Quite a bit of amateur dramatics in the last few posts. 1) The appreciation in the value of Stamford Bridge over what RA paid for Chelski means he could blow another £195m and still be in the black on the whole deal. There is the Cobham training ground worth a few bob as well which has been paid for out of those losses. In fact, were RA to walk away from Chelsea tomorrow, he'd probably have doubled his money and had a lot of fun doing it. 2) Having achieved what they have on the football field means that CFC are heading to being self-sustaining within the foreseeable future. Their Prem contract will be worth about 50% more next summer. 3) RA has re-cycled all the assets that made his money In Russia so there is nothing for Putin to take off him. He has kept the right side of Putin and far enough out of the way. The current exercise is almost self-invited to make himself more difficult for an increasingly confident Putin to go after. 4) Even if Putin does go for him, RA is well down the list of British passport holders whom Putin would like to see behind bars.

Yes, I thought most of the posts on this thread had a tenuous relationship with the facts as presented in public.

Some nice pictures here: http://www.kipax.com/

Jemal Johnson is not in the party of 27 flying out to Germany this afternoon. Some of the youngsters are though.

I thought it was rather sweet. After all, Uncle Jack got us the Premiership for all our birthdays one year.

Nice pictures Slater Scott. That looked like an undulating ploughed field surrounded by what must be the worst stadium in the Football League by some distance. Good practise in case we get drawn to go to Gretna in the UEFA Cup! I guess Roberts, Jeffers, Derbyshire is just about an ideal list of scorers for a 3-0 win in the first pre-season game. Hope Roberts is OK.

That was taken from the local Maltese paper. I have seen it reported that a separate Sporting Tribunal altogether will look at Udinese, Siena, Messina, Arezzo and Avellino and that Messina's reinstatement into Serie A (they were relegated last season) is very much in doubt. The Sporting Life article is completely unclear as to whether the two additional clubs are completely new to the scandal. The terms of reference of the Sporting Tribunal which handed down the relegations and points deductions was only seasons 2004/5 and 2005/6. Roberto Mancini of Internationale said publicly when the scandal broke that Juve had been match fixing since 2001. Presumably in the intervening period, his deposition has been taken and could well be in the 300 additional pages of material now being considered.

Update/correction. The appeals procedure starts on 22 July and is expected to conclude after the 29 July deadline for submitting European competition nominations. So assuming Empoli are let into the UEFA, that particular die is cast. All four clubs are appealing their sentences whilst the prosecutor is also appealing on the grounds of excess leniency. He wants AC in Serie B and Juve in Serie C.

Apart from the fact the Mancs have £500m more debt than would be allowed by the new UEFA regulations due to be introduced in 2008/9.

If the players and their agents like money, they will be in the Premiersahip. If they are all Italian lovers and patriotic philanthropists, they will stay in Italy. Juve taking a massive hit on TV rights: http://www.thesoccerforum.net/archives/93 There will be a lot of blame passing between Sky Executives and their lawyers at the moment!

Meanwhilst the view from the Maltese tifosi: http://www.timesofmalta.com/core/article.php?id=231074 If you think the Juve Supporters Club is big, the Manc Supporters Club is enormous. Still I've now found five Rovers supporters on the island- the latest was lying drunk at the Ferries in Sliema wearing the '95 Premiership shirt.

Its great to welcome Stanley back- I can remember them falling out of the League but never being in it. Being a Darrener, it always seemed fair dos that Accy had the same status as the Anchormen. Anyway, I'll just be glad to see the back of this one with no trouble in the ground or the town and no injuries to the players. Pre-season, sub 100% fitness, over-enthusiastic local clogger opposition- the odds on a Rover player being out for months after this one are distressingly high. Probably a poor match and a meaningless result. One of the two Rovers' sides will probably muster a win. Jeffers to be the new saviour or the most useless wearer of the shirt since McKinnon depending on how he handles the five to ten touches of the ball he gets.

The Mancs only have a short shopping list when they pop over to Turin: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/t...utd/5189828.stm A considered view of Juve, Lazio and Fiorentina's chances now: http://www.eurosport.com/football/serie-a/...sto927314.shtml The result of the Appeals is apparently expected tomorrow (Wednesday).

Nice little profile of Moggi: http://www.timesofmalta.com/core/article.php?id=231026

I completely agree- halves are the Rovers brand. Not having a halved away strip massively dilutes the visual impact of the Rovers brand. It is blindingly simply obvious but why are Rovers missing the point? If you look back at past video compilations of Premiership games, very often I haven't got a clue who the opposition were from their away strips. It will be the same with this years allover cherry strip for Rovers. Stick with halves home and away so whenever you see Rovers it is instantaneously recognisable as Rovers.

Galliani getting a one year ban is a massive decision that has been lost in all the other headlines- that's not just a member of staff (presumably you are thinking of the guy who got banned for 3.5 years), Galliani IS AC Milan if you know anything about how that club operated.

