Hands up all those who saw the game live? Which is not a swipe at those who can't get there. Lot of over-reaction to this defeat in my view. Like a lot I was surprised by the line-up but having been away all week, not even knowing who had played at Charlton or read a match report I presume Hughes was rewarding a good performance at The Valley? Everton game with one thing in mind 0-0, they camped all 11 in their half from kick-off and it was clearly going to be very tough. Everton are a crap team, have been for the last 3 or 4 seasons, the CL was pure fluke, a lucky season. They lack any adventure and Moyes is not the genius some suggest. Hughes on the other hand has turned the side around, got basically the same players fit, working well and passing beautifully. We are a far, far better side than Everton and I felt really good about Rovers today, feel awful about the result as we were mugged through two bits of rank defending from Nelsen and Brad fumbling across the goalmouth for the second; he should have launched himself at it. Rovers dominated the first half a part from a dodgy 6-7 minutes and went on to dominate most of the second until they just ran out of steam. Todd was a clear handball for me and as soon as the refereee went to the linesman it was only going to be one decision. Very harsh but the rules are the rules and he was last man - at least within reach of goal. If I have criticism it would be we started with 4-5-1 as Bentley clearly had missed the message about 4-4-1-1; I thought Tugay was ten yards too deep. Didn't agree with the subs as neither Bentley or MGP were having any impact, I'd have taken both of them off before subbing Tugs. I don't really understand why we had to start with 4-5-1 and that irritates but then we were playing far better football than Everton ever will. Everton cheated, pushed, punched, time-wasted and played badly - just as they always do. Everton/Moyes or Rovers/Hughes? I know which I'd rather support on the basis of today's encounter. Chin up Wham next

Sat in a pub in Prague. Preston Blue texted 1-0 , then 2-0 At which the good lady told me to switch off the phone. Wandering across the Charles Bridge we switched it on again to get a flood of texts from preston blue and the kids at home......... Fantastic end to my night out

I feel the minutes applause is more appropriare than a minutes silence in these instances. Simply because it allows those who wish to applaud to do and those who wish to show "disapproval" to do so by remaining silence thus avoiding the problems at COMS and Milwall. Silence should be reserved for events such as Armistice Day, perhaps the Tsunami and other tragedies.

I think people have a problem with the one minute silence becuase it is becoming increasingly common and as such is devalued. I can understand this at his clubs but not every ground in the PL. I stop my car if I'm travelling on Armistice Day, that is a moment to mark, but not every time a footballer, film star or whoever dies. If I was at a game I wouldn't be thinking of Best, which to my mind is against the whole point. That moment's silence should be to recall and reflect on the person, event etc. I don't feel a footballer, no matter how great, from another club warrants this action.

So the LET are reading BRISA web site. Gotta be good.

When I was around 13 or so United were drawn to play at Aldershot in the cup. I think Town were then in the fourth division. A friend of mine and his Dad were both United fans and his father also had connections at Aldershot. We got tickets to sit in a very old wooden stand, there were even chairs set around the edge of the pitch. I think United won by 5 or 6 to 0, Best, Charlton, Stiles, probably Law, the works. A great night for a kid who had probably only seen a couple of live games before that. Best was a fantastically gifted player. As a person I don't know. I do hope we don't have a national period of mourning though as he was only a very good footballer.

I sympathise with American's view but we have to be realistic on this. There will always be a need for a private area. I'm very happy for everyone I have met to have my home address, mobile number, private e-mail but I don't want to expose this info to the WWW. Those on the committee are constantly swapping this sort of thing, talking by text, phone etc and it's a lot easier if we have one area to do this. Another example would be if the committee wishes to approach a certain member to do a particular job because we know he/she has the required skills. We can hardly discuss that in public without putting the individualk in an impossible position.

I quite agree MB

No one is aware of anyhting I may or may not have said to Tris....unless he chose to share it. As for the FSF. Yes we are learning to walk and making mistakes as we go. For that reason alone I think we should join the FSF. There are people in this organisation who can help and guide us. BRISA will take more from the FSF than it contributes in the foreseeable future.

