Andre on his Drogba introduction to the Prem. Good to read he feels he has more to come for the Rovers.

The quality of post-match discussion is going through one of those periodic lows. We seem to have a bunch of ill-informed knee jerkers on here at the moment irrespective of win, lose or draw.

I watched the game live from the 30th minute. At that point in the first half we were playing very well and looking the better team. I can only guess the part I missed had been all Villa but they seem to have had no clear serious chances whereas Bentley did have two clear shots on goal from 25 yards between the 30th and 40th minute, neither of which were testing. When the penalty decision came, it was not only outragously harsh but totally against the run of play for the time I'd been watching the game. If that was a penalty then the challenge on Gamst four minutes earlier was a penalty and the handball by Petrov from Gamst's free kick in the second half was a clearcut penalty in any game- not just one where the linos have been at the claret and blue happy juice. Zura just made a horrible hash of it for Angel's goal and Friedel was caught slightly wrong for it as well. Overall- Gray played well - the defense coped well - Neill had a relatively poor one in my view, his distribution was iffy as was his positioning - Axe was OK and not bad but not good either - Gamst was clueless when Peter came on and spoilt an otherwise much improved performance - Villa were big and strong (good decision by MO'N to play the tall Sutton); we lost it by being the smaller side if anything - we won nothing in the air up front - Jeffers woeful failure to control that peach of a cross from Bentley certainly cost us a goal; Benni would have controlled and buried that one if he'd still been on - in the final analysis, we were beaten by 14 men. Another bad set of officiating against us. A lot of excessive nonsense being written on here. We have a bad injury list yet were still at the races in this game. The board backed Hughes in the summer when you look at the targets we went for - we were first off the blocks for Gudjonsson remember. The clubs doing poorly this season are the ones where there is excessive rotation of players- Hughes has to balance the injury and suspension disruptions with the need to rest and refresh and atthemoment he's getting quite enough enforced rotation. The table will look terrible after the Manc game but not every week-end will throw up so many unexpected results as this one so that 4 point gap to bottom won't be breached so quickly. On the other hand, we've lost 5 out of 11 yet are still only 8 points off 3rd. December is going to be a massive month for us if you look at the fixtures and hope for no more injuries and suspensions.

Huge test for Huges. Maybe he will out-think O'Neill and expose Villa to be not as good as O'Neill has made them. Perhaps Villa's penchant for draws continues. In reality our injury hit squad's shortcomings will get exposed and we'll lose this 4-1. The gap between 8 points and 12 is going to look awfully small come 4pm GMT.

The capacity of De Kuip is 51,100 so if Feyernoord are only expecting 40,000, sounds like there will be plenty of space if Rovers sell out their 2,500 allocation.

And it was the Full Members- a totally different competition. The challenge for the club is to find out just where the ticket prices should be. The current pricing seems to be beginning to work and I really hope there is a sign of momentum in the gates with more home supporters in tomorrow night than there were for Salzburg. If that isn't the case then why bother with the reductions? I have long felt that at Premier League level, the model would evolve towards the German model of low ticket prices (outside of the Mancs, Arsenal and Chelsea whom seem to be able to sting the glory hunters any which way they chose) backed by growing media revenues. That certainly is the opportunity for the 2007/8 season. However, three relegated clubs will face a triple whammy of having a cost base too high for their new humble surrounds, drop of media revenue AND having to put their prices up to drive more income through the gate. Leeds' gates are currently a disgrace for a club with their catchment area but Ken Bates' sky high prices are still putting more revenue into the club than he could be sure of getting with lower prices. When a club is/has been in the mess Leeds has been, certainty of revenue is critical. Wonder whether publicity Pete will dare go to Elland Road when Cardiff are the visitors?

Good post Scotty- well balanced analysis. This is David Pleat's "Chalk board" which shows that Rovers really should have got something out of that game. We would have done had Mokoena made an effort to put a routine defensive header on a ball chipped towards him instead of buying Sherringham's feinted run which set-up the free header with plenty of momentum behind it for the first goal.

