Bellamy is a far better forward player than any other they have got in my opinion. QED

Superstella has got it right. Interesting to see that by the look of things, EPL clubs will have finished top of all their Groups in the CL and the UEFA Cups. Even the Sunday Pub League clubs from north of the border did well.

My God! I totally agree with and applaud the drog's last two posts. Excellent result for Rovers. The club goes forwards with its head held high. The supporters have collectively got their heads totally muddled and befuddled and that is being kind.

Probably this thread.

We didn't- we had an OK first 20 minutes ruined by Benni getting offside in promising positions but we were opening them up very nicely, had a goal chalked off and forced a great save out of Given. Problem was the catastrophic 20 minutes before half time that stuck in everyone's memory. Even so. if I remember correctly we shaded the first half posession and territory figures.

This link has a current away fans' guide.

Next up (or down) in the Prem are Reading away at the Madejski Stadium. Anyone needing details of parkng (not good) or directions, click on Madejski Stadium here. To say that Reading FC are older than Rovers (135 years old now), games between the two clubs have been few and thankfully (given the leagues they have been playing in) far between. I remember a 4-0 thrashing they gave us at Elm Park once which presaged a thoroughly miserable season for the Rovers and a draw as games I've been to and that's about that. Reading have two nicknames- the Royals apparently because of their proximity to Windsor Castle; and the Biscuitmen- because they make biscuits in Reading with Huntley & Palmers the local scions of teeth rotting. Autotrader was set up by John Madejski and I often saw him in his knocked down Roller round the pubs and restaurants of the Thames Valley. He has bankrolled the club with careful support for many years and the 24,000 seat stadium bears his name. It is worth remembering that Jack was going to build Ewood on exactly the same design until he realised that the crowd support needed something bigger than the 24,000 capacity. (happy days!) Today Reading are looking to increase capacity by 50%. Reading also has the biggest stone statue of a lion in the world so it is famous for something! The town of Reading has been for many years the fastest growing urban area in Europe with the population having doubled to over 200,000 in less than twenty years. Notably part of the silicon triangle with numerous IT companies, the global headquarters of Vodafone are just down the road in Newbury whilst proximity to Heathrow is a huge boon to the area. If ever a town has been promoted to the urban premier league, Reading certainly has been. So the football club has caught up and this is Reading's debut season in the top flight and Rovers debut appearance at the Madejski as far as I can recall. And we all know what happens when Rovers go to a stadium for the first time? That's right, we christen it by getting beaten. I asked a few questions on "Off at eleven" a Reading fans site and got zero replies- not even a rude one. However "Hob Nob Anyone" (as their name would suggest) were much more obliging so here is a compilation of the collective wit and wisdom of Reading supporters: -What differences are you finding between the Coca Cola and the Premiership? Surprisingly few so far. The main difference is that you are more likely to be punished for a mistake at this level or an opposition player is more able to change a game with a moment of brilliance. Players seem to find more space in the prem and are capable of punishing the slightest mistake. Gamesmanship and diving are much more common than in the CHAMPIONShip. The players are physically more imposing and cynical. Teams are more defensive. A lot less hoofing the ball up the pitch, a lot more aimless passing across the back / through midfield. A lot of players run after the referee for about 15 minutes after any decision is given against them (chelsea, man u etc) this didn't happen as much in the championship The noise inside the Madejski for a start. Suddenly Reading fans seem to have realised that, actually, they do have the capability of vocally supporting the team! On the playing side, certainly a much higher standard of football, much better individual ability. On the sh*te sde though, much more lazy journalism, much more in the way of disrespect, and many more c*ntish fans like Chelsea's pack of dogs. Teams hold onto possession better and are generally take their chances better but football wise there really is little difference between the majority of the premiership and the top half of the Championship. The Championship pisses on the Premiership for value for money and atmosphere though. Apart from the expense, a better standard of cheating and ###### refs. Obviously more media attention, some people have actually heard of us now. Visiting fans to the mad stad don't sing so much There seem to be a lot less goals many more overpaid wasters One thing I have noticed is that refs do loads of favours for the so called top 4, Chelsea,Man u, Arsenal and Liverpool. There have been some diabolical decisions made. Why do you think the team is doing so well? Who are your outstanding players? We play as a team. Every player knows that they are replaceable and every player on the edge of the team knows that if they come in and play well they will keep their place regardless of who they have replaced. We have no real stars though obviously Kevin Doyle isn't doing too badly. We are a young team that has played together now for 2-3 years without a great deal of changes, this continuity has helped. Teamwork, consistency of playing together for a few years. The combined factor of us being a decent side and the premiership being overrated. The reason we are doing so well is Steve Coppell. The team is doing so well because because we play direct, fast paced football. You can see the passion and desire in the players to prove themsleves. Teamwork, spirit, buckets of ability and a brilliant manager capable of getting the very best out of his squad. Doyle is an obvious stand out player, full of running and an eye for goal but it's hard to pick out individuals. Our defence has a great understanding, not surprising considering it's been settled for 2 years and we have great options in midfield. Cos we're super Reading, super Reading FC, we're by far the greatest team the world has ever seen. Outstanding players are Hahnemann, Murty, Shorey, Sonko, Ingimarsson, Harper, Sidwell, Hunt, Seol, Little, Doyle, Lita, Convey etc... Simple. We have a quality side that very few people give us respect for. We play good attacking football, none of this in the air game that Watford and Chelsea like to play. We have the ability to score goals. And when we take the lead in a game (very often done over the last 18 months) we very rarely surrender that lead. Because nobody'd ever heard of us before we got promoted the majority of people thought the customary thing to do would have been to be relegated in 1 season and vanish without a trace. Of course, this is Reading. We don't do customary. Players to watch are Nicky Shorey (left back), Ibrahima Sonko (big black goon at the back), Glen Little (if he plays) and Kevin Doyle. Your keeper should also watch out for Stephen Hunt's knee. We were this good last season, only it seems nobody was watching! We've only signed one new first team squad for £1.5m (Soel Ki-Hyeon) and have