gold? (yeah, get rid of it from the messageboard proper now. I'm not bitter )

You'd hate to live in Australia then, with our reactions to Cricket/sporting success.

Very good... wonder how long it keeps like that before a fuss is kicked up about it.

Congratulations to all genuine (and I don't mean that in a snidey way) England cricket supporters, especially the messageboard members who have followed the series closely. ... I was going to say that I was gutted earlier, and then not gutted now... but as I type this, I do feel extremely disappointed again. Anyway... England were the better team this series, and looking at the talent through the squad, they are definitely, without doubt, the *equal* of Australia. I'm not being mean-spirited about witholding the term better, but Australia had to win over a number of years before they could claim the worlds best title, without equivocation. England can do it by winning the series that are filler to the certifying series, in two and a bit years time in Australia. The telling thing is, they, along with India half a decade ago, got over the aura surrounding the Australian team. It was pretty simple really, and this test is a perfect case in point. The performance of England's batsmen in this last innings has not been fantastic, and KP scored most of Englands runs. However, they've posted 300+ runs. Now, you could say that it was on the back of a solitary individual batting performance... but that is how Australia has been so successful. At least one batsmen an innings puts his hand up, and bats a century. Then, a formidable bowling attack, of which England have nearly got (Harmisson and Giles have to improve, but that leaves three good bowlers) can defend reasonable targets. As for Australia... in such moments, I want to lash out... blame them for throwing it all away. But fair dues, they tried very hard, fought all the way, preventing floggings and almost pulling of the remarkable. England out played them, and they were always trying to keep up with the better team. Beware those on this thread that intimated that Australia are a spent force... you may be developing an ignorance that you accused the Australians of. I expect them to get it together for the forthcoming series in preparation for the rematch downunder. Again, I am quite disappointed with the series loss... however, and eventually, all teams and supporters end up making the forced, reluctant sacrifices that allow for renewal of interest in sport. Which means my summary, still relunctantly is... England winning the Ashes is and will be great for cricket, and that is more important the Australian's rights to brag.

I'm sh!t scared... very nervous.

I understand that it's physically taxing, but like Manchester, I find myself wishing he could bowl like that every over.

And it's these sorts of errors in judgement all along the serious that have compounded the problems for Australia (aside from England's strong performances). You just can't afford to make them in such a competitive series. Rodney Marsh on TMS was critical of Australia's failure to bowl out their overs in the first innings, and I place that alongside the decision to take the light yesterday, and the commonly acknowledged, monumental blunder to send England in to bat at Edgbaston, as decisions going against all common sense. btw, Marsh is very likeable, and I can't help but like him too... however, I don't place too much stock in what he says. He says a lot but sometimes too much, bordering on whinging and sometimes he just obviously takes the opposite view deliberately. I agree with him on the above point though. I console myself by turning to the positives... they have been outplayed for most of the series, but have yet to be on the receiving end of an almost deserved mauling. As for taking the light, the upsetting thing is that it was an error in judgement... but in reality, the cost may have been the runs achieved in a handful of overs... and all this can be made irrelevant if Langer and Hayden come out and keep their partnership intact for a good portion of the first session.

Surely that was not said, right ?

Why not? I've accepted it and I'm Australian. I think he may get lucky enough and play on in the fifth test, but Hayden deserved the drop before this fourth test IMO. Gilchrist is Gilchrist... besides being the vice-captain and wicket keeper, it would be difficult to drop him, based on his potential to damage the opposition, and the lack of a like for like replacement. I don't want him dropped. But for mine, Hayden's show too many chinks on this tour (in the one-day series included).

Congratulations guys. You cannot lose the series from this point, so are now, IMO, equal number one in the world. Thoroughly deserved. I am still proud of the Australian team... England may be taking over the mantle as worlds best, but Australia are showing why they have been number one for so long. You have to fight the whole way, and try to overcome whatever adversity you encounter. England have the team to hold the number one spot, they will have to work hard to keep it. Winning at the Oval, and capturing the Ashes may confirm whether they have that ethic. Congrats once again.

I agree, and there is a point to be made that no-one else seems to have made (to my knowledge). I don't have a problem with substitutions, however, England being the home side, they can choose their strongest fielder in the land as a mere substitute. He needed have a hope of being in the team proper. Do the visiting team ever have that luxury. Of course not. Sure there is a lot of money in the game, but it is infeasible that Australia could: 1. pick the finest fielder in the domestic competition, not figuring in the first eleven. 2. ask him to miss out on the matches in his domestic competition. 3. perhaps pay for the match fees for the matches he misses etc... Of course you could say that the visiting side is never on a level playing field from a logistical point of view anyway... however, the actual matches themselves should have the maximum equality for the teams. Simon Jones is likely out of the team for the Oval test. Would Pratt replace him? I don't think so, right? Say Clarke didn't recover in time for this Trent Bridge match, would Hogg have been a candidate for replacing him. Of course. I think the rules should be made like the World Cup, whereby you choose an squad before the series, and you can only select players from the squad you chose.

Oh... and if what I've said above is right, he should apologise for his behaviour. If he feels strongly about the substitutions, he should take it up with the officials after the match.