At this stage, we don't know if any of MGP, Nonda, Emerton or Savage will be fit on Thursday. We know for sure that Reid, Nelsen and Roberts are out. Even if we are missing all seven, at least the subs bench will not be as embarassing as the subs Ray Harford was naming for the CL games back in 95/6. If we think in terms of Basel being the equivalent of a mid-ranking Prem team at best, assuming Hughes has done his prozone homework on them, we should still be slight favourites even with seven players out. In comparisson, playing Villa with none of our injured players back spells a routine defeat unless we have some of the fortune which was missing at Upton Park.

West Ham have had their lucky afternoon against us- when we see the stats for the game we will see how lucky. We were in no difficulty whatsoever until the Axe decided to defend a Sheringham run by crouching behind him. As has been said that was no corner for the Mullins goal which copuld well have been an og if you watch the replay from the other side camera. Peter doesn't convince me- he skinned Spector in the first minute then didn't beat a player for the rest of the game. Brilliant tackle in the box on 44th minute though. Gray not good, Gally looked OK, Jay was shaky. Any more injuries now and we are going to be looking a bit rocky with Nelsen and Reid out long term if Sav, Emo, MGP and Roberts don't get better. I thought Bentley looked short of being 100% fit today. Up front we were too elaborate and ponderous. This lot needed shooting against on sight but we were passing it all over the place- usually to a Whammer eventually. The Benni disallowed goal looked a very marginal decision on the replay by the way. Above all, we missed Sav. No way would we have lost that game had he been playing.

I see a slightly @#/?ised version of the Burns Report got voted through by the FA Council despite the professional games' representatives abstaining when the full report's recommendations got changed.

Surprise, surprise, the Italian Olympic Appeals Court (whatever that is) decided to reduce the points hits for three of the dirty four. Berlusconi who is up for fraud this week with Tessa Jowell's husband is obviously too weak to save AC's skin so their 8 point deduction stands but Lazio drops to a paltry 3 points penalty and Juve now have a sporting chance of promotion unlike Genoa who did not institutionally corrupt the entire Serie A but dropped into Serie C. A Maltese perspective taken from the Maltastar web site says it all: A joke called Serie A The mystery of the Italian fan's motivation Alan Zammit 28 October 2006 When a business does a gaffe, people related to it panic. When Coca Cola in the 80s went out with the New Coke it did one big business joke. You could see them panic and worrying about the implications. This attempt by Coca Cola became the joke of the year. But it phased out, because when this thing happens once, people easily forget and the solidity of the business returns. But when you see what is happening in Italy, the Serie A to be precise, it’s a bit pushing the patience to the limit. Football in Italy is something religious. Football in Italy stands there with Pope John, Ferrari, spaghetti and Valentino Rossi in the Italian hearts. It’s something essentially vital in the people’s lives. So when the Italian fanatic woke up in a bright May morning to know that football is more corrupted that all their politicians put together in one basket and that they were just a bunch of puppets to go to watch a couple of fixed games.... well the reaction would never have been friendly. The story started some time ago when political parties were changing seats in Italy, which means the Mafia boss Provenzano can now be caught and Italian football can be ‘cleaned’. Juventus were always thought to be ‘preferred’ by the referees. But then again, everywhere in the world there is a team where people say they are preferred when reality shows they are in fact not. But when you see what has been going on, with ‘Il Padrino’ Moggi controlling everything that moves in the Serie A, you sort of feel for the fans that religiously every Sunday give their support. Imagine yourself, spending days and days travelling in blistering sun and freezing winters to go watch your team at the other side of Italy with the result already decided by a rich millionaire in Turin. And yet, the Italians still go. I know the attendances are not the highest, but it’s amazing. They have been thrown everything in their faces and yet still… they go on a Sunday. Points were deducted, Juventus play against Frosinone now… and with their points shrinking down every few weeks. It started with 30, then they appealed and became 17 and now 9. It’s a joke because Juventus earlier this week were lounging in the 20th place, now with a decision by a judge they are 12th. That is sheer lunacy. Italian football it seems is decided in the brown tables of the law courts rather than on a green pitch. Milan were also deducted points and incredibly enough, they were decreased enough points so they can compete in the Champions League. Luck huh? Earlier this week Siena were deducted one point because of accounting trouble. So there you are Giuseppe, watching and jumping hysterically as Siena historically snatch a point at the might San Siro against Milan and then an old man at the law courts tells you that point won’t count because Siena’s accountant didn’t send the tax reports early enough. Adding to that, Inter are the current Italian champions, even though last year they came third. Obviously, they won it by a court ruling. How pathetic is that?