1. There is a forum on the BRISA web site called "Committee". The only people who have access to that forum are those on the committee. Tris, at his own choice as far as I am aware, is no longer a committee member. If Tris wants to rejoin the committee he's very welcome. The "committee forum" exists so the committee can discuss the boring day to day workings of BRISA - like meeting dates, newsletter content, membership badges, having a go at each other when we don't agree etc. Do you want all this public? After the effort I have put into talk with Tris about just this matter I am utterly astonished by his reaction. 2. The committee agreed Scott would represent BRISA at the FSF initially. Then, as we have said endlessly, there will be an AGM at the end of this season. At the AGM the entire committee wil stand down. The membership who are present at the AGM will then be free to elect a new committee. Naturally we will find a method for those who cannot be present at the meeting to cast a vote. We don't even know when the next FSF meeting is, how long it takes to join etc. The application forms require us to name a representative. This is about FILLING IN A FORM or even a storm in a tea cup. BRISA is NOT an exclusive club. I cannot repeat often enough EVERYONE is welcome to EVERY meeting. We had TEN new members present last Thursday. That's people who had never been to a BRISA meeting before. Still I don't believe some people will be satisfied until they are reading every last bit of mundane crap we post in the committee forum.

Tris you know as well as I do decisions have to be made. We have discussed this in the past and you have agreed with that point. If decisions are not made BRISA will achieve nothing If you had waited for the minutes to be published you would see just that has been done This matter has been discussed endlessly. It is NOT in the interests of BRISA to become a part of brfcs.com. You clearly have not thought the consequences through on this, Glenn, Ste and I have. I should point out it is also up to the Admin of brfcs.com what happens to this site. While it is obvious Glenn, Ste and I are involved with BRISA this does not give BRISA any remit to expect brfcs.com to become its mouthpiece. There is no reason why BRISA issues cannot be discussed here but it would be far better for BRISA if it happened on the BRISA forum. We have discussed and will plan ways to achieve that. Speaking personally I will need convincing BRISA should be in anyway represented by brfcs.com as I am 100% against that idea at present. It simply creates too many difficulties. Remember the discussions on cliques? As you were at the meeting, and I presume you have the minutes, you will know who took responsibility for that. I suggest you ask that person directly as I am not going to name names. Again if you waited till the minutes you would see the depth of discussion that took place regarding communication with those who do not have internet access AND thos who are NOT members. You've the jumped the gun and your assumption is 100% wrong. That is again 100% incorrect and you know it because I discussed this with you privatley within the last two weeks. Ok Tris lets have your take on it? Just how on earth are we to make any progress without decisions. If I personally hadn't pushed the launch date and forced decisions through we'd still be debating it now. Then BRISA really would be dead in the water If BRISA doesn't have a mandate to represent views just what are we supposed to do? What are we supposed to discuss with JW or TF? I'd like a constructive response please because it's clear to me you have decided to mouth off on this because of your personal position regarding Scotty.

20 or so.

I've still 35-40 if anyone else needs one

I don't know if JW needs a PR man but the club need to improve the method of communicating information to the support. This is one of our main concerns. As regards ownership of the club rest assurred BRISA wants to ask these questions and is actively looking for the right channels. Crucially we also have to think very seriously about the questions we ask. This isn't a question of a few notes on a fag packet on Saturday night.