a couple of key players out injured (Kitson & Convey) who would have been starters and most likely ever presents in the starting lineup. Glen Little can win matches on his day, but Kevin Doyle seems to be on fire when it comes to finding the back of the net. We are team who enjoy playing football, not a bunch of stars thinking out extending their mock-tudor mansions and their next appearence in OK magazine. We've got a lot of players who've spent years playing in the lower divisions and appreciate being here. The manager has built a team of players who can actually fit to a tactical system, and who have come here to play, not because the money's good. We have a manager who actually knows something about coaching, and doesn't think shouting a lot is a substitute for instruction. We also slip rohypnol into the away team's lucazade bottles. What are the weak links in the team? None. Lack of depth in the squad, to a certain extent the team picks itself. If we suffer injuries our form will dip. The first and last 5 minutes of any game. Stephen Hunt's hair. Our goalkeeper has a cr*p taste in music. Seriously, we probably lack height up front. With Kitson out we lack that target man, although having said that Kevin Doyle can more than hold his own, Leroy has springs in his boots and Seol's not exactly short either. Currently, with Kitson out, no height up front. we aren't passing as well as last season either, mainly because hardly anyone wants to play football. Unfare to single out individuals. However, we desparately lack cover at the back and up front. It's no coincidence that we've won every game when our first choice back 5 has played the full 90 minutes and struggled when it hasn't. Up front, Doyle's brilliant form has masked the fact that we desparately miss Dave Kitson. The caterers. What are the realistic targets for the Royals this season? To win the next game. Staying up and achieving mid table obscurity. Win the fair play league. Everyone would take mid table mediocrity if it was offered to them now, but if we can keep up this form there's no reason why we shouldn't at least aim to have an interest in the european spots. Injuries and the success of any potential January signings will have a massive baring on this though. When do you think Madejski will sell the Royals and how much for? If There's one thing JM loves more than RFC it's getting in the papers / on tv. I don't think he will sell, and if he does he will with the caveat he remains on the board of directors or some similar position. He would not sell it for money (unless it was a lot) but in the knowledge that someone else could take reading further. He's not prepared to throw money into the club on the same scale as the bigger clubs and will sell if it's in the clubs best interests, Sure he'll make a profit but if it was all about money he wouldn't of bought a football club as he can make more elsewhere. Whatever he can get if he finds the right person, I think he will be here for a few seasons more though. I can't see Madejski selling before the stadium redevelopment is complete. He's enjoying it too much at the moment. Whatever he sells it for, it will be a hell of a lot more than what he bought it for. I think that most fans hope that he'll never sell it, but he's a businessman, so he'll sell it when it's right for him. I hope that he'll see us right though and leave us in good hands. In terms of price, it really depends on whether he'll be selling the stadium with it. I would imagine something in the region of £50m. He'll sell for a profit, that's for sure and he'll only sell to the right person or persons as he won't want to tarnish his God like status by screwing the fans over. When a decent, honest, reliable and interested party shows some interest. I'm still waiting to hear back on my offer of £30 and Cilla's back catalogue of records. Any comments about Blackburn Rovers? Worthy Premiership Champions in their day. Good team, good manager IMHO. Am very surprised that you seem to be struggling this year. Established premiership outfit with a great manager. I like Rovers, a bit unsure about MH as Manager though. I can certainly think of at least 3 more teams that I would rather see relegated. Looks like you are struggling to cope with UEFA Cup and the League. A tough side to play against. I do see them as a physical team, and although that may be a cliché the fact that they are bottom of the fair play league does seem to back this up. Think they can play good football mind and rate McCarthy and Pedersen as players. A good side, not likely to go down anytime soon. Good manager, some very good players. If they had a Darren Bent, I think they could could make themselves regular participants of European football. Mark Hughes has done a great job. Where are all your fans?? I think blackburn have always been tarred with the brush of a strong physical dirty side. I doubt this is true, Not really seen enough of them to form a considered opinion - so don't want to fall into the same trap as most ignorant commentators who wrote off our chances before a ball was kicked - as if 106 points,99 goals, 33 game unbeaten run was a fluke! Horrible to watch, dirty, hard, annoying, poor support, over achieving, A couple of decent players. (another poster followed up- But apart from that you think they're quite good?) A team in the image of their manager. Capable of great skill but equally adept at kicking you in the ###### when the ref's back is turned. Perdersen is a brilliant player and given the chance, Tugay can boss the game. Ultimately thought, hugely underachieving given the talent available. Robbie Savage is a complete tart. Loves to dish it out, but can't take it. This game represents our greatest risk of injury to our small squad. This got the reply: Personally think we've just survived that one. Blackburn aren't as rough as people make them out to be. Another North West Team which struggles to fill the ground with OT and Anfield on the doorstep. Gutsy High energy team. Poor Disciplinary record. Bought your way to the title in '95, done pretty much nothing but mediocrity since. Now they're living within their means more I have a lot more respect for them. Excellent manager, and they have some excellent quality individual players; Benni McCarthy, Tugay, Morten Gamst Pederson to name but 3. I seem to remember us beating you 4-0 back in 1986/7. I wasn't at the game, but I was amazed to discover the score! I also loved it when you beat the Manc scum to the title in 1995 and Alan Shearer was a magnificent player for you. I have a horrible feeling they'll be another team who'll pack the midfield and try to grind out a result. As a club, full credit for staying up as finances must be stretched. Are we playing Bristol Rovers? I thought it was Burnley that we have in the FA Cup, (he got stick from fellow posters for this!) You'd be lost without Gamst-Morgen (where's wakefieldrawks?...) Score prediction? Yes there will be a score at the end of the game. Apart from that smart alec response, most posters were reluctant to predict. Those that did referred to Fortress Madejski, Rovers mid-week UEFA game and that Rovers would finish with 10 men. The scores were: 0-0 1 vote 1-1 1 vote 1-0 4 votes 2-1 3 votes 2-0 6 votes Reading like to play open football so for a full strength Rovers would be ideal opposition to get something from. But it looks like we will be 6 injuries (at least- there's Nancy still to play) and a suspension short. We could go down to another 4-0 reverse.

