theno, I think the big problem with Lancashire United is the tribal nature of football. as you say this "club" would probably need 40,000 on the gate to work. Where on earth are we going to find 40,000 Lancastrians to support this club? We have to discount all those who wouldn't step inside the ground because they are PNE, Rovers, Blackpool, Burnely etc. Then we have the thousands who support City, Bolton, Wigan, Liverpool, Everton, Utd etc. I do follow your arguement and IF this was simply a question of setting up a baseball franchise it might work. The major flaw in your idea is football is partly about tribal loyalty, once a Rover always a Rover and cannnot be broken with all the money or stars on the planet. Given the choice between Lancashire United and a real football club I know which I'd chose. I've one idea that hasn't been raised before, to my knowledge. Knock down Ewood Park and build a new stadium somewhere easily accessible? With hindsight this is what Jack should have done, but then hindsight is a wonderfull thing.

I know, that is the sadness of it. The media happily rubbish these people all over primetime TV and when proved to be wrong will give them an apology on the back page of the Radio Times.

Matty just made you smile and feel good. He represented good things in our game and we loved him for it. I hope he can get a game somewhere.

No that is not what I'm saying, and I've added an edit above to make that clear. I believe the PL as whole has to cut its wage bill. 80% of TV revenues are paid to players, this is ridiculous. We have over-exposure because the clubs have to bow to every demand from TV in order to retain the money. Football is no longer special, it's just media pap. Why do you think the foreign players are here? To display their talents in "the best league in the world" or to earn millions? Be honest. The most important people in football are you and I. We have been forgotten, nobody gives a damn about us, we are the vocal wallpaper. Suddenly thousands and thousands of us have had enough and are beginning or have turned our backs on the game we grew up with. There are many different reasons for this but football continues to ignore us all. Face facts, football in its current state will be the downfall of Blackburn Rovers, OUR football club. It will happen before I die.

....and while I'm having a rant. Tuesday's Panorama was a startling example of how our game is being exploited by the media and destroyed by television. Even the BBC now finds it necessary to make garbage, News of the World style, programmes about football and sell them to us as "investigative journalism." I don't know if there is a bung culture in football and I do care about this. However I hope Sam Allardyce is innocent, I hope he can prove it and I hope he sues the BBC for millions. On Wednesday morning several people asked me for my opinion on the programme, when I replied I thought it was rubbish they all looked surprised. The BBC have told millions who are uninterested in football, and interested in nothing but scandal, that football is rotten, and the punters believe it. If Allardyce et al are proved innocent I hope every person connected with making that garbage is forced to resign and every named individual who is proved innocent gets 60 minutes of primetime to tell the world. If you want an example of how the media have destroyed the game from it which has earnt millions the BBC and Panorama provided it on Tuesday night. I am just sick to death of the whole thing.

Hannah made the point about City fans being moved from the cheaper areas to the DE on Sunday. I can't find the post right now. A source I trust, not inside the club, has told me hundreds of Everton fans arrived with junior concession tickets for that game. Apparently the first few were refused entry but when the size of the problem became apparent the police and club decided the safer solution was to allow them entry. I don't know if its true, and I've only heard it from one person, but this is not from someone who would make up such a remark

