Don't know about buck passing or buck stopping but Reading 5 Rovers 1 in the FA Youth Cup after we had taken the lead calls for some buck shot to be fired in the direction of someone's behind. I don't know when the Academy became the Academy but for me the current project should be measured from the time Jack started seriously investing in that side of the club- around 1993. These things tend to go in cycles and I can think of only one top flight club that regularly bloods one or more graduates from the youth set-up every season. The exception is Arsenal and they are spending £8m+ a year on their Academy including youth transfer fees. Back to Rovers and I would say the investment of some £25m+ in developing Youth since 1993 has been worthwhile- it is a ten year or so cycle over which these sorts of things have to be measured. - £23m transfer fees for Duff and Dunn - Lots of minor fees including in the past couple of years getting £1m sell on for Beattie, £300K sell on from Danns, £150K sell on from Bruce; there is probably more. - direct transfers out such as Douglas. - The huge boost seeing Duff and Dunn at their peak- our lads produced by our club. - As has been pointed out already, even though Gally, Peter and Derbyshire are not setting any pulses racing, simply having them at the club probably saved us at least £2m on equivalent very much needed squad players and they are probably not paid as much as transfer ins would be costing. So I'd say the Academy is comfortably washing its face even though the current crop gives serious grounds for concern.

There seems to be quite a few adverse comments about Downes down the seasons. Its a tricky position as 95% of your output fails absolutely and 4% are successes because they make careers in League football. I'm no expert in these things but there are also a lot of comments that English training of youngsters is nowhere nearly enough skills based or sufficiently intensive compared with the French for example. One quibble about the previous posts- it is not just Irish youngsters the Rovers have a track record of signing at the Academy, half the German u-18 squad seems to be there as well. There is a couple of them that the club is very excited about.

TV money for the Prem leaps by around 60% next year. The current raft of investors are providing rich paydays for clubs' former owners and will be looking to turn a more than tidy profit on their investment. If you are buying Liverpool, you are buying into making a massive investment in a club with an under-exploited brand value. If you are buying into Citeh, you are buying into a decent-sized risk of relegation and associated financial headaches. With that sort of risk profile, a 20%+ annual return is the minimum profits required and the new Sky deal potentially offers that. Its the reason why I think the tournequet on wages will continue- English clubs no longer need to worry about losing players to all but half a dozen non-EPL clubs as the EPL has the financial muscle already. So long as EPL clubs don't start a stupid war amongst themselves, the pickings for owners of clubs which stay in the EPL for the next three years will be rich indeed. In fact, Rovers could find the Walker Trust ownership a financial advantage in the new climate- the owners take nothing out (no big wages a la FF, loan payments Glazered over or stonking dividends as paid at quite a few clubs) and actually put an average of £6m a year into the club. The up front largesse on transfers by buyers is little more than a dowry payment to the supporters- they'll only see it once and its there primarilly to avoid relegation risks.

OK if forced to decide, the romantic side wins- UEFA Cup in Glasgow will be very nice indeed! (and we will automatically qualify as number 1 seeds for next year's UEFA Cup competition)

Following on from Liverpool United Reds becoming an offshore island of Dubai, now Citeh are at it as well.

Whilst we are on the alienation theme... I am glad I experienced the old days but equally glad the bad aspects are long since gone.