I am pretty certain I've seen Rovers playing in their red and black away kit at Ewood but I am struggling to remember when. Did they play in it against Lyon? Also I have a feeling an away tie got switched to Ewood in the domestic cups and Rovers played in their away strip. Back to Basel- they won their second successive game yesterday beating leaders Grasshoppers 2-1 away (2-0 at half time).

I saw some of their 3-1 win over Schalke. Nancy looked very slick and won despite having a ref who was clearly biased towards the Germans as the 6-1 card count against Nancy showed. IMO, these guys are the biggest threat in our Group and Rovers are fortunate not to be travelling away to them.

On Thursday, we welcome the Swiss team from the town that speaks German with the airport in France. Rovers will be playing in red as the opponents are in their home strip of red and blue stripes which used to be red and blue halves (very QEGS). This is our second match of four in the Group Stage but a win for Rovers and the right result elsewhere can achieve qualification for the next round from this game! So all is clear and logical. Basel are now the big club of Swiss football as eleven Championships and seven Cup wins more or less all within the last 50 years indicate. Their St Jakob Park Stadium holds just over 30,000 but is being increased to 40,000+ for the European Nations Cup Finals so for England-followers this game is about as close to that event as we are likely to get. Basel kicked off this season with two very impressive home gates of 0. The 'drog wrote long diatribes about forming Switzerland United, SG194 said it was disgusting but surprisingly nobody blamed the ticket prices as there weren't any. You see Basel's 59 match home unbeaten run came to a crushing end when FC Zurich scored in the last minute of the last game to secure the 2005/6 Swiss Championship away at Basel who would otherwise have been Champions themselves. The ever-sporting FCB (Football Club Basel) fans took the defeat in good grace except for a few thousand who ran onto the pitch to break-up Zurich's celebration. They let off rockets directed at Zurich players missing from a few feet away, got into general direct physical confrontation with opposition players with the predictable results outcome of boozed-up morons being kicked senseless by professional athletes having to fight for their lives and generally entered into the spirit of celebrating Zurich's title achievement (not). A SFR80,000 fine and two "ghost" matches later and Basel are in pretty sorry shape having played 11 won 5 drawn 1 lost 5 so far in the Swiss Super League. That leaves them stranded in mid-table way off the pace of the top three. An away trip to table-topping Grasshoppers today could have got them acclimatised to playing blue and white halves but a cunning piece of UEFA chicanery means the home side plays in the away strip if the kits clash so they won't even have that advantage over us. So to the Basel team. They are managed by Christian Gross who looked completely at home in his brief unhappy sojourn at White Hart Lane and didn't win anything whilst the Rovers did!!! Yes, the Manager is the only Basel player I'd ever heard of and I'll be quite happy for it to stay that way come Friday morning. For novelty value, there is an Australian male stripper who plays for them which should get the girlies snapping up the Rovers' cheap ticket offer. This is the first European game for Rovers in this campaign against a team not top of their league. Neither were Trelleborgs, Lyons, Gencler, Legia, Spartak etc when we played them either but Rosenborg were top of the Norwegian League when Mike Newell wrote himself into the CL record books. Yes, I guess this one comes with a major Euro banana skin warning.