I don't have an answer on the ticketing policy but I understand the current policy and posted about this months back The loyal fans are protected and any fan who wants that protection can have it by buying an ST. I forget how cheap the cheapest is but it's very good value. Yes some folk have to miss games etc because of the ludicrous kick off times implemented for the benefit of the couch potatoes but that is not Rovers fault. TBH I can't see the stadium being sold out week after week if it was £5, £10 or even free......many of those we have lost are now comfy in the pubs and clubs of Blackburn. Until the stauration TV coverage is stopped it will be very difficult to attract them back. Blackburn Rovers haven't created this situation but the greed of the players, PL and FA has. Televised fotball has destroyed the game while bringing only a few real benefits. Yes we have the facilities but that's about it and even those are questionable in the influemce they have on crowds and attracting the top players. The answer lies in a radical re-think on wages, squads, players etc. Football has reached the point where it is now impinging on other areas of my life and virtually every game I have to give up something in order to attend ~ I don't know how much longer I'm prepared to make those sacrifices Cycling is my other big leisure activity. It gives me enormous pleasure, more than watching Rovers at present. My road club goes out on a Sunday morning for 6-7 hours, meaning I have to chose between this and Rovers for nearly every other game as I simply can't get home in time to do both. I've invested more money in my cycle and other bits of kit than my ST. To watch Rovers I have to leave the bike in the garage most weekends. I'm sure others have activities they are similarily passionate about which force them to make a decision. We need to cut player salaries by 50% (edit by this I mean ALL clubs) and if this means losing the stars, and lets face it the impact at Rovers would be minimal compared to the big clubs, it's OK with me. If we don't have the Ballacks, Schevchenkos, Gerrards, Lampards etc of the game playing in this country so be it, I couldn't give a fig. If the big four disappear to some European league, let them go. I don't care I simply want to see committed players giving their all at 3.00pm on a Saturday. TV money has destroyed the game and until football returns to being an exciting, passionate game the fans will not retrun. The supposed "best league in the world" is in fact very boring. The result of most games is irrelevant - Rovers aren't going to win the league and unless we are in a relegation battle very few matches will really matter this season. The cup games have a relevance but if we get knocked out of those what is there to look forward to? This must be addressed and the saturation coverage of TV removed from our screens. Then I'll feel more like singing the blues and not sitting back think "entertain me, that's what you're paid to do" ~ something I never used to feel no matter how bad the team played. Football is supposed to be a business. This makes me laugh every time I hear it. The people running football haven't a frigging clue. Any business that loses the focus on its customers deserves to fail and football is far from focused on the fan/customer base. If football is in trouble it should look to cutting costs, examining the problems and focusing on the customer. Some chance of that happening. The PL need to stop treating me, its customer, like an idiot who has nothing else in his life. Strangely I could survive without ever watching another game. Someone, somewhere needs to recognise this very simple fact. I'm no fool and I'm tired of being taken for granted by the game.

Can you imagine it!! It would be a good song and quite original. Surely the brilliant bit about that goal was Nonda's quick thinking in taking the throw-in. I thought all Gamst had to do was get to the box and square it for Benni?

IF the game is corrupt, and Panorama was very, very poor, we should all care simply because if anyone who can influence events on the pitch is corrupt in one manner - taking bungs for example - what is there to say he wouldn't be prepared to influence the outcome of a game?

I dozed off during the programme so I'm not 100% sure about which managers were named by Panorama, There are a few posts in this thread that mention names that I don't think were included in the Panorama programme, for the time being I've hidden those posts so that only admin/mods can see them. Once we've had a chat the posts will either re-appear or stay hidden. Apologies to the members concerned, please be patient on this one.

Yes, same applies to my eldest boy. It would be interesting to know if the attendance figures include all ST holders or just those that came through the gates fopr any given match?

I share the concern on this but I'm not sure kids for free is the solution. My kids have been attending Rovers virtually for free for 14 years, along with many others I know of. How? Well the ST pricing policy was free STs to the age of eight and then somthing like £40-70 until age 16. It's only as my two elder children passed 16 that I have paid any sort of serious money for them to watch at Ewood Park. I appreciate people are arguing for free kids on a walk-up basis but I suspect the club know, as I do, that the family friendly pricing policy of the past 10-12 years is now back-firing on the club. With TWO exceptions every child I know who went regularly to Ewood for perhaps 8-10 years has stopped. It's very simple, they no longer live in the area ~ they are travelling, at uni, working etc. I can recall posting on this matter around 3-4 years ago and I regret to say I'm now proved right. One lad I took to every home game for maybe 9 years didn't go while he was home from uni this season. When my eldest started going to Ewood his was the only blue and white shirt in the village. This rapidly changed in the early nineties, sadly we are back to only one family that regularly sets off to Ewood on a Saturday, in days gone by you could almost set your watch by the cars leaving. Rovers have to be applauded for the family pricing of STs over the last 10-12 years regretably the investment hasn't worked. The club invetsed in those children for nearly a decade and they no longer attend for a variety of reasons, with the benefit of hindsight it was money down the drain. The theory is right, make them Rovers when they are young, but in today's mobile society the chances of these kids remaining ST holders in the long-term is slight.