I'm in a minority on this thread but I really do not see us as relegation candidates unless we lose Ooijer, Brad and Savage to long term injuries on 1st Feb. People are saying we have a thin squad but we went into the Charlton game without five injured players and frankly played a line-up that was plain wrong. Emo should have been at right back and Tugay drafted back into the starting Xl. OK I understand the need to find out if Bentley really can hack it in central midfield against a relative mediocre opposition midfield but we lost 3 points on that experiment. The Premiership is concertinaed after Chelsea and the Mancs. We are almost at Christmas and eleven points separate 3rd from a relegation place- 9 points between 3rd and 17th. There is no Sunderland-style whipping boy this season either as Watford and Charlton are picking points as we know. So this means: - middle of the table this season probably will have a balance of four defeats more than wins (Mancs and Chelsea will double most clubs the pace they are having to go at to win the Prem) . A moderate season will feel poor. - PL goal scoring has collapsed 20% overall. A moderate season will feel bad. - Everybody can beat everybody else outside the top two. A moderate season will be littered with frustrating defeats. The risk is that when the music stops in May, somebody very unexpected will be sitting in 18th or 19th with 37 or more points. - Fortunately Watford seem to have neither the money nor the squad depth to survive and the chances are Warnock will use a chunk of his £10m on Akinbaye type buys. - I would nominate Newcastle, Boro, Wigan and Citeh as more likely candidates to be in the wrong place when the music stops than us. Our crisis is at the front- Nonda is not hacking it, Roberts and Jeffers are injured and Gally showed why he is not an option. Benni despite his 8 goals has missed some sitters recently causing a new frissance of alarm to add to his non-EPL style of play. So, my best guess is: - money will be spent in January. The Walker Trust knows what Jack's will tells them and they will feel as obliged to ensure Prem survival now as they ever have done with the bonanza coming next year. - we might well be disappointed in who we get. There will be masses of money chasing not many players this January. - we won't miss Neill very much when he leaves - we will get at least two out of Nelsen, Reid and Roberts playing very close to their best by end February and that will make all the difference be it a push for Europe or an escape from the bottom. As for the UEFA, if we beat Nancy we have to hope we are not unlucky in the draw on 15 December. If we don't beat Nancy we have to hope we get lucky on 15 December. I think a Boro-last season- type prospect is before us. Defeat in the late stages of the UEFA and a thoroughly dispiriting but not particularly life threatening Prem campaign.

Emerton out for two weeks- same hamstring problem as earlier in the season. Hughes blaming lack of summer rest.

Many thanks to you guys for answering my questions on HNA. I also stuck the same questions on another Reading MB and nobody has responded- not even some abuse! How does it feel being one of the four teams to have won the Prem? Proud, fantastic, dreamland etc. Was sensational when it happened- beyond all our wildest fantasies that dear little old Rovers could win the big one again. Always nice to respond to uppety Newcastle, Liverpool, Spuds etc supporters with "Have you won the Premier League?" What do you think of Mark Hughes? Excellent manager. Has been very sound in the transfer market, seems to be a good man manager and has the technical side of running the playing staff as advanced as any. UEFA Cup – Heaven or Hell? Heaven. Been in Europe 6 times out of 12 Premiership seasons now but this is the first non-embarassment. Interesting that playing European sides now seems so much easier than the Premiership. We've beaten the league leaders of Austria and Poland and Basle and Feyernoord have reasonable European heritage as well. I fancy that beating Nancy before we play Reading is going to be important for Rovers' prospects of continued progress. Why has your season started so indifferently? When Charlton scored in the 94th minute last night we were missing Nelsen (detatched hamstring; one of the best in the Prem and responsible for at least 6 points with goal saving tackles last season), Reid (broken back; revelation second half of last season), Roberts (broken metatarsal; summer's most expensive signing), Kizanishvilli and Jeffers (both groin injuries), Emerton (hamstring gone), Pederson (finally out with broken rib) and Bentley (kicked to pieces by Fulham). Henchoz only played after a late fitness test and Neill and McCarthy are both well less than 100% fit. Some real muppet refereeing going against us and missing all three penalties we've been awarded hasn't helped either. However, the key factor is the loss of Bellamy- we know longer have anyone who scares the opposition and takes two opposing players to watch him creating space for everyone else. Injuries and suspensions have disrupted our usual high tempo accurate passing game. Who has performed above expectations for your team? And who not? Emerton has beaten all expectations. Ooijer has come good after a shaky start, Bentley continues to look great in patches, McCarthy slotting them reliably until missing some sitters in recent games. The two greats- Friedel and Tugay have been performing at or near their very best. Savage has not been as imposing as he can be, Pederson's confidence is shot to non-existant. Why do you not sell out the ground? Tell you what, halve the population of Reading, halve the income of the ones left, stick a Premiership club in Henley, another in Wokingham, move Man U and Man City to Maidenhead, Liverpool and Everton to Slough and promote Pangbourne into League 2 and tell me why Reading don't sell out the Madejski. What do you think of Reading? Delighted for you. I think you are in the Premiership to stay. Coppell coming good after a long and painful management apprenticeship. Score Prediction? I was there when you beat us 4-0 at Elm Park. You might repeat that scoreline. Any finally - tell me some Interesting fact about your club? The only club in the world still to have won major trophies in the nineteenth, twentieth and twenty first centuries.