We might like to consider the club could provide confidential background information to support the reasons behnd a decision. It could also be that personal views differ from the official line. Just to surmise on two possibilities. I would have to disagree with that remark. This meeting was, as the minutes state, the start of the process, to set waht one person described as "the rules of engagement". BRISA did not expect any answers at this meeting other than an undertaking for regular discussion with the club. This has been achieved. The Janaury meeting will focus on a specific topic - probably attendances - when BRISA will expect to receive definitive answers to our questions. "Will not happen issues" are those which require Premier League agreement or a change in the law. The sense is do not waste time on these issues at a local level. By all means campaign through the FSF and present a view to the club but recognise these are two examples of issues that Blackburn Rovers can influence but cannot change on its own. In other words lets talk about the things Rovers can change locally, we can argue all we want for standing in the BBE but it won't happen without a change in the law. The campaigning therefore has to be national through the FSF. Fans are going to have to get to grips with this aspect of what may or may not be realistic. I originally used "standing " as the example in the minutes and then changed it to "salary caps". My thinking was that saying standing was a will not happen issue would not have been wise WHEN IT WAS AN EXAMPLE not a definitive statement. With respect I feel you haven't thought that remark through. Salary caps can only work at a PL level. Imagine Rovers or any other club decide to bring in a salary cap. Immediately the club is handicapped by a self-imposed limit on its spending in this area. Players will not sign because the club cannot match salaries elsewhere; the club starts the season with a weaker squad, results are poor, support drops, income drops, the transfer window opens but players won't come beacause the club pays lower wages and is in the bottom three.......and so it goes on. Salary caps only work if the whole league plays by the rules...andthey wouldn't, ways would be found to manipulate the money paid to a player - 10K per week plus 100k in "image rights" No one club can light that fire. As we have yet to present any views on those subjects to Rovers it's hard to see how they can be accused of not wishing to work with BRISA. First we have to present our case, receive a response and then it can be criticised. Overall the meeting was a real success and has given us a serious indication of how to move forward. it also clearly underlined the real need for more people to be actively involved with BRISA. We have a massive workload ahead of us if we are to make sensible, coherent representations to the club. Williams and Finn are not going to continue to give up their evenings to a bunch of fans talking off the cuff.

Good I hope you do Rev. When I first replied to this I had a real good rant, hit the wrong key and logged out by mistake! Probably a good thing. If this is truely the impression BRISA needs some objective criticism. There are some very practical reasons for needing membership: - we can't keep funding BRISA from our own pockets, as we have for a year - JW/TF ask how many does BRISA represent? err......welll...um.....'bout 12 isn't going to sound too clever - nationally the more active fans affiliated to organisations such as FSF the better - BRISA would like to develop supporters groups around the country/overseas. This is seen as a crucial social aspect of BRISA, the more the merrier Beyond the above whether one is a member or not is irrelevant. BRISA will be ready to represent any view, from any fan. Personally I'm ready to represent views I don't agree with or see no point in. For example I don't want to stand but I understand for many this is crucial. I'm happy to take that as an important issue BRISA should back at a local and national level. I have severe doubts it will ever change. However thousands around the UK want a change and BRISA must back that - in my opinion. As for openness and inclusion we've published everything to everyone through every media outlet available to BRISA. Everyone is invited to the committee meetings etc. I would be delighted to receive a similar invitation to attend the next Fans Forum. I have no idea what the FF does, who represents ME or what is said on MY behalf? The FF makes no public effort to understand the support while BRISA is busting a gut to do so. Sorry to sound agressive Simon, I just believe in BRISA and know how we have agonised over trying to get things in the correct perspective. It's disappointing some cannot see or believe what BRISA is saying. There are no secrets, everyone is equal.

This was debated long and hard. For some of us bitter experience on brfcs.com suggested a Forum in which only paid up members could post was the better starting point. The intention is it should be read only for guests and I think that it currently isn't is a simple error. I don't have Admin authority on the BRISA site so I can't fix it. If I could it would be done already. The reason for members only posting is simple: - we don't want to moderate the forum - we don't want discussion on football matches, refs etc - when the issues surrounding ethnic support arise we don't want the usual situation to arise - the belief is those who bother to sign up will be self-policing

A couple of points about the agenda: 1. Thursday is primarily a business meeting centred on BRISA's organisation. The boring stuff committee's have to deal with 2. We know there are issues people have raised which are not on the agenda. These have not been forgotten, we have to prioritise if we are to make progress. Suggestions are not forgotten or ignored. 3. We have the impression quite a few people are planning to attend. Excellent news, If you are planning to attend please post in here so we can warn the Waters Edge to get more staff in. They are only expecting 15.