That was a sickener. Watching it with a bunch of Geordie ship workers didn't help either. First off- it was actually a cracking good game. The attempts on goal statistics were Rovers 13, Newcastle 16, which shows it was a real end-to-end open game and the corner count was Rovers 7, Newcastle 4. Everyone is forgetting that Rovers made a bright start and were on top for 20 minutes with a five minute spell they caused mayhem in the Newcastle defence, Benni had a goal chalked off and Given made an excetional save (one in the second half was even better). The killer first half statistic was on offsides- Rovers 5, Newcastle 0. Everyone of those 5 was Benni- everyone except the "goal" was avoidable and destroyed a great goal scoring chance. I'll forgive him the disallowed goal as he timed his move for the initial pass to perfection- problem was Nonda intercepted before playing it through in a single movement by which time Benni had gone offside and finished beautifully. However, chucking away five excellent attacking moves because Benni got his bearings wrong (or forgot to look) hurts at this level. When Newcastle got on top we had no answer. Sky didn't show any angle to make a definitive assessment of the rather offside looking Martins for the first. We were being ripped apart before Gray was pinioned to the floor in the set up which two players went for when the ball was crossed. Even then, the ball back had harmlessly gone back across the face of goal until MGP deliberately handled at the back post setting it up neatly for Taylor to slot home! Henchoz certainly fouled but the red looked harsh given where it was. Second half we pulled ourselves together and what a lovely right footed strike by MGP. GIVE THE LAD CREDIT. Immediately afterwards, Derbyshire was through with "just" Given to beat. He looked up for a pass along the six yard box, saw nobody but still passed instead of having a go! If we'd scored two in two, we would have gone on to win. The officials might even have seen the punch thrown by the Newcastle player. Concluding thoughts: Hughes did right with his half time double substitution. He needs to practise first halves though. Derbyshire would struggle if he were not facing the third choice players in one of the worst defences in the Prem- lets be realistic. Benni would be a cracking player if he got his offsides right. Last season our midfield could dominate games- not this season. Combination of Reid missing and the rest being sussed out. We are in heaps of trouble if the opposition runs strongly and quickly at our defence. How quick is Warnock?

