The only thing that is falling faster than the number of bums on seats is the balls in nets.

To keep them both happy- rover6 actually wants MGP in the Axe role.

If we'd lost today, we could have said good bye to pretensions about European football next season. As it is we are 9 points off fourth with two games in hand. If we beat Charlton and Newcastle, we can sleep easy with regards to relegation worries.

Henchoz replaces Zura. Neill to RB Emerton back to RW Bentley to centre mid. Fulham are big so and sos - bit concerned that Bentley and MGP might get squashed.

So you reckon the Mancs will move for Dunn then 'drogy? Got a feeling that Larsson could be new Cantona for the Mancs. Bit old for drop kicking Palace supporters but could be as talismatic.

Probably get a nightmare draw like Pompey away- no money and little chance of progress. One or two fizzy pop league away fixtures could be uncomfortable- Norwich or Derby away for instance.

What's with all these squiggles these days? 1 home and 3 away for me.

It seems that Zurab and Jeffers are out, not doubts. Suspect Hughes will go for Henchoz replacing Zurab and Neill to replace Gray and no changes elsewhere. Gally to be on the bench and to get at least 20 minutes in place of Nonda if we are not winning by then.

I feel sorry for decent Feyernoord fans like SCF08 but UEFA have to act. The prospect of a Feternoord v Krakow game deciding which of those two qualify sounds like a recipe for a disaster in terms of crowd problems. Even more credit is due to the Rovers' travelling support for not getting into any trouble in either Krakow or Rotterdam. With one round of games to go, Rovers' opponents in the round of 32 will be: If we beat Nancy, the following are in 3rd place in the UEFA Groups- Auxerre (Livorno or Partizan Belgrade could go 3rd) Besiktas (Leverkusen a long shot to overtake them) Liberec (Braga also a long shot for 3rd) Osasuna (or Lens or Odense if someone else gets a stuffing) Ajax (or Zulte-Waregem if Ajax beat them in the decider in Amsterdam) Rapid Bucarest (this one is wide open as Hapoel, Mlada or PSG could come 3rd) Fenerbahce (another day of destiny as Celta, Palermo or Frankfurt could come 3rd) If we don't beat Nancy, the following are in 3rd place in the CL Groups- Barcelona (Werder will drop to 3rd only if beaten by Barca in their last game) Sporting Lisbon (Spartak Moscow a long shot to overtake them) Bordeaux (an exceptional scoring feat needed from Galatasaray to dislodge them) Shakhtar Donetsk (Olypiacos hanging on by a thread) Steau Bucharest (again all but certain to prevail over Dynamo Kiev) CSKA Moscow (will probably overtake either Porto or Arsenal and Rovers cannot be drawn against the Arsenal) Lille (or Anderlecht or AEK) Benfica (or possibly Man U whom we cannot play or a long shot Copenhagen)

If that is true SCF, Nancy broke UEFA rules and could be in hot water as well. Is there any footage of who was lobbing the tear gas? Questions will be asked if Nancy did not communicate with the UEFA officials before the police started tear gassing the crowd. However, Feyernoord are looking at a massive fine and ban: - history of trouble - previous bans - Pedersen incident to be considered - Pre-match riot in Nancy - events during the game. The Nancy supporters all behaving themselves makes it even tougher for Feyernoord because there was zero provocation apart from being on the wrong end of a right thrashing on the pitch.

Damn, we could have done with that penalty going in. Unfortunately, the Feyernoord fans rioted in Nancy before the game as well. If the jumpy Gendarmerie fired the teargas whilst the game was in progress, it might be less clearcut about what will happen. However, as they are playing again, I guess what the score is when they finish is what will stand.

I was referring to the round of 32 as I was answering a point about Rovers coming 2nd being OK. You are right that the CL clubs got wiped out in later rounds but in the 2nd place v CL exiled games in the round of 32, only Levski prevailed against Artmedia. Anyway, Nancy's game has been abandonned. No doubt Feyernoord will be entertaining Krakow in an empty stadium on 13 December but the 3-0 scoreline will be allowed to stand from tonight. The official table is showing Rovers top and Nancy as having only played two games at the moment. Barca have to beat Werder Bremen next week to avoid dropping into the UEFA. Werder were good enough to beat a determined decent strength Chelsea whilst Barca will still be injury-hit.

Like Barca? I think only one UEFA team has beaten a CL exile in the last two seasons! Worth putting the events in Nancy in context- Feyernoord have taken some real stuffings in the Dutch league this season. Ajax who did them 4-0 at de Kuyp are currently losing at home to Espanyol but should still limp into the last 32.

Dead right- you are off topic but here is the all time definitive answer.

