Like Barca? I think only one UEFA team has beaten a CL exile in the last two seasons! Worth putting the events in Nancy in context- Feyernoord have taken some real stuffings in the Dutch league this season. Ajax who did them 4-0 at de Kuyp are currently losing at home to Espanyol but should still limp into the last 32.

Dead right- you are off topic but here is the all time definitive answer.

With tonight's games about to kick off, a win for Nancy by 3 or more would be seriously bad news- we'd need to win against them to stay top of the Group. If Feyernoord win, then a win by Krakow would mean that Feyernoord's game against them in the last round would have some competitive edge to it as Krakow would need a result in Rotterdam to qualify. If Basle and Feyernoord win tonight then Rovers, Nancy and Feyernoord have qualified with just the Rovers v Nancy game to decide the 1, 2, 3 order.

I am surprised the home defeat by Coventry in 1967 with the Ferguson sending off hasn't featured although no way would our return to the top flight have been a long one. The most intriguing one to have reversed would be the 2-0 defeat to Swansea at the Vetch in 1981. Quite apart from taking the swagger out of Leighton James, I just wonder if we'd taken the second promotion on the trot if we might have manged to stay there. Certainly Kendall would have left for Everton regardless but I guess we would have kept Jim Arnold and found a strike partner for Garner who was better than Viv Busby. And Swansea remember spent most of the 81/2 season in top or second places in the old First Division finishing a very creditable 4th. Although we were still in the era of English club domination of Europe, I rather think we would have held our own in the top division had we gone up then but wouldn't have done had we won at Palace in '89.

With four Prem clubs scrapping over Neill's signature allegedly, it will be very interesting to see what happens with the fee. Rovers have shown they are willing to brazen it out to the end of the contract so paying us for the January transfer seems to be a pre-requisite for an early release. Ordinarilly, his price would be discounted to an eigth of his true transfer worth with just six months of a four year contract left. So if his market value is £5m (quite possibly), then we could expect £750K ish at most. However, Newcastle have to save their necks from relegation (a cost of £20m at least), Villa and Liverpool have 3rd/4th to dream about and a £10m CL pay-out next season not forgetting £500K a place prize money whilst Chelski have the dosh to do what they want if winning a third Prem on the trot is important to them. In those circumstances, if these clubs see Neill as a key element in their ambitions for this season then a £2m+ transfer fee is a possibility and an absolute certainty if more than one club comes bidding with determination. With Neill cup-tied for European competition, the likes of Barca and AC (if these were ever serious in the first place) are probably priced straight out of it by the Prem's vastly greater rewards. Perhaps not taking £2m on 31 August will prove to be a smart move after all. I hope Chelski are in for Neill and we can trade for Bridge.

Excellent stuff Bob. Please keep it going- you make the passing of the months much more bearable.

12 Fulham 14 -6 17 13 Middlesbrough 14 -6 16 14 Man City 14 -6 16 15 West Ham 14 -6 14 16 Blackburn 13 -6 13 17 Newcastle 14 -6 13 18 Sheff Utd 15 -10 13 19 Watford 14 -10 9 20 Charlton 14 -11 9 I won't comment further until we are 17th (or lower).

Revealed: Vinjay is front man for Icelandic biscuit baker. (or some equivalent...)

Tugay is one of Rovers' all time greats. A player of seeming infinite skill. Hughes and his team are clearly working miracles on his 36 year old body and Toogs is playing with a vigour and freshness not seen for a long time. I hope Tugay goes on forever, or at least until he is 40, but compatriate Basturk might be the man to fill Toog's boots. I know this is Tugay's thread but watch this:

OK they both run fast but Bellamy has a footballing brain (just about all he has got though). Anyway, the club are not linked with SWP and so it is a pretty academic discussion.

Bob can put his feet up and his pen down. Vinjay has written the November review for him. I'm sure those of us who have the occasional peep at our unfortunate neighbours would be rolling in the aisles Ste if you copied and pasted this stuff to the Clarets Mad website. Seriously, anyone ever met this guy and lived to tell the tale?