1) They don't get the Scudetto 2) They are completely out of Europe in 2006/7 assuming Empoli get sorted which both UEFA and FGIC have said they will. 3) They start with a 2006/7 points deduction which means they almost certainly won't win the Scudetto and based on most recent seasons would make sure they won't qualify for the CL in 2007/8 either. So that's probably a minimum £20m income wiped out over the next two seasons. pointless???

Just to help- there are 42 games which means a max of 126 points in Serie B. Offsetting the 30 points penalty, going by last season, they'd need 117 points for automatic promtion, 96 points for a play-off place and 75 points would see them relegated (9 points more than the team finishing 6th got last time). There are Lazio and Fiorentina kicking around in that league as well next season...

So unlike me, you agree with Juve Manager Deschamps and think that relegation to Serie C at the end of next season is quite probable then?

Let's just say UEFA will be watching this every bit as closely as they watched the Italian Sporting Tribunal. The normal punishment for transfer irregularities has been a domestic and international ban on incoming transfers. It needs to be very serious for additional action to be taken but I don't believe for a moment that Lord Stevens dare allow even the slightest hint of Manc favouritism to tarnish his reputation. To the contrary, the way his Premiership contract/consultancy is set up, he will probably doing his utmost to nail RFW to boost his own profile. If proven, Her Majesty's Tax Inspectors and Police force are likely to be quite interested as well. I always suspected the over-rated RFW's reign would end in ignominy. Hurry up before Lippi gets another job.

Perhaps the comments which have emerged about RFW's influence and refs being intimidated at big clubs coupled with the Italian experience will result in a more robust approach from the refs this season. Then pigs might fly. Two developments - There are suggestions that Inter and Real might find that Chelsea, Arsenal, Mancs and Liverpool will get to the Serie A honeypot ahead of them. Perhaps the reason why the Mancs seem to be letting the Carrick transfer collapse is that they've seen a Kean replacement in Gattuso. AC have eyes on the UEFA Cup because the 44 point deduction leave them on 44, one point behind Empoli who are not licensed for European competition. As that license was withheld by Italian bureaucracy, it seems unlikely that the Italians/UEFA are not rectifying that situation pronto. We will see who will be right about this scandal impacting Rovers' summer transfer dealings or not.

I still think getting 96 points in Serie B is a massive ask for Juve for the reasons I've given above. Don't think they'll go down but the plans they make have to allow for a Serie C contingency. There is a chilling comment at the end of this Guardian article: http://football.guardian.co.uk/continental...1821168,00.html "It is a big business now and the big clubs can no longer leave winning to chance." That makes this not a uniquely Italian scandal. It reaches into UEFA (it was the telephone tap of a conversation about the appointment of Urs Meier for Juve v Ajax which triggered the investigation) but doesn't that statement sound very redolent of the Premiership? I still think the run of decisions favouring the Mancs against the Rovers is no accident- including three card trick's performance at OT this year in the League Cup semi-final.

You are confusing Australia with Madagascar. an easy mistake....

You are right Philly Rover- that is why I forecast that this was going to have a devastating impact on Serie A overall although AC not going down through lack of evidence (someone close to Berlusconi was efficient) doesn't make it the wipe out it could have been. Even so probably getting on for 25% of Serie A's turnover is now sitting in Serie B. Juve still retain their prawn sandwich supporters or in their case take home pizzas as nobody goes to watch their matches in the 70,000 Stade della Alpe anyway. So Juve's TV income will have a high floor through which it won't fall in terms of Juve's own TV station. However, are national and international broadcasters going to abandon Serie A just because Juve have two seasons of kick-ball in Serie B (assuming the 30 point deduction doesn't see them go down at the end of 2006/7)? I doubt it. Serie B gets minimal coverage in Italy never mind elsewhere. Next season at least, the games against Lazio and Fiorentina will be anything but formalities whilst you can imagine 16 Italian Burnleys relishing the prospect of kicking lumps out of them- 32 games where the opposition are playing David v Goliath cup tie football is not a pleasant prospect. So dropping to Serie C has to be a scenario the Juve finance director will have to have a contingency for which will constrain any planning for a rapid phoenix. And Juve are in reality at least three seasons away from European football where the other really big money is. And if G14 are true to their rules, Juve will be kicked out for being relegated. I suspect Juve's cost base is high enough for there to be real problems sustaining the club at a level where it could immediately become a force again three years from now. That is a long time for supporters to stay loyal especially as criminal processes which are open (as opposed to the closed Sporting Tribunal) are likely to start which will provide a continual drip of unsavoury revelations into the press. A lot of Juve's more distant support could well drift away under a constant barrage of shame.

Juve will lose most of their players for sure- they are not going to overcome a 30 point deduction to get promoted from Seriew B very easily when there are Lazio and Fiorentina keeping them company. Neither Fiorentina nor Lazio have the financial strength to withstand a season out of Serie A and at least two seasons out of Europe without dumping players. AC are not that good a prospect for "big club" players. Out of the CL next season and a 15 point deduction means making the CL for 2007/8 will be no formality. So who wants whom?