For those who are interested/planning to attend here is the agenda for Thursday night: 1) Introduction & Apologies 2) Membership Summary 3) Financial Summary 4) Review of meeting with BRFC - 03/11/05 4.1: Review how it went 4.2: Discuss how we are going to work with the club in the future 4.3: Assign committee members to be club contacts 4.4: Agree topic for next club meeting e.g. attendances 4.5: Discuss how we are going to get the maximum input from the membership and general support regarding this topic 4.6 Assign committee member to coordinate responses 5) Membership Communication 5.1: Finalising the membership packs. - Agree final contents - Assign someone to send the packs out - Confirm when they will be ready - Estimated cost? 5.2: Newsletter. - Agree content - Assign committee members to produce it - Agree on how often will we produce it - Discuss how we are going to produce it e.g. printing method, photocopying etc - Estimated cost? 5.3: Website. - Discuss ideas for additional content - Assign committee members to update the site - Forums (moderation, setup, maintenance) - Possible merge with BRFCS - good idea or bad? 5.4: Non-internet members. - How do we update them? 6) Supporters Groups 6.1: Discuss how we can maximise our links with Ewood Blues 6.2: Discuss how we can incorporate other existing supporters associations into BRISA 6.3: Discuss how we encourage people to setup their own groups 6.4: Assign specific committee members to deal with this area 7) Football Supporters Federation (FSF) 7.1: Are we going to join? 7.2: If yes to the above, then assign FSF reps 8 ) Fund Raising Fund 8.1: Discuss possible fund-raising methods (e.g. sponsorship) 8.2: Assign specific committee members to deal with this area 9) Any Other Business 10) Next Meeting Date

OK this is a personal view. One thing is clear prior to a meeting with the club the committtee must: - prepare and research its facts - be in agreement on how those facts/views will be presented to the club With regard to attendance I hope we would discuss: - what has been tried to date - which actions have been successful/failed - why does the club think these actions failed/succeeded - what does the club plan for the future From this we should gain the club's view. Knowing this we can offer some immediate response from the fans perspective. We don't expect to come up with an idea to solve the problem overnight. We have ideas to try discover the true reasons for non-attendance but for the moment it would be unwise to say more than that.

We still have to finalise the agenda but I'll be surprised if the next meeting doesn't focus on attendance.

Well yes I understand the words but I don't comprehend the meaning. Taken to its ultimate logic none of us, least of all women, would be entitled to a vote. BRISA is not looking for conflict with the club; we have said we wish to work with the club but have made it clear we are not afraid to challenge the club when necessary. That is if or when we believe the club to be acting against the best interests of the fans. Challenge is an important word. Imagine the club decide on a 25% ticket price increase for next year, BRISA would be challenging the club to demonstrate why this is necessary. If BRISA were simply run by the club the committee would be expected to roll over, have it's tummy tickled and state how lucky that its only 25%.

All very true. I hope we have communicated well with the membership to date as it's one of our key aims. We can't very well argue for better communication from the club without setting an example ourselves. I have no idea how many fans belonged to the old OSAs. I do know JW and TF were prepared to listen when BRISA was just eight people with an idea, prior to the launch the club provided a great deal of support but without interferring at all; after the launch we were able to report 100 members (the original end of season target), now we have 170 and I expect 250 inside another month. I don't feel we need a critical mass to impress JW, but the more members we have the more representative BRISA becomes.

If you explain the logic to me I'd be happy to argue your corner but at present I don't understand your view. I don't agree with your view but if you would like it represented I'll happily do so but I'll need to understand it first. But the whole point is not that the club wants to keep the fans in line, the club wants and/or needs to understand why so many fans chose to stay away. BRISA first came about because of the concerns of a group that attendances were dropping and there seemed to be a wedge being driven between the support and the club. As for boycotting games? At the launch night I stated my view as roughly "I'm not a campaigning individual, if we ever have to take to the streets of Blackburn we wil have failed before the protest begins." Mark Longden, IMUSA, suggested we might all one day be on the streets of London protesting with thousands of other clubs supporters for the good of the game. Now that could be a different proposition.

I very much hope we won't be taking the views of the highly committed to JW and TF. The committed simply want to see the ground full as do JW and TF so it wouldn't be much of a discussion. I hope over time the BRISA committee, who are all highly committed, will be able to represent the views of those who have yet to be certified! What impresses me is the committment shown by John Williams and Tom Finn. With their leadership the committment surely must run right through the club. The need is to demonstrate that committment to the fan bas and turn the doubters into believers. Communication, communication, communication............never read the Guardian in my life