Great rant by Henderson and he is right to talk about tradition. I think I am correct that at the moment Chelsea still rank below the Rovers in terms of honours won. However, Kenyon's boast/aim is in terms of biggest brand in football, not best trophy cabinet. On that basis, Chelsea's progress is far more impressive than I would have expected. They are already well up the top ten in the world by income and their "supporter" base at 5 million is an extraordinary achievement in such a short period of time. The nintendo club for the nintendo generation. Both the Mancs and Chelski will probably overtake Real Madrid in 2007/8.

SWP is so much a shadow of his former self, I now hope to see his name on the team sheet against us. WHammers are reportedly starting the bidding at £10m. Chelsea are writing down £21m over four years aren't they?- they won't sell for under eight figures at the moment. Duff's £17m transfer had been written down by three quarters when he went to Newcastle on a knock-down deal. The main reason why Duffer is a bar code is that Newcastle are the only non-big four club not blinking at paying £5m+ pa to individual players. The issue on all ex-Chelski players are not so much their transfer fees but their wages which are way outside of the Rovers' structure. If Chelski's very real need for a right back means that their reported interest in Neill is concrete then Rovers might get a deal to bring Bridge in the opposite direction. But SWP- I don't see it.

There are any numbers of Reserve, Academy and Football League players being advocated by the same folks who are knocking the Axe. There is a massive gulf now between these other forms of football and the Premiership. The Axe can hack it in the Prem as Scotty says. All the other names being thrown into the ring are risks in comparison. I am sure that is why the focus has switched towards older players who have produced the goods consistently at international level or for less glamorous clubs in the Champions League. Probably the best guide that a player will not be a complete flop although Nonda is currently doing his best to confound this particular theory- he is here on loan so has not blown a hole in the transfer budget. I am not happy that extending the Axe is the better option at present but in the bigger picture, this is a very sensible move.

If we had the unlimitted resources of Chelsea, we would have a better squad player than the Axe. As it is we are not so blessed. The man can do a job in the Premiership, does it with good grace and in the general swing of things probably costs us less than most alternatives would.

credit www.newsnow.co.uk and roversmum who posted a link on the official site just before I posted here.

Nelsen says he's way ahead of recovery schedule in award acceptance speach.

If you want to play "what if" games, the 3rd placed clubs at present are: Livorno (nice seaside town in Tuscany - home of the Italian Communists) Bruges (very nice and we will get a warm welcome from Cercle fans) Liberec (party time but everyone will miss the train north from Prague to the Polish border) Odense (cold and wet) Ajax (no need to go to Rotterdam either) Rapid Bucarest (very cold and dodgy) Palermo (very dodgy but a fantastic city) The UEFA games this week will mean the tables will become much more settled. In our group, it is crunch time for Basle as they play their last game whilst Feyernoord can more or less forget about progress if they lose at Nancy. To repeat, the last 32 is drawn 3rd v 1st (second leg favouring clubs coming top) and 2nd v CL 3rd (second leg favouring the CL drop-outs). Draw arranged so clubs from the same country don't play each other and you cannot play clubs previously encountered in the Group stage. Draw for the two rounds after this one have no seeds and no protections.

11 points off 3rd with a game in hand. Champs League is a shoe in.

Lossiemouth are Highland League but BreCHIN City are in the Scottish League.

Dunfirmlimb Forfart Heart of Midlithuania

Webb was outstanding for the Manc v Chelski game.

There were some bad injuries in the Fulham v Reading game as well as the sending off which might help us in the coming fortnight. I'd like to see Jeffers start but please leave Bert where he is. I'd be tempted to play MGP on the right and Peter on the left- MGP at least is able to spot Gray's over-lapping runs so might play Bert in to devastating effect. Absolute must win but Fulham have come to Ewood and won very deservedly in two of their last three visits. A very nervous 2-1 to Rovers. We might well be 17th at start of play but very unlikely we would be in the relegation zone. Sheff U would need to win by 5 at Watford.

Great link ozzie. That is a such a wonderful gallery- have spent many happy hours there. I completely agree with thenodrog's post above. There is a big difference between boisterous cameraderie and ignorant boorishness which alienates everyone around.

Okkas' agent has said he is going to the Rovers for a trial 18 to 22 December and hopes to move in the january window.