Ouijer's problems are not being caused by him being a poor player but all of the above from pleasure was true yesterday. Communication ~ There isn't a natural leader in our defence at the moment, Todd or Nelsen do that. So the problem is there is no communication across the whole defence. Neill is captain and the senior pro, he should be getting to grips with this. Ouijer clearly does not understand at present and needs to be told. Poor position ~ he was badly out of position on several occassions yesterday, you could drive a bus through the holes he left. Perhaps this is again communication. Slack marking/anticipation ~ perhaps his style is to stand off but this only works if he has good anticipation and is quick to close down his man which doesn't seem to be the situation right now I think Ouijer can be a good player for us but he's having a torrid time settling in. I doubt Sparky would play him every game if Todd and/or Nelsen where available.

His middle name is Christophe. That made me smile

After sleeping on the result and performance I still feel the same - good win, much needed three points but a worringly awful performance. The first half was dire, from both sides, and if the PL is the best league in the world this game should be reported to trading standards. Rovers couldn't do anything right and City are just plain bad, I don't believe we are a poor team but so far we have haven't shown we are a good one. Truth be told a better team than City could have been 5-0 up before we got a sniff at goal. I think I counted nine City chances in the first half, it was only thanks to Thatcher and Pedersen that we went in level at half-time. Defensively we were very poor and the rest of the side was struggling to put two passes together. I don't think anyone was especially bad, just the team wasn't working as a unit. Note we didn't create anything! That Sparky made two changes at half-time, said it all. The guy next to me said to his five year-old visiting Rovers for the first time "Our manager is very, very angry with some of the players" Well I hope he was. Those changes made a big difference, I've always been more confident than most in Mokoena and thought he played well today. Nonda looks like a very good signing, give him the ball and he goes for goal, he doesn't try to bring in the rest of the team, he wants to score. His quick thinking at the thrown-in made the third goal simplicity itself for MGP and Benni. If this is true, and we appear to have major defensive problems, it's difficult to know how to respond. I would support Hughes, I can't moan about footballers who don't give a monkeys and then do anything other than support the manager when he disciplines them. A pity because I like Gray and we need Todd, who is behaving very childishly. For me the defensive problems revolve around communication, neither Ouijer nor Zurab seem to be talkative players. Ouijer was all over the place yesterday, didn't seem to know where he should be in relation to the rest of the team. I imagine either Nelsen or Todd alongside him would have sorted this. This raises a question about Neill's captaincy, on pitch he should sorting it out, if he can't see the problem of two centre backs not communicating he should not be captain. I happily ranted at Ouijer yesterday when he scored, in fact I'd have driven him home to Holland but we must give him a chance if Todd and Gray are finished. What about McEveley, Neill, Zurab/Ouijer, Emerton? After Hughes made the half-time changes our midfield looked strange. Who would create the chances? The Axe and Savage wouldn't, generally MGP doesn't create much, leaving us with Bentley. Better sies would have quickly spotted this and closed us down. I'm wondering if McCarthy could play deeper, even in midfield? After a 4-2 home win I should feel much encouraged. I'm relieved we have three points and sit 12th this morning but still worried. There were glimpses of Blackburn Rovers yesterday but only glimpses. Don't underestimate how awful City were. This was a very poor game of football between one very bad team and another that is struggling to get going this season. Sparky knows this wasn't the great result it appears to be, I hope he can tighten things up befre we go to Boro.

Nobody would go as they wouldn't pay the toll. That road is so blissfully empty I look forward to going south these days

I wouldn't get too hung up about it Hannah. I don't know of any site that currently legally allows people to watch live footie on their PC. Now I may be wrong on this but I can only think of one legal method of doing this - if you can receive digital TV on your PC and have paid your Sky subscription then I imagine it's perfectly OK to watch Sky via your PC. Other than that I think any site offering live footie is at least questionable and probably illegal. My only concern is what gets posted on here. Beyond that? I've been copying music for 40 years or more so I'm hardly in a position to get high and mighty about the subject. It's all the same thing, copyright protection.

10 - 3

I deleted eight links in an hour last night and one complete thread. I think den and Cornwall both deleted at least one link each. I had to spend my time deleting stuff when I wanted to listen to Radio Lancs in the kitchen!!!!! In the past we've had warnings from the LET (several), the PL Fixtures people - no doubt what they where saying - and a couple of others Glenn dealt with. I pulled most of this stuff, didn't intend to go over the top but I feel at 10 instances we were pushing things a bit! At one point there were so many PM requesting links it looked as though the only thing to do was to pull the whole thread as it was a mess. In the end it seemed simply to leave it.