When the deal was signed, the Rovers management were reported at being elated by the amount they were getting for the club from SWI. I wonder if SWI paid for a "non-interference" clause from Rovers? If that is the case, Rovers won't breathe a word of complaint/suggestion as I would imagine SWI are not exactly quids in on the deal and could be looking for any opportunity to break the contract legitimately.

Stevens asks for yet more time. It seems that a bust agency (they must have been bad!), Allardyce and the Earnshaw transfer are attracting a lot of attention.

You are right Roverite. Year in year out we went to the Valley, played well, they played badly and we lost. Sparky has cut out some of the stupid defeats but we are going to have to fight very very hard to win this one.

This is a huge challenge now- Charlton welcome three players back from injury and a look at the table this morning tells us all we need to know about Les Read's team talks. - Charlton's most important game this decade etc etc. Rovers with 6 out through injury. Even so a line-up of Friedel, Emerton, Ooijer, Neill, Gray, Bentley, Tugay, Savage, MGP, McCarthy, Nonda; subs Brown, Todd, Gally, Peter, Mokoena doesn't look too bad. Derbyshire and McEveley still don't make the bench.

The biggest beneficiary under the scheme I suggested would be Rovers fans as we already have the cheapest tickets.

So a rumour on the Kop is serious is it? Don't be daft. I am being serious- Liverpool are being sold to DIC. I have plenty of contacts there so I can find out whether they are going to keep Rafa or not with far more chance of reality than the gossips of the Kop. Quite honestly, my guess is that Rafa is safe. He only won the European Cup for you and Liverpool are sitting pretty in the PL league table for a second half push for 3rd or 4th.

My gut feel is that with the foreign money men having come into the game to make money, there will be much tighter control over wages than in the past- this is happening with recent surveys showing a dramatic reduction in wage increases. The PL is already the most powerful league financially so apart from Chelsea, Arsenal and Mancs going toe-to-toe with AC, Barca and Real there isn't any external competitive push on wages. If the PL is sensible, the smaller clubs will get a modest change to distribution favouring themselves and particularly the relegated clubs. The PL has a 14 vote one club one vote rule so this should be possible. A move like this will hopefully take away some of the massive fear factor that exists within the Premiership now and hopefully reverse the current collapse in goal scoring. Secondly, all except the London and CL-type clubs should take advantage of the new broadcasting windfall next season and seriously cut ticket prices. A PL initiative to reduce prices by 25% or more has to be the way forwards to offset the massive disincentive of games no longer being habituated on Saturdays at 3pm. Next season, BT will be broadcasting the Setanta rights as well as 75% of all other games on delay. The balance has got to be tipped back to the fan in the stadium, particularly the travelling fans who create the atmosphere in all seater stadia. The PL has to incentivise away fans. Perhaps a rule should be introduced whereby the tickets for visiting fans should be made available at the price those fans pay for home matches if distributed by the visiting club on a membership or season ticket basis.

They are being sold to Dubai so they'll probably get a camel trainer.

When we had been relegated back in 1966, Everton away was the only first division draw we ever seemed to get in the FA Cup. Certainly remember a 3-0 defeat and a 2-0 defeat at Goodison.

This campaign against Mokoena is sheer sturrocking stupid. The guy will not be on a fortune, he does have physical presence, he can disrupt the opposition, passes don't go forwards but he usually plays a good out ball along the line, the pace of the Prem doesn't phase him, he seems to be a very professional individual, he doesn't cause problems when he is displaced, he has got big match international experience - in short he is ideal material to have at a club of Rovers size and means. No doubt if Sparky signs the players he is targetting, the Axe will be 20th in a 24 man squad but a player like Aaron is needed. It is a squad game these days.

Well they seem to have started...

Just out of interest, anyone know why the draw was not allowed to be broadcast on the internet? Real toss-up as to who will progress from Everton v Rovers. Some oter tasty ties around as well.

The only thing that is falling faster than the number of bums on seats is the balls in nets.

To keep them both happy- rover6 actually wants MGP in the Axe role.

If we'd lost today, we could have said good bye to pretensions about European football next season. As it is we are 9 points off fourth with two games in hand. If we beat Charlton and Newcastle, we can sleep easy with regards to relegation worries.

Henchoz replaces Zura. Neill to RB Emerton back to RW Bentley to centre mid. Fulham are big so and sos - bit concerned that Bentley and MGP might get squashed.