With tonight's games about to kick off, a win for Nancy by 3 or more would be seriously bad news- we'd need to win against them to stay top of the Group. If Feyernoord win, then a win by Krakow would mean that Feyernoord's game against them in the last round would have some competitive edge to it as Krakow would need a result in Rotterdam to qualify. If Basle and Feyernoord win tonight then Rovers, Nancy and Feyernoord have qualified with just the Rovers v Nancy game to decide the 1, 2, 3 order.

I am surprised the home defeat by Coventry in 1967 with the Ferguson sending off hasn't featured although no way would our return to the top flight have been a long one. The most intriguing one to have reversed would be the 2-0 defeat to Swansea at the Vetch in 1981. Quite apart from taking the swagger out of Leighton James, I just wonder if we'd taken the second promotion on the trot if we might have manged to stay there. Certainly Kendall would have left for Everton regardless but I guess we would have kept Jim Arnold and found a strike partner for Garner who was better than Viv Busby. And Swansea remember spent most of the 81/2 season in top or second places in the old First Division finishing a very creditable 4th. Although we were still in the era of English club domination of Europe, I rather think we would have held our own in the top division had we gone up then but wouldn't have done had we won at Palace in '89.

With four Prem clubs scrapping over Neill's signature allegedly, it will be very interesting to see what happens with the fee. Rovers have shown they are willing to brazen it out to the end of the contract so paying us for the January transfer seems to be a pre-requisite for an early release. Ordinarilly, his price would be discounted to an eigth of his true transfer worth with just six months of a four year contract left. So if his market value is £5m (quite possibly), then we could expect £750K ish at most. However, Newcastle have to save their necks from relegation (a cost of £20m at least), Villa and Liverpool have 3rd/4th to dream about and a £10m CL pay-out next season not forgetting £500K a place prize money whilst Chelski have the dosh to do what they want if winning a third Prem on the trot is important to them. In those circumstances, if these clubs see Neill as a key element in their ambitions for this season then a £2m+ transfer fee is a possibility and an absolute certainty if more than one club comes bidding with determination. With Neill cup-tied for European competition, the likes of Barca and AC (if these were ever serious in the first place) are probably priced straight out of it by the Prem's vastly greater rewards. Perhaps not taking £2m on 31 August will prove to be a smart move after all. I hope Chelski are in for Neill and we can trade for Bridge.

Excellent stuff Bob. Please keep it going- you make the passing of the months much more bearable.

12 Fulham 14 -6 17 13 Middlesbrough 14 -6 16 14 Man City 14 -6 16 15 West Ham 14 -6 14 16 Blackburn 13 -6 13 17 Newcastle 14 -6 13 18 Sheff Utd 15 -10 13 19 Watford 14 -10 9 20 Charlton 14 -11 9 I won't comment further until we are 17th (or lower).

Revealed: Vinjay is front man for Icelandic biscuit baker. (or some equivalent...)

Tugay is one of Rovers' all time greats. A player of seeming infinite skill. Hughes and his team are clearly working miracles on his 36 year old body and Toogs is playing with a vigour and freshness not seen for a long time. I hope Tugay goes on forever, or at least until he is 40, but compatriate Basturk might be the man to fill Toog's boots. I know this is Tugay's thread but watch this:

OK they both run fast but Bellamy has a footballing brain (just about all he has got though). Anyway, the club are not linked with SWP and so it is a pretty academic discussion.

Bob can put his feet up and his pen down. Vinjay has written the November review for him. I'm sure those of us who have the occasional peep at our unfortunate neighbours would be rolling in the aisles Ste if you copied and pasted this stuff to the Clarets Mad website. Seriously, anyone ever met this guy and lived to tell the tale?

Great rant by Henderson and he is right to talk about tradition. I think I am correct that at the moment Chelsea still rank below the Rovers in terms of honours won. However, Kenyon's boast/aim is in terms of biggest brand in football, not best trophy cabinet. On that basis, Chelsea's progress is far more impressive than I would have expected. They are already well up the top ten in the world by income and their "supporter" base at 5 million is an extraordinary achievement in such a short period of time. The nintendo club for the nintendo generation. Both the Mancs and Chelski will probably overtake Real Madrid in 2007/8.

SWP is so much a shadow of his former self, I now hope to see his name on the team sheet against us. WHammers are reportedly starting the bidding at £10m. Chelsea are writing down £21m over four years aren't they?- they won't sell for under eight figures at the moment. Duff's £17m transfer had been written down by three quarters when he went to Newcastle on a knock-down deal. The main reason why Duffer is a bar code is that Newcastle are the only non-big four club not blinking at paying £5m+ pa to individual players. The issue on all ex-Chelski players are not so much their transfer fees but their wages which are way outside of the Rovers' structure. If Chelski's very real need for a right back means that their reported interest in Neill is concrete then Rovers might get a deal to bring Bridge in the opposite direction. But SWP- I don't see it.