Agents who didn't co-operate with Stevens' bung enquiry to be named and banned next week.

As I have explained elsewhere, in the longer term these investors coming into the EPL are interested in one thing- making money out of the clubs. Big money. So if you compare Rovers where the shasreholders contribute around £6m a year and Newcastle today where the shareholders probably already extract around £5m a year in dividends and inflated salaries for themselves, Rovers are ahead of the game and will continue to be so in the future withy their current ownership to an increasing extent. However, the picture looks very different this January and we all know what angst just one bad defeat/performance brings to these boards. Whether supporters go to Ewood or not is very much about the here and now. The Sky/Setanta bonanza is just around the corner with a probable value of £50m over 3 years IF Premiership status is retained. New owners have to be seen to be investing so there are going to be millions- no tens of millions sloshing around in the coming window looking for players, all of whom are within contract of some length or another. Transfer fees are going to go up and Sparky is probably already deeply sickened by talking to venal agents who will be more than exploiting the situation. I do think the Walker Trust will loosen the purse strings but what use will an extra £5m be when faced with: Villa £20m Sheff U £10m West Ham £10m Citeh and Everton doing refinancings? As Hughes says, you expect the Big 4 and Spuds to be splashing around but quite a few clubs in our bracket are going to be seriously funded giving Rovers a headache in the markets for players we have recently been operating in. If anyone wondered why an Egyptian and a Cypriot will be at Brockhall just before Christmas- this is one of the reasons.

Excellent news is that the scan shows Emo's hamstring pull to be nowhere near as bad as first feared and he should be back for the Christmas games.

There is nothing reational about this comment but I feel pretty certain we will take our first home three points off the barcodes since we did them 5-2 in 2002. A certain Tiny Taylor was the goal scoring revelation that day- Ooijer and Henchoz on the scoresheet tomorrow? Souness' preview

But when was the Brockhall facility built? I think the thing was given the Academy name in 1998 but substantially existed long before then. I remember Jack stating the objective of building up the club's youth strength the moment he arrived at Rovers and he didn't hang around for seven years before doing anything.

Don't know about buck passing or buck stopping but Reading 5 Rovers 1 in the FA Youth Cup after we had taken the lead calls for some buck shot to be fired in the direction of someone's behind. I don't know when the Academy became the Academy but for me the current project should be measured from the time Jack started seriously investing in that side of the club- around 1993. These things tend to go in cycles and I can think of only one top flight club that regularly bloods one or more graduates from the youth set-up every season. The exception is Arsenal and they are spending £8m+ a year on their Academy including youth transfer fees. Back to Rovers and I would say the investment of some £25m+ in developing Youth since 1993 has been worthwhile- it is a ten year or so cycle over which these sorts of things have to be measured. - £23m transfer fees for Duff and Dunn - Lots of minor fees including in the past couple of years getting £1m sell on for Beattie, £300K sell on from Danns, £150K sell on from Bruce; there is probably more. - direct transfers out such as Douglas. - The huge boost seeing Duff and Dunn at their peak- our lads produced by our club. - As has been pointed out already, even though Gally, Peter and Derbyshire are not setting any pulses racing, simply having them at the club probably saved us at least £2m on equivalent very much needed squad players and they are probably not paid as much as transfer ins would be costing. So I'd say the Academy is comfortably washing its face even though the current crop gives serious grounds for concern.