An early offering but the Grauniad not only wrote about French football but profiled our December opponents. The game against Nancy could be one of the most attractive footballing encounters of the season and may well be the decider for Group top spot. I certainly hope that qualification from the Group stage is wrapped up before we face them.

Debate on the fall in Serie A attendances. Serie A average now barely half that of the Premiership despite four clubs plying their trade in 60,000+ capacity stadiums (five if Turin play in the Alpe) and Fiorentina still pulling 40,000+. The German example has to be the way to go but given the boozed up moron problem I cannot see alcohol being allowed within view of the pitch in England any time soon. Interesting to note that nobody, but nobody anywhere near a top league in Europe has to my knowledge gone down the route of combining clubs to achieve success unless the creation of PSG can be claimed as such. Of course, in England, we have the notable achievements of Dagenham and Redbridge and Rushden and Diamonds, one of whom might build enough tradition to make it into the Premiership for the 2107/8 season.....

Well said Colin. Back to the Gate Debate and Waddle has waded in with a typically misinformed opinion. From what I have seen of the Premiership this season, the number of entertaining games has increased compared with last season which contained a lot of truly dire encounters. If Waddle wants to finger a boring club, he should look at Bolton and clubs with small gates should highlight Watford.

I hope Sparky did and runs the tape in the dressing room at Upton Park round about 3.45 on Sunday.

Going back in time, David Mail was a truly reliable penalty taker. I don't think he ever missed one. Shearer was awesome except when up against Grobelaar who saved every penalty Shearer ever took against him (Liverpool and Southampton). We had one miserable season in the '80s when I remember we missed 10 penalties including a truly horrible effort at the Goldstone Ground which nearly ended in the road behind the open end. The huge former City keeper was in the net (cannot his name at the moment- was it Joe Corrigan?) and Garner slightly over-compensated to get the ball past him from the quagmire they'd had to measure up to repaint the penalty spot.

This will either be a thumping win for Rovers totally demoralising the WHammers or we'll get beaten. We have the forwards to do the damage but without Savage I think the midfield won't have enough posession to make things happen and the West Ham midfield and forwards will discover there is fun inlife after all. West Ham 3 Rovers 1- we'll need to get a two goal cushion to avoid defeat.

Obviously I will be shot at dawn for this: 1. From a full strength squad; Brad, Emerton, Nelsen, Reid, Benni would be a pretty unbeatable combination for speed, resilience, creativity and fitness. The non-contact aspect of 5 aside would make Sav useless. 2. Benni (goal every other game), Bentley and Emerton (great improvements), Ooijer and Zura (looking such a class central defensive partnership now that nobody is bewailing the absence of Todd or Nelsen). Savage has played some of the most effective games since we signed him and Tugay is enjoying his fourth or fifth Indian summer. On the downside, MGP has been off the boil and there has to be a nagging worry about Neill at left back. 3. Opening fixtures of Pompey away, Everton home, Chelsea home didn't look too tough on paper but look where those three are in the table now. Add to that a central defence finding its bearings and four new strikers so it is not surprising it took a bit to get into our stride. The reality is that Rovers have been putting in top 6 performances now for 18 months- we had to be that good to get ourselves up from relegation Souey soup to mid-table safety at the end of Hughes' first season so current form is more a case of normal service resumed. 4. ProZone is perfect and Mark Hughes and backroom team are nearly perfect. 5. Benni/Nando starting with Roberts coming on from the bench to be a superior version of Kuqi (but without the goals so far) seems to be Sparky's preference and working pretty well. Jeffers has looked promising when given a go.

Mr jansenpresty is willing to take on all comers' bets that Savage will be playing on Sunday. Any takers?

I agree with your first paragraph - it is really sad that these people are associating themselves with the Rovers when previous ventures into Europe by the club have not been blighted. As for the white trailer trash bit - does the colour of the skin have any relevance? Why use that Americanism in this context?

Calm down- Rovers played well and dominated for long periods. The two penalties were weak efforts though.

The Observer and Guardian bloggers join in the Rovers' gate debate.