Pictures of the Fans Friendly Match Salzburg vs. Rovers are here: http://www.redbullsalzburg-board.com/board...y&cmd=sc&cat=70 I'm pleased to report the brfcs.co.uk secured THREE away goals which may prove vital in the return leg in two weeks time. Don't they look fit?

Thanks Paul, it's not a problem. The remarks are general, not aimed at you. Several people did it and have in the past, there was just a rash of links tonight. None of us are daft and we know what is happening. While the whole issue is questionable we, Ste, Glenn and I, have to make a judgement. On balance we feel we shouldn't allow the links. Why? The main reasons are below: 1. Other fan sites have been shut down for lesser and similar things. Any ISP receiving a letter from solictors acting for, say UEFA, is going to shut down first and ask questions later. It's questionable if we'd return. There won't be polite warnings from the ISP 2. Infringement of Copyright - in the past we have received warnings over posts that infringed copyright. This was sorted out but we don't want to go there again. It's a grey area, little sites can't run the risk. 3. For some people there is the issue regarding attendance/Sky etc. The debate is for another thread, but we don't want to support activity which may harm attendance at Ewood. 4. If there is ever a problem with copyright, libel etc it is not beyond the bounds of possibility of the three admins being sued. Personally I ain't putting my house on the line for you guys The whole thing is a legal minefield, we don't know the answers and will continue to err on the side of caution

Illegal streaming is simply that, illegal. We've had a rash of links tonight all of which are illegal. Our ISP would probably shut the site down first and ask questions later if there was a complaint made against the site. Would members please stop posting these links. thanks

I understand what you say den but ask a question. Lets put aside the two cup competitions as I think the PL is the main problem. Other than the top four winning the PL is out of the question, finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th is seen as an achievement. It is an achievement but is always calculated in financial terms not sporting ones. Those clubs who finish 5-7th are rewarded with a UEFA cup place; a tournament with 134 entered teams, other than the English teams at a push 21 of those clubs are worth getting excited about. Llanelli at home anyone? If it isn't entertainment what is it? Provided a club doesn't get involved in relegation struggle most results don't really matter, it's just a case of moving up and down a couple of spots. I want to be entertained by watching my team win a game playing good football. There's nothing else left for the fans. Is the season to revolve around putting one over Arsenal, Liverpool or Utd? That's pretty much the point we've reached. I understand thenodrog's view on prices and being fortunate to watch PL football but this is close to saying we are getting the best entertainment and should pay for it. Do I really care about watching Ballack, Lampard and Schevchenko? Frankly no, I go to watch Blackburn Rovers, not "some of the best players in the world."

I'm sure you'll all have a great time, and the football is just a part of it. On the otherhand remember Redbull have won 5, drawn 3, scored 18, conceded 4 Rovers have drawn 2, lost 2, scored 1, conceded 5 and, worringly, only created two chances in the two home games I've seeen. Hence my mood of apprehension. Enjoy the trip

Tris, yes of course you're quite right. Bellamy wasn't a hero of the sort I think of but he was important. When Hughesy signed Bellamy I shrugged my shoulders and thought so what? Here we had a notorious footballer with, I thought, relatively little ability, known mainly for his antics. Now he may be a thick little whatsit but over the season at Ewood I grew to be excited by the prospect of him being in the team, when we had the ball and it might go to Bellamy I felt excitment. It wasn't just me and it was/is important. There is no excitment in our team at the moment. I've seen two games and I'm fed up already. We've 11 home PL games by Christmas meaning the second half of the season will be spread all over the place. Chances are Rovers will be stuffed on Thursday which leaves a possibility in the League Cup (don't know what its called now), providing the big four field reserves, and maybe the FA Cup. The feeling I get from the team is we are in for a season of couldn't care less. It's not so long ago I'd post on here about how we need to get behind the players etc, Alan was the same. Equally I used to be sad enough to work out where we would be if we won and other results went a certain way. Now? Well every club in our position is left with nothing but mediocrity. Fife - I watched five minutes of Liverpool and gave up. As for Chelsea, Ballack scored a penalty and Mourhino ranted at the press about Lampard. Can anyone tell me who they played and the result? I don't know.