There seems to be quite a few adverse comments about Downes down the seasons. Its a tricky position as 95% of your output fails absolutely and 4% are successes because they make careers in League football. I'm no expert in these things but there are also a lot of comments that English training of youngsters is nowhere nearly enough skills based or sufficiently intensive compared with the French for example. One quibble about the previous posts- it is not just Irish youngsters the Rovers have a track record of signing at the Academy, half the German u-18 squad seems to be there as well. There is a couple of them that the club is very excited about.

TV money for the Prem leaps by around 60% next year. The current raft of investors are providing rich paydays for clubs' former owners and will be looking to turn a more than tidy profit on their investment. If you are buying Liverpool, you are buying into making a massive investment in a club with an under-exploited brand value. If you are buying into Citeh, you are buying into a decent-sized risk of relegation and associated financial headaches. With that sort of risk profile, a 20%+ annual return is the minimum profits required and the new Sky deal potentially offers that. Its the reason why I think the tournequet on wages will continue- English clubs no longer need to worry about losing players to all but half a dozen non-EPL clubs as the EPL has the financial muscle already. So long as EPL clubs don't start a stupid war amongst themselves, the pickings for owners of clubs which stay in the EPL for the next three years will be rich indeed. In fact, Rovers could find the Walker Trust ownership a financial advantage in the new climate- the owners take nothing out (no big wages a la FF, loan payments Glazered over or stonking dividends as paid at quite a few clubs) and actually put an average of £6m a year into the club. The up front largesse on transfers by buyers is little more than a dowry payment to the supporters- they'll only see it once and its there primarilly to avoid relegation risks.

OK if forced to decide, the romantic side wins- UEFA Cup in Glasgow will be very nice indeed! (and we will automatically qualify as number 1 seeds for next year's UEFA Cup competition)

Following on from Liverpool United Reds becoming an offshore island of Dubai, now Citeh are at it as well.

Whilst we are on the alienation theme... I am glad I experienced the old days but equally glad the bad aspects are long since gone.

I'm in a minority on this thread but I really do not see us as relegation candidates unless we lose Ooijer, Brad and Savage to long term injuries on 1st Feb. People are saying we have a thin squad but we went into the Charlton game without five injured players and frankly played a line-up that was plain wrong. Emo should have been at right back and Tugay drafted back into the starting Xl. OK I understand the need to find out if Bentley really can hack it in central midfield against a relative mediocre opposition midfield but we lost 3 points on that experiment. The Premiership is concertinaed after Chelsea and the Mancs. We are almost at Christmas and eleven points separate 3rd from a relegation place- 9 points between 3rd and 17th. There is no Sunderland-style whipping boy this season either as Watford and Charlton are picking points as we know. So this means: - middle of the table this season probably will have a balance of four defeats more than wins (Mancs and Chelsea will double most clubs the pace they are having to go at to win the Prem) . A moderate season will feel poor. - PL goal scoring has collapsed 20% overall. A moderate season will feel bad. - Everybody can beat everybody else outside the top two. A moderate season will be littered with frustrating defeats. The risk is that when the music stops in May, somebody very unexpected will be sitting in 18th or 19th with 37 or more points. - Fortunately Watford seem to have neither the money nor the squad depth to survive and the chances are Warnock will use a chunk of his £10m on Akinbaye type buys. - I would nominate Newcastle, Boro, Wigan and Citeh as more likely candidates to be in the wrong place when the music stops than us. Our crisis is at the front- Nonda is not hacking it, Roberts and Jeffers are injured and Gally showed why he is not an option. Benni despite his 8 goals has missed some sitters recently causing a new frissance of alarm to add to his non-EPL style of play. So, my best guess is: - money will be spent in January. The Walker Trust knows what Jack's will tells them and they will feel as obliged to ensure Prem survival now as they ever have done with the bonanza coming next year. - we might well be disappointed in who we get. There will be masses of money chasing not many players this January. - we won't miss Neill very much when he leaves - we will get at least two out of Nelsen, Reid and Roberts playing very close to their best by end February and that will make all the difference be it a push for Europe or an escape from the bottom. As for the UEFA, if we beat Nancy we have to hope we are not unlucky in the draw on 15 December. If we don't beat Nancy we have to hope we get lucky on 15 December. I think a Boro-last season- type prospect is before us. Defeat in the late stages of the UEFA and a thoroughly dispiriting but not particularly life threatening Prem campaign.