If the allegation that Ponting's rant at the England dressing room was because of a greivance over England's use of substitutions, I will be extremely disappointed. He was starting to win me around recently too. I understand his frustration at the events surrounding his run-out... certainly to pile on to all that's been going wrong, he might be feeling that Pratt, and his fielding, was an unknown quantity . Coupled with any pre-existing grevience over England's use of substitutions, he may have felt that he shouldn't have been up against Pratt as an unknown quantity. But to be honest, that that is all glossing over the facts: 1. that this was another costly error in an error strewn series for Australia. And in this instance, he had a good portion of fault, even though Martyn may have put him mostly "in it". 2. the subsitutions are with-in the rules of the game, and Australia have done as much as any team (non-Aussies may feel more) to cast aside any "gentleman rules" that Ponting might have felt were applicable to the England substitutions. 3. following on from 2., the subsitute is entitled to try and get the batsmen out as much as any other fielder... except perhaps for bowling. Actually, there is a point I am unsure of. Is it prohibitted by rule, or by gentlemanly conduct, to deny a substitue fielder a bowl? Otherwise, someone asked how Hayden is responsible for the top-order failure. Of course it is within the power of any of the other batsmen to overcome the poor start. But I believe it is a commonly held view that the openers set the tone in most innings. Hayden has done nothing to set a positive tone. It's not going to matter, as I think there is a very good chance he will lose his spot. I agree with pg that he is talented, and his past exploits suggest a stronger character than I accused him off... but the only way to explain him now is that he may have lost his nerve. He's had too long to try and recover it, and this test was one too many of patience by the selectors.

As soon as Hayden went, I knew this was going to happen. Hayden's poor form is a *very* large part of why the top order is failing. He deserves to be dropped.

Who was it that said Blowers is embarrassing? I see/hear your point. He goes on and on about all these distractions to the cricket. But he does have his moments, even though they are mostly unintentional. What did he say today that had me laughing... something like: We'll turn Rodney Marsh on, once he gets into position. Something like that

Gillispie dropped not that I thought he shouldn't be, but what's to become of him now? I think he still has a good chance of resurecting his career, as McGrath will retire soon enough, and on form, he's a natural fit for the premier fast bowler spot. However, it may be that his injury-proneness has degraded the rate of his progression to such a point that he may not comeback. One more point, before the next test starts. An English friend of mine thought Vaughan should have declared earlier at stumps on the fourth day (so, not retrospect). I disagreed. After the test was drawn, we both held our opinion. I thought Vaughan was spot on with the declaration, because ultimately, the winning margin was 50 odd... any earlier declaration would have had the knock on of allowing more time for Australia to reach the target, so it magnifies the deficiency in the target score of an earlier declaration. Of course it is all speculation, but I think Australia may have been able to play in a different way and attain the target if Vaughan has impatiently declared, say just 2 overs earlier than he did. The difference those two overs made was a target of 402 (which would have sounded enough at the time) instead of 423, or put another way, Australia being within 35 runs with two extra overs... hmm, after writing all that, I've changed my mind that might have enticed Ponting to play some riskier shots earlier perhaps.... In anycase, declaring as Vaughan did was not a mistake. Apart from his earlier innings with the bat this series, Vaughan has done a fine job as captain. I think both captain's stood up in the third test, and that was important, especially for Ponting, who finally seemed to have figured out that he might be the first Aussie captain in a while to lose an Ashes series... and set out at averting it.

As those familiar with my postings here would know, I am an admirer of Souness. However, if he ends up paying a Newcastle club record fee for Owen, he's completely lost it... where he started going wrong was when he compromised his originally successful (with Rovers) frugileness, and started paying over the odds in his transfer dealings. He's been continuing that at Newcastle, but the Owen transfer would be on a new level of insanity. Wasn't he sold just a season ago by Liverpool to Real Madrid for £8m plus Antonio Nunez... now, Shearer cost the 'pies £15m. So if the transfer record is broken, they are likely to be almost doubling the fee, in a depressed transfer market, paid by Madrid a season ago. I never even attempted to rationalise Chelsea's transfer madness, but this takes the cake. Just wtf is going on???

Same here... but I wouldn't read too much into it, even if it was directed against our supporters.

Australia very lucky to get away with that. England deserved to win, but don't begrudge me the sense of relief. It's scary to think that Australia scored a lot of runs, enough to win many other tests, but England scored 51 more with 3 wickets in hand over Australia (They had 4 when they declared, Australia had 1 at the end)... and of course, they were going for it in the second innings, and gave away some wickets. The last two tests have been... just so nerve wracking... the 4th test is going to be manic. I'm as glad as the players for the 9 day break now. The media won't let us forget though, as I am sure they are going to be full of the possible selection changes. Sadly, but rightly, Gillispie is likely to be dropped. That'll be the first big point of discussion I'd imagine. Maybe we'll discuss it here Goodnight

IMO, it's too contrived. Ponting's coin toss decision was obviously a huge talking point considering how the second Test went. So, they've taken that angle, coupled it with the public image of a "full of himself" Warne, and spun it as a story. What really gives it away for me is the alleged put down of Gillespie in the story. I know it is not out of the realms of possibility for such sniping to happen. But, to me it seems totally out of character of the squad, and worthy of a story in itself. Having said that, Ponting has left himself exposed in this way because he's been a poor captain in this series. He hasn't lead by example. He's made some very poor decisions. And he's thrown away that image of the hard nosed Aussie captain. I should though admit, I have a bias that influences my views. I was a huge admirer of Steve Waugh. The Waugh twins come from the western Sydney district that I come from (Bankstown), and Steve's my all-time favourite cricketer... and close to my all-time favourite sportsman.

That is definitely sensationalist bullsh!t.