Emerton out for two weeks- same hamstring problem as earlier in the season. Hughes blaming lack of summer rest.

Many thanks to you guys for answering my questions on HNA. I also stuck the same questions on another Reading MB and nobody has responded- not even some abuse! How does it feel being one of the four teams to have won the Prem? Proud, fantastic, dreamland etc. Was sensational when it happened- beyond all our wildest fantasies that dear little old Rovers could win the big one again. Always nice to respond to uppety Newcastle, Liverpool, Spuds etc supporters with "Have you won the Premier League?" What do you think of Mark Hughes? Excellent manager. Has been very sound in the transfer market, seems to be a good man manager and has the technical side of running the playing staff as advanced as any. UEFA Cup – Heaven or Hell? Heaven. Been in Europe 6 times out of 12 Premiership seasons now but this is the first non-embarassment. Interesting that playing European sides now seems so much easier than the Premiership. We've beaten the league leaders of Austria and Poland and Basle and Feyernoord have reasonable European heritage as well. I fancy that beating Nancy before we play Reading is going to be important for Rovers' prospects of continued progress. Why has your season started so indifferently? When Charlton scored in the 94th minute last night we were missing Nelsen (detatched hamstring; one of the best in the Prem and responsible for at least 6 points with goal saving tackles last season), Reid (broken back; revelation second half of last season), Roberts (broken metatarsal; summer's most expensive signing), Kizanishvilli and Jeffers (both groin injuries), Emerton (hamstring gone), Pederson (finally out with broken rib) and Bentley (kicked to pieces by Fulham). Henchoz only played after a late fitness test and Neill and McCarthy are both well less than 100% fit. Some real muppet refereeing going against us and missing all three penalties we've been awarded hasn't helped either. However, the key factor is the loss of Bellamy- we know longer have anyone who scares the opposition and takes two opposing players to watch him creating space for everyone else. Injuries and suspensions have disrupted our usual high tempo accurate passing game. Who has performed above expectations for your team? And who not? Emerton has beaten all expectations. Ooijer has come good after a shaky start, Bentley continues to look great in patches, McCarthy slotting them reliably until missing some sitters in recent games. The two greats- Friedel and Tugay have been performing at or near their very best. Savage has not been as imposing as he can be, Pederson's confidence is shot to non-existant. Why do you not sell out the ground? Tell you what, halve the population of Reading, halve the income of the ones left, stick a Premiership club in Henley, another in Wokingham, move Man U and Man City to Maidenhead, Liverpool and Everton to Slough and promote Pangbourne into League 2 and tell me why Reading don't sell out the Madejski. What do you think of Reading? Delighted for you. I think you are in the Premiership to stay. Coppell coming good after a long and painful management apprenticeship. Score Prediction? I was there when you beat us 4-0 at Elm Park. You might repeat that scoreline. Any finally - tell me some Interesting fact about your club? The only club in the world still to have won major trophies in the nineteenth, twentieth and twenty first centuries.

When the deal was signed, the Rovers management were reported at being elated by the amount they were getting for the club from SWI. I wonder if SWI paid for a "non-interference" clause from Rovers? If that is the case, Rovers won't breathe a word of complaint/suggestion as I would imagine SWI are not exactly quids in on the deal and could be looking for any opportunity to break the contract legitimately.

Stevens asks for yet more time. It seems that a bust agency (they must have been bad!), Allardyce and the Earnshaw transfer are attracting a lot of attention.

You are right Roverite. Year in year out we went to the Valley, played well, they played badly and we lost. Sparky has cut out some of the stupid defeats but we are going to have to fight very